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Posted: 5/24/2010 10:38:09 AM EDT
| I have a couple of bottles of Unique and need to find some load data for use in .38, .38 spl, .357 and .45ACP. Any thoughts or links would be great. I have fond some info that says it is suitable for these calibers, but no solid load data. |
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According to Alliant it can be used in those calibers
Alliant load data I use it in .357 mag, 6 grains under a 158g LRNFP in my Vaquero and 1894 CB |
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I'm really tempted to lock every thread that starts like this unless the thread starter can show he has at least one printed manual and has made some effort to find load data. Especially in case like this one with a gunpowder in common, wide spread use and extremely easy to research.
That is mostly directed to the folks that have admitted they have no load data because it's available on the internet. |
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According to Alliant it can be used in those calibers Alliant load data I use it in .357 mag, 6 grains under a 158g LRNFP in my Vaquero and 1894 CB Perfect, thanks, I did not see the Hornady 140gr XTP bullets listed for the .357, but there were 140 gr Speer UCHP bullets listed @ 8grains. Would I use that load -10% or would I go even less? |
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I'm really tempted to lock every thread that starts like this unless the thread starter can show he has at least one printed manual and has made some effort to find load data. Especially in case like this one with a gunpowder in common, wide spread use and extremely easy to research. That is mostly directed to the folks that have admitted they have no load data because it's available on the internet. I did search "Loads using Unique powder" and I have a Hornady reloading manual and a Reloading magazine annual recipe edition (not sure of the exact name, its in the other room). I would rather ask a stupid question the do something stupid. Hell, I talked to everybody I cold for almost 2 years before I was even confident enough to even THINK about buying reloading equipment. I will admit to being a slightly paranoid reloading newb. |
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I'm really tempted to lock every thread that starts like this unless the thread starter can show he has at least one printed manual and has made some effort to find load data. Especially in case like this one with a gunpowder in common, wide spread use and extremely easy to research. That is mostly directed to the folks that have admitted they have no load data because it's available on the internet. I did search "Loads using Unique powder" and I have a Hornady reloading manual and a Reloading magazine annual recipe edition (not sure of the exact name, its in the other room). I would rather ask a stupid question the do something stupid. Hell, I talked to everybody I cold for almost 2 years before I was even confident enough to even THINK about buying reloading equipment. I will admit to being a slightly paranoid reloading newb. What does your manual show? What would you do without the internet to provide the information? |
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I'm really tempted to lock every thread that starts like this unless the thread starter can show he has at least one printed manual and has made some effort to find load data. Especially in case like this one with a gunpowder in common, wide spread use and extremely easy to research. That is mostly directed to the folks that have admitted they have no load data because it's available on the internet. I did search "Loads using Unique powder" and I have a Hornady reloading manual and a Reloading magazine annual recipe edition (not sure of the exact name, its in the other room). I would rather ask a stupid question the do something stupid. Hell, I talked to everybody I cold for almost 2 years before I was even confident enough to even THINK about buying reloading equipment. I will admit to being a slightly paranoid reloading newb. What does your manual show? What would you do without the internet to provide the information? Nothing on Unique, and I would do the same thing (just being going to the sporting gods stores instead of here), ask people who might know. ETA: If not for the internet and the info I have already gotten (mostly here) I would not have even had the confidence to even try reloading. Like I said, I am a little paranoid about doing something stupid and damaging me or the gun. I would rather look stupid (in my questions) then do something stupid. |
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Perfect, thanks, I did not see the Hornady 140gr XTP bullets listed for the .357, but there were 140 gr Speer UCHP bullets listed @ 8grains. Would I use that load -10% or would I go even less? I'd probably start at 7, but that's just me YMMV. I generally use data interchangebly on the same bullet weight as long as you're not near max and we're talking about the same bullet type, ie jacketed, lead, plated |
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ETA: If not for the internet and the info I have already gotten (mostly here) I would not have even had the confidence to even try reloading. Like I said, I am a little paranoid about doing something stupid and damaging me or the gun. I would rather look stupid (in my questions) then do something stupid. QFT |
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Unique is one of the most versatile handgun powders and easy to load and find data on. A good choice to learn with.
