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Posted: 8/4/2010 9:49:20 AM EDT
| I just started reloading and did my first rounds yesterday. I bought Lee .223 dies and they come w/ 3 dies, the normal 2 and a crimping die. can somebody explain to me exactly what the crimping die does and if I need to do that extra step or not. thaks in advance |
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You don't really need to crimp as long as the bullet/neck tension is good.
The crimp is used when you load bullets that have the crimp grove only. They are the small serrated ring around some bullets. You do not crimp bullets that do not have that feature. EBR666 |
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You don't really need to crimp as long as the bullet/neck tension is good. The crimp is used when you load bullets that have the crimp grove only. They are the small serrated ring around some bullets. You do not crimp bullets that do not have that feature. EBR666 Not all together true. Bullets w/o a CANNALURE can, and often do, get crimpped. Perhaps not with the standard ROLL CRIMP, but a SLIGHT TAPER or FACTORY crimp (such as the LEE FC die) can and is often used. Many pistol bullets are a good example. One can debate the "crimp" -vs- "no crimp" issue to death. Like already said, if neck tension is good, a crimp may not be necessary. But it won't hurt to PROPERLY crimp a bullet w/o a cannalure I |
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Wrong(as stated above)
You still crimp bullets w/o cannelure grooves... depending on the application you might need a crimp if neck tension is not enough. If you don't believe me look at 45acp ball ammo... the 230gr FMJ doesn't have a cannelure nor do many pistol/rifle bullets. Mike. |
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You don't really need to crimp as long as the bullet/neck tension is good. The crimp is used when you load bullets that have the crimp grove only. They are the small serrated ring around some bullets. You do not crimp bullets that do not have that feature. EBR666 You can crimp a bullet without a cannalure or as you call it a crimp grove  . That said I no longer crimp .223 bullets. I used to but after testing some without the crimp I stopped because it was just another pull of the handle. I do take the finished round and push the nose of the bullet into the table to see if it pushes back into the case. So far I have never had one move. I would never talk someone out of crimping it's really up to you, and if you want to put the time in then crimp away.
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Wrong(as stated above) You still crimp bullets w/o cannelure grooves... depending on the application you might need a crimp if neck tension is not enough. If you don't believe me look at 45acp ball ammo... the 230gr FMJ doesn't have a cannelure nor do many pistol/rifle bullets. Mike. Please define crimp. Are you stating that 45acp needs more than just enough crimp to remove case bell or are you stating crimp needs to leave a groove or indentation in bullet ? Lead or plated the same ? Your post paints some broad strokes from rifle to pistol. Are you implying bolt gun rounds need crimp or can neck tension suffice ? |
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Wrong(as stated above) You still crimp bullets w/o cannelure grooves... depending on the application you might need a crimp if neck tension is not enough. If you don't believe me look at 45acp ball ammo... the 230gr FMJ doesn't have a cannelure nor do many pistol/rifle bullets. Mike. Please define crimp. Are you stating that 45acp needs more than just enough crimp to remove case bell or are you stating crimp needs to leave a groove or indentation in bullet ? Lead or plated the same ? Your post paints some broad strokes from rifle to pistol. Are you implying bolt gun rounds need crimp or can neck tension suffice ? A crimp is putting tension at the tip of the case to keep the bullet from being pushed back into the case when cycling in semi auto guns. You don't need to crimp for a bolt gun because you are manually loading it. |
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Please define crimp. Are you stating that 45acp needs more than just enough crimp to remove case bell or are you stating crimp needs to leave a groove or indentation in bullet ? Lead or plated the same ? Your post paints some broad strokes from rifle to pistol. Are you implying bolt gun rounds need crimp or can neck tension suffice ? Like said.. crimping is putting more neck tension on the bullet than just a plain case would provide.. how much depends on the application.. for my 308 I don't need any crimp... for 45colt I almost need to deform the bullet to hold it in. my 308 bolt gun... I don't crimp SMKs or any bullet for that gun... since I typically load them one at a time not out of the mag, and even out of the mag they are fine. On the other hand I have heard of people doing this for their semi autos 308s using SMKs and other non-cannelure bullets(whether its needed or not thats a