You might want to pick up a copy of Lyman #49 a great reloading manual full of Unique loads in every pistol caliber. It's a great read, and has lots of info for a new reloader. As a plus it's the manual to have if you load lead bullets. Also has jacketed bullet loads. |
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From your query -
.38: Don't know which cartridge you're inquiring about here, need more info .38 spl: Hornady #7, pages 815 - 821. Loads for every bullet weight. .357: for .357 Magnum, see Hornady #7 pages 826 and 827 for lead bullets .45 ACP: Hornady #7 pages 901 and 902 for lead bullets Alliant Load Data Alliant will send a pamphlet with their load data if you ask. |
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From your query - .38: Don't know which cartridge you're inquiring about here, need more info .38 spl: Hornady #7, pages 815 - 821. Loads for every bullet weight. .357: for .357 Magnum, see Hornady #7 pages 826 and 827 for lead bullets .45 ACP: Hornady #7 pages 901 and 902 for lead bullets Alliant Load Data Alliant will send a pamphlet with their load data if you ask. OK, I will be spending a lot of time on that site, thanks. I dug the book back out and see I missed a bit, (even having pointed out I almost missed it, I have a dyslexia/brain/comprehension thing. One reason I'm a bit paranoid about screwing up) and I will admit not looking to hard at the lead loads as I am loading jacketed. How well do the recipes for lead transfer to jacketed? I know I can read the website (and I will be) but I just have to be 100% sure I am doing things right before I do them, again it is just a side effect of my comprehension related problems causing me troubles in the past. ETA: I have another question. Looking at the site (.357 in this example) I see all the loads are for a 6" Bbl, do it leave the same or reduce the load for my 2" S&W? |
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Longer barrels create more pressure, shorter barrels less pressure. I'm going to tell a story on myself and if you can relate then own it and if you can't discard it. I can't read and retain what I've read for shit. I use composition books for notes and store all things that pertain to reloading, gunsmithing, and shooting in them. If it were not for those I would be lost in a virtual cloud. Information overload, too much information to process. So what I do is start down a trail and take notes along the way. One caliber and one load at a time. Anything more and I get distracted and the clouds soon have me fogged over. I highly suggest Lee's 2nd edition manual. Between your powder manufacturers website, using their load information I can pretty much determine my load and get an idea for O.A.L. Then I go to my Lee manual to back up the information from website and use Lee's information to make my final determination for O.A.L. Recently purchased Lyman's manual. One or the other but at least one of these two is essential. Why ? They aren't proprietary to bullets. Both cover a wide range of brands and types of lead.
I've been loading a lot of jacketed pills lately and have come to the conclusion if you buy brand X bullets you really need to own brand X's manual. Currently using 6 manuals and my composition books. I use all of these resources plus the internet websites. Specifically proprietary websites for the brand powder I'm using. On occasion I come to forum for a load question and when I do it's to test what I've gleaned from my sources, meaning I've a good idea what I'm doing. Just looking for a sounding board to bounce off of. The very best method I have found is conservative. When I start on something new I read and make a lot of notes and usually start loads in the mid range area. When I was new to reloading I started everything at the bottom. But then. .. . when I started there was no such thing as internet. Everything was pretty much VFR back then. |
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I'm really tempted to lock every thread that starts like this unless the thread starter can show he has at least one printed manual and has made some effort to find load data. Especially in case like this one with a gunpowder in common, wide spread use and extremely easy to research. That is mostly directed to the folks that have admitted they have no load data because it's available on the internet. To the O.P.: I know you probably think AeroE is an ass for giving you a hard time, but really he's right and has your safety in mind. I'm one of the older people on this forum, and have reloaded for 40 years so far. Most of those years, there was no internet. What there was, was the bullet manufacturer's loading manuals, and luckily we still have those valuable sources of information today. The trouble with the internet is you can find a lot of information, but the info you find is only as good as the sources, and sources abound on the internet, a lot of good ones and unfortunately a lot of bad ones. The one source of data you can ALWAYS trust is the bullet manufacturer's own, highly researched data for their specific bullets. For that reason I have current manuals for every bullet I buy and shoot, and if, because it is what I can find to buy, I buy some Hornady bullets to shoot, when I usually shoot similar Sierra bullets, I use Hornady data, not Sierra data. They might be close enough in shape to the Sierras, but, I feel safer knowing Hornady tests their bullets and Sierra doesn't test Hornady bullets. Yes, sometimes there isn't enough difference to matter...but sometimes there is. If you only have a Hornady manual then as a rule buy Hornady bullets. If you find some Speers you want to try, then buy their manual. There are indeed exceptions to this line of reasoning, but it's a darn good place to start as a beginner until you get some experience. |
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Longer barrels create more pressure, shorter barrels less pressure. I can agree with what you posted except for the above. Barrel length doesn't relate in any way to pressures... Ok... let's say for a minute I'll go along with that. Why, then do longer barrels create greater velocities ? |
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I'm really tempted to lock every thread that starts like this unless the thread starter can show he has at least one printed manual and has made some effort to find load data. Especially in case like this one with a gunpowder in common, wide spread use and extremely easy to research. That is mostly directed to the folks that have admitted they have no load data because it's available on the internet. To the O.P.: I know you probably think AeroE is an ass for giving you a hard time, but really he's right and has your safety in mind. I'm one of the older people on this forum, and have reloaded for 40 years so far. Most of those years, there was no internet. What there was, was the bullet manufacturer's loading manuals, and luckily we still have those valuable sources of information today. The trouble with the internet is you can find a lot of information, but the info you find is only as good as the sources, and sources abound on the internet, a lot of good ones and unfortunately a lot of bad ones. The one source of data you can ALWAYS trust is the bullet manufacturer's own, highly researched data for their specific bullets. For that reason I have current manuals for every bullet I buy and shoot, and if, because it is what I can find to buy, I buy some Hornady bullets to shoot, when I usually shoot similar Sierra bullets, I use Hornady data, not Sierra data. They might be close enough in shape to the Sierras, but, I feel safer knowing Hornady tests their bullets and Sierra doesn't test Hornady bullets. Yes, sometimes there isn't enough difference to matter...but sometimes there is. If you only have a Hornady manual then as a rule buy Hornady bullets. If you find some Speers you want to try, then buy their manual. There are indeed exceptions to this line of reasoning, but it's a darn good place to start as a beginner until you get some experience. Thanks for the reply. I never thought AeroE was being an ass or giving me a hard time  I always take internet info with a grain of salt and look at it as a just another piece of the puzzle. But a lot of the time it is explained better
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Longer barrels create more pressure, shorter barrels less pressure. I can agree with what you posted except for the above. Barrel length doesn't relate in any way to pressures... Ok... let's say for a minute I'll go along with that. Why, then do longer barrels create greater velocities ? In simple terms a longer barrel, up to a certain point, will provide a longer burn time for the powder allowing for a greater gas expansion in the bore pushing the bullet to higher velocities. |
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Longer barrels create more pressure, shorter barrels less pressure. I can agree with what you posted except for the above. Barrel length doesn't relate in any way to pressures... Ok... let's say for a minute I'll go along with that. Why, then do longer barrels create greater velocities ? In simple terms a longer barrel, up to a certain point, will provide a longer burn time for the powder allowing for a greater gas expansion in the bore pushing the bullet to higher velocities. Longer barrels do cause more pressure, not so much in a pistol but why do you think they have rifle length gas systems and carbine length gas systems, the longer 20" barrel produces more pressure therefore needing the longer gas tube to slow the cycle of the BCG. Just amagin a carbine length gas system on a 24" barrel and the amount of pressure that would be flowing through that short gas tube, not to mention the longer the barrel to more friction from the bullet traveling a further distance also increases pressure to an extent. Just saying the longer the barrel the more pressure in the system, but the pressure of the load it's self is the same shot in a 16" barrel or a 20" barrel it's just what happens after it's fired that raises or lowers the pressure in the system(barrel, gas tube, ...) |
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So back to NineLivez question of pressure -vs- barrel length. If a load is good to fire through a 5 or 6 inch barrel. It's more than safe for a 2" barrel.