different topic) My 45acp I reload mostly lead but I used to reload jacketed... I use the same amount of crimp for both... I never indented either bullet... but I put more on than just to remove the bell... 45acp they recommend the case mouth to measure .468-.470" and for copper 0.469-0.471.... I crimp mine to around 0.468" I have crimped less(just enough to remove the bell) and had my bullets move while being chambered. With 223, when I start loading I will crimp all of them for the start(maybe some day I'll stop) but IMHO its extra security especially if round number 20 in the mag decide to start moving and I don't find out until round 15 that I have a jammed mag or what not.. I will crimp cannelure bullets and when I start to load SMKs or w/e match bullet I'll put a very light crimp on it (enough not to dent the bullet) and I'll see how it goes. Like I said... it depends on the application... there is not genral rule of "its does/doesn't have a cannelure therefore you do/don't crimp" Mike. |
| .472 lead will need to be crimped in most cases. For jacketed lots of us apply no more crimp than necessary to close the bell to .471.If your having to swage your round to .468 you've got a gunsmithing issue that your trying to band-aid with too much crimp. I;d bet your spent cases are dirty and have accuracy issues. There are lots of guy here that DO NOT crimp their rifle rounds at all for semi auto and straight walled pistol like 45acp head spaces on the case mouth and do not require crimping past .471 to .472. |
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Quoted: .472 lead will need to be crimped in most cases. For jacketed lots of us apply no more crimp than necessary to close the bell to .471.If your having to swage your round to .468 you've got a gunsmithing issue that your trying to band-aid with too much crimp. I;d bet your spent cases are dirty and have accuracy issues. There are lots of guy here that DO NOT crimp their rifle rounds at all for semi auto and straight walled pistol like 45acp head spaces on the case mouth and do not require crimping past .471 to .472. Oh, Obi Wan, you've seen some of my <ahem> reloading challenges. Been cranking out the 45 ACP rounds on the new RL550B. Here's da 'ting- I'm a fan of crimping from the 5.56. I actually had an increase in accuracy using LEE FCD. Not much, but for varminting, every little bit counts. Anywho, I load the 45s on the Dillon, have been crimping to .471 using the Dillon crimp die. Do you find FCD to be the best? Weapon = SW1911PD. (Commander type.) Sometimes a round will FTF and when I remove said round, the bullet (230 gr FMJ RN) has been pushed back into the case far enough that it's past the ogive. Caveat- I tried a few this AM. One reload in a mag, lock slide, insert and release via slide release. Stoved them back sometimes up to .050. So I think to myself "self, try that on a factory round." American Eagle (always had good luck with AE) same test, set it back about .010. Any wisdom to share? Thanks in advance. |
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You can crimp a bullet without a cannalure or as you call it a crimp grove . Do you think if I said "cannalure" that this new to reloading would understand what I had said? Maybe I should have used the correct term and them given the book definition of what I meant. But I was short of time and took the short cut. Oh well. So I get the For trying to help a new loader.
EBR666 Edit to fix quoting. |
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You can crimp a bullet without a cannalure or as you call it a crimp grove . Do you think if I said "cannalure" that this new to reloading would understand what I had said? Maybe I should have used the correct term and them given the book definition of what I meant. But I was short of time and took the short cut. Oh well. So I get the For trying to help a new loader.
EBR666 Edit to fix quoting. Google: Cannalure Had he tried to look for bullets that have a crimp grove he might have had a hard time trying to locate them. Learning the terms is an important part to reloading. Sorry, I should have put the for you giving him incorrect information. Bullets without a cannalure can and sometimes should be crimped.
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FWIW, the term "crimp grove" is what Lee used to describe a cannalure in their official literature that comes with their dies. I have heard referred to as Crimp Groove by old timers and i mean when i was'nt one of them (way back)...But cannalure seems to be the most popular term. Also i love the factory crimp die for my .223 reloads for my AR's cannalure or not, fixing to do 45 cap and they will get it too. |
| When using the Lee FCD be careful not to crimp too hard. I learned the hard way that too much pressure can actually swag down the diameter of the bullet which has the negative result of reducing velocity and accuracy. The only thing I use then for now is auto pistol ammo. A roll crimp works much better for cannalured rounds. IMHO |
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