<edited to add> Which reminds me of a story. There is an indoor range not far from me that's a pretty good place to hang out and shoot on Saturdays. Saturday is a family day, at least for the owner and his family. His oldest is 14 or 15 years old and is probably the best shooter in the place. He's quick, visually coordinated from sight alignment to target, and a super great personality to be around. Anyway come closing time it's his job to police the brass and sweep down the range. This particular Saturday I wanted to shoot after hours. Club members have after hour access via swipe card. So I stay to help. Two brooms work quicker than one. We sweep all the dust into a pile. Landon gets a Mtn. Dew bottle from the trash can and cuts the top off then sweeps all the dust into the bottle and says watch this. There's a partially enclosed concrete burn pit outback. Landon places the bottle there, drops a lighted match and runs like hell while the Mtn. Dew bottle erupts into a Volcanic type blaze. Then the obvious hits me. That wasn't dust we were sweeping off the floor. It was unburned gunpowder. As mentioned longer barrels will burn more of the powder loaded, creating more pressure. Shorter barrels just aren't as effective at burning all the cartridges powder load so actually they loose pressure -vs- the same cartridge fired from a longer barrel. My point is. Your good to go with a load designated for a longer barrel than your short barrel. Keep in mind we're talking about pistol loads here. The same is true of almost all rifle applications. |
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EWP & 1911Smith:
Please read the Wiki article on internal ballistics. Skip ahead to the section on pressures. If you look at the graphs you will note the highest pressures occur before the bullet has moved more than a couple inches in the .223 example shown in the graphs. Cut the barrel shorter and all you get is a higher muzzle pressure because the gas hasn't had the volume of the bore into which it can expand before being vented to the atmosphere but the maximum pressure will be the same. EWP, the reason gas port location and size make such a difference on the various models of AR is that you are trying to match an energy requirement to cycle the action but not cycle it too hard. So the closer the gas port is to the chamber the higher the port pressure. The longer the barrel is after the gas port the more time the gas has to flow into the gas tube. So to make the AR operate correctly you have to ballance port pressure with time. |
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Green Canoe,
NineLivez issue is with loading for pistol. Rifle is an entirely different issue and your perspective is changed somewhat if you put it into context with bolt action rifles with regard to barrel lengths. Up to a certain point more barrel length equals more velocity. Case in point. I would not use my Son's load for his 1in10 twist, 20" barreled .308 in my 1in10 twist 26" barreled .308. He's loading a 190 grain pill to within 4/10th of a grain short of showing pressure signs. My 26" barrel builds a significant amount more pressure than his 20". Giving the 26" more velocity capability than the 20". Now back to NineLivez, he's asking if he can use the same load in 2" as a 6" and the answer is yes. If he were asking about loading a hot 2" revolver load in say a 5" semi auto that would have to be carefully looked at. Reference my earlier story in this OP. The longer barrel gives more time to burn more powder. More powder burned equals higher pressure. |
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Green Canoe, NineLivez issue is with loading for pistol. Rifle is an entirely different issue and your perspective is changed somewhat if you put it into context with bolt action rifles with regard to barrel lengths. Up to a certain point more barrel length equals more velocity. Case in point. I would not use my Son's load for his 1in10 twist, 20" barreled .308 in my 1in10 twist 26" barreled .308. He's loading a 190 grain pill to within 4/10th of a grain short of showing pressure signs. My 26" barrel builds a significant amount more pressure than his 20". Giving the 26" more velocity capability than the 20". Now back to NineLivez, he's asking if he can use the same load in 2" as a 6" and the answer is yes. If he were asking about loading a hot 2" revolver load in say a 5" semi auto that would have to be carefully looked at. Reference my earlier story in this OP. The longer barrel gives more time to burn more powder. More powder burned equals higher pressure. You can't make a proper comparison of anything from 2 different guns. For a true result you have to use the same action and the same barrel/chamber by starting out long and cutting it to each length to be tested. Anything else is meaningless. |
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Green Canoe, NineLivez issue is with loading for pistol. Rifle is an entirely different issue and your perspective is changed somewhat if you put it into context with bolt action rifles with regard to barrel lengths. Up to a certain point more barrel length equals more velocity. Case in point. I would not use my Son's load for his 1in10 twist, 20" barreled .308 in my 1in10 twist 26" barreled .308. He's loading a 190 grain pill to within 4/10th of a grain short of showing pressure signs. My 26" barrel builds a significant amount more pressure than his 20". Giving the 26" more velocity capability than the 20". Now back to NineLivez, he's asking if he can use the same load in 2" as a 6" and the answer is yes. If he were asking about loading a hot 2" revolver load in say a 5" semi auto that would have to be carefully looked at. Reference my earlier story in this OP. The longer barrel gives more time to burn more powder. More powder burned equals higher pressure. I can't disagree these statements, though my intent wasn't to change the focus from pistols to rifles. The opperating priciples of the pressure in both are the same just different in magniitude. I still have to dissagree with this statement. No matter the firearm, maximum pressure is reached before the bullet travels very far in the barrel. Now, with a longer barrel more powder is burned and that contributes to the overall energy imparted to the projectile just as the longer time of the projectile being pushed gives it more time to accelerate. But the longer barrel does not create more pressure. It just gives more time for work to be done and therefor more energy is imparted to the projectile. The extra burning powder is just trying to make up the pressure loss that comes with increasing the size of the pressure vessel as the bullet moves down the barrel. Now more powder burned would equal more pressure if the bullet wasn't moving. But with the bullet moving the volume the gasses have to fill is increasing. Please look at the graphs in the Wiki article. Blow up the first graph in the pressure section. It shows bullet position in the barrel compared to velocity, pressure, and time. It will hopefully make what I'm try to convey here much more clear. The second graph in the article shows the effect of picking powders with faster or slower burn rates. Really good stuff... ETA: Hey! Here it is... I didn't realize I could attach a *.PNG file.
If I extrapolate correctly I see max pressure is reached when the bullet has traveled 0.6 inches down the barrel. 
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Green Canoe, NineLivez issue is with loading for pistol. Rifle is an entirely different issue and your perspective is changed somewhat if you put it into context with bolt action rifles with regard to barrel lengths. Up to a certain point more barrel length equals more velocity. Case in point. I would not use my Son's load for his 1in10 twist, 20" barreled .308 in my 1in10 twist 26" barreled .308. He's loading a 190 grain pill to within 4/10th of a grain short of showing pressure signs. My 26" barrel builds a significant amount more pressure than his 20". Giving the 26" more velocity capability than the 20". Now back to NineLivez, he's asking if he can use the same load in 2" as a 6" and the answer is yes. If he were asking about loading a hot 2" revolver load in say a 5" semi auto that would have to be carefully looked at. Reference my earlier story in this OP. The longer barrel gives more time to burn more powder. More powder burned equals higher pressure. You can't make a proper comparison of anything from 2 different guns. For a true result you have to use the same action and the same barrel/chamber by starting out long and cutting it to each length to be tested. Anything else is meaningless. Agreed... and if my analogy would be of the same gun with results taken at different barrel lengths my thoughts would mirror everything above. Do what you like, load how you like, think what you like. I'm firmly rooted in what I know through years of reading and reloading experience. |
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Quoted: AeroE, Thanks for not locking this. To all who responded, Thanks for all the leads and starting points , this is a lot of stuff to take in but I am sorting through in slowly.NineLives, take this for what its worth. 1) Get a reloading data book - the kind you write your notes in, and use it. They're CHEAP. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=203800 2) If your experience is anything like mine, you'll double your knowledge of guns with all you learn about reloading. 3) You can't have enough written manuals. Get the latest ones you can. I have the Lee, Lyman and Hodgdon manuals and intend to get more. (Speer, Sierra, Hornady, etc.) 4) When it comes to load data, I'm not as likely to trust "random internet dude" about a particular load set as I would be a factory reloading manual. Random internet dude could tell you to load up a 12 gauge with rifle powder behind a slug, or something equally stupid. 5) If you feel hinky about a load, don't shoot it. There's NO reason to do it. A 3 cent primer, 2 cents of powder, a once fired case, a 10 cent projectile - seriously. Not worth your vision or the use of your hand or WORSE. Exploding guns have killed bystanders. 6) You will never, ever stop learning about reloading. If you find that you THINK you know everything, you've become dangerously arrogant. I pick up new information constantly. 7) Take your time, measure everything, read read read actual books that you hold in your hand, and if something seems funky ("gosh that OAL looks goofy. That crimp looks really weird. Hey this primer pocket is AWFULLY tight...") then stop for a second. If it seems hinky, it probably IS hinky. |
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Green Canoe, NineLivez issue is with loading for pistol. Rifle is an entirely different issue and your perspective is changed somewhat if you put it into context with bolt action rifles with regard to barrel lengths. Up to a certain point more barrel length equals more velocity. Case in point. I would not use my Son's load for his 1in10 twist, 20" barreled .308 in my 1in10 twist 26" barreled .308. He's loading a 190 grain pill to within 4/10th of a grain short of showing pressure signs. My 26" barrel builds a significant amount more pressure than his 20". Giving the 26" more velocity capability than the 20". Now back to NineLivez, he's asking if he can use the same load in 2" as a 6" and the answer is yes. If he were asking about loading a hot 2" revolver load in say a 5" semi auto that would have to be carefully looked at. Reference my earlier story in this OP. The longer barrel gives more time to burn more powder. More powder burned equals higher pressure. You can't make a proper comparison of anything from 2 different guns. For a true result you have to use the same action and the same barrel/chamber by starting out long and cutting it to each length to be tested. Anything else is meaningless. Agreed... and if my analogy would be of the same gun with results taken at different barrel lengths my thoughts would mirror everything above. Do what you like, load how you like, think what you like. I'm firmly rooted in what I know through years of reading and reloading experience. I have been reloading since'87 and reading since ...hell I am not sure...sometime in the '70's. Still have some of those old books, especially some of the Ackley writings. Too bad that man didn't have todays equipment to work with. |
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