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Posted: 2/24/2010 7:33:36 AM EDT
| So I have done the math every way possible and Im still lost as to how saving about .10 cents a round is a good thing for all the time spent putting a round together. Educate me all that you can and Im sure I have missed some thing as Im very NEW at using AR's and shooting. As of right now Im buying once fired BVAC ammo 55gr for 158.00 for 500 after tax. Reloading calculations have come in at about .19 cents a round (that is considered with using my own "free" brass). Please explain what Im missing but mind you I just picked up a scope so now I can realy see what kind of groups I can get out of the BVAC stuff. |
| I am experimenting to see how to load the 223. When it jumps to $1.00 a round, I can get on the case to do my own. Right now, I am not actively loading for the economics. However, I remember a year ago, you could not get ammo or primers. Not going to happen to me again! |
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Yes this is very true.. I dont wanna get pulled into the vortex/scare of " that there president is gonna take all ur rights" I mean I do see what people are saying but knee jerk reaction cost you money more times then not. My Father-in-Law spent about 600 to much for his .556 sig when the big scare was hitting us 9 months ago or so and now hell he could get the same gun with 2 mags and a red dot for a lot less if he just held off.
PS i have found a few places that have primers sitting on the shelf for 29.00 for a 1,000 count and they had like 8-10k sitting there ( i almost picked them up to just sit on them). Funny thing I figured out fast about guns the price doesnt realy take a hit like my other toys such as electronics and cars. 
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You can save a lot more on different cartridges. I make cast bullet loads for my .450 Marlin that cost around $.10 each and factory ammo is about $1.50 each for this rifle.
.223, you don't save all that much. I make M855 clone ammo for around $.17 each, buying all components in bulk. I still do it because it's something I enjoy. If you're only reloading to save money, then you probably should just buy your ammo from the store. |
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Reloading allows you to shoot more for the same dollar OR shoot a higher quality ammo for the same dollar. I used to be able to load a nice 65+ grain load for around what I was buying Wolf for. Thats a no brainer if you want to do more than plink soda cans.
Also, reloading is viewed as much as a hobby as anything. If you dont shoot a whole lot and dont enjoy reloading its certainly not worth the effort to do. |
| Yeah, you can make some serious quality stuff for 17-19 cents a round, which is much more accurate than what you can buy for 40+ cents a round. I hate how filthy wolf is, and I won't reload the steel cases like some do, so I see steel cased as kind of a waste for me, since i'm not generating more brass for reloading. Plus, it's surprisingly satisfying loading your own ammo. And I won't shoot anyone elses reloads like BVAC. I just don't trust it. The only exception is Black Hills... |
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Reloading allows you to shoot more for the same dollar OR shoot a higher quality ammo for the same dollar.. Bingo. I save about 40-50% on my .223 and 9mm rounds for the stuff I load in bulk. If you shoot 5,000 rounds 9mm per year, the cost to buy factory would be maybe $1,000 whereas the load cost would be $500. Conversely, you can load some high quality rounds for the same or cheaper than you can buy cheap ammo. Finally, as mentioned, for many it's a hobby and something enjoyable to do. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Reloading allows you to shoot more for the same dollar OR shoot a higher quality ammo for the same dollar.. Bingo. I save about 40-50% on my .223 and 9mm rounds for the stuff I load in bulk. If you shoot 5,000 rounds 9mm per year, the cost to buy factory would be maybe $1,000 whereas the load cost would be $500. Conversely, you can load some high quality rounds for the same or cheaper than you can buy cheap ammo. Finally, as mentioned, for many it's a hobby and something enjoyable to do. I initially got into reloading last year for the cost-savings. I'm reloading .223 for $0.16 per round, vs. the $0.38 per round I was paying previously for factory ammo. Note, that's more than half off. Before the new year, I spent about $600 on reloading equipment. From a cost perspective, that pays for itself inside of 2750 rounds. I reloaded and shot about 4K rounds last year, so it already paid for itself (not that I care anymore...). Since then, I've realized a couple of things: 1. I shoot a lot more and don't worry about the cost. I'm most likely spending a great deal more than I would have otherwise, but I shoot a ton more because I know the cost is much more reasonable. It's easier for me to justify the cost when I get so much more for the dollar, it's a psychological thing, I guess. So much for cost savings! 2. I have found that, with very little scientific effort, the loads I make for my rifles are MUCH more accurate than the "cheap" commercial ammo I was buying before. I never got 1MOA, much less sub-1MOA groups @ 100 yards with commercial, but I seem to have no problem doing so with my handloads. 3. I enjoy doing it. It's a hobby in it's own right and at this point I reload even for pistol, which I really don't shoot very much. I enjoy the entire process and achievement of knowing that I created a quality product that took some time and effort and ended up with functional, accurate results. |
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I had reloaded pistol rounds in the early 90s then got busy and packed the stuff away. In about 2005 I got the BRD bug but was buying my ammo. I bought and shot alot of the wally world Israel made 55 grain and its did pretty good. I then picked up a new 1 in 8 twist rifle and the 55 gr. did great there also.
One day at a fun show I picked up a box of Blue Box of Black Hills 68 gr. heavy match and the stuff was horrible for me, about 2 inchs at 100 yards. I decided I would dust off the old press and try 223 loading. I found some 68 gr. Hornaday and Varget and was making 5 rounds go into an inch target. I still have over 5k of factory and milsurp rounds sitting in the can, I don,t think I have fired any thing but a hand loaded round in 2 years. Now im using 77 and 69 grain SMK and Nosler CCs and building better rounds each time out. I really feel I can build a better round than I can buy,usally under 25 cents.Plus it,s fun to play around with different combos of components. Also making ss109, 55 gr. and 62 gr. for the zombie carbines and fun blasting. 
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Comparing to factory new ammo which is about $0.35 -$0.45 / Round, you actually save quite a bit.
2 years ago 9mm was cheaper to buy at walmart ($8.95/50) than it was to reload. But now the same ammo is $11.95+ so it's become cheaper to reload 9mm. .223 does take alot more work to reload than pistol rounds, so that is something to take into consideration, but If I can make my own for $0.16 - $0.19/Round vs $0.35+/Round, That's about 50% savings! I am working toward 5k rounds of 9mm & .223 reloads in storage. If the price of ammo drops, I'll buy the factory ammo and shoot it, but if the price keeps going up and/or if we go threw a period of ammo shortage again, I will have a stash that will keep me shooting.. -Masta |
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So I have done the math every way possible and Im still lost as to how saving about .10 cents a round is a good thing for all the time spent putting a round together. Educate me all that you can and Im sure I have missed some thing as Im very NEW at using AR's and shooting. As of right now Im buying once fired BVAC ammo 55gr for 158.00 for 500 after tax. Reloading calculations have come in at about .19 cents a round (that is considered with using my own "free" brass). Please explain what Im missing but mind you I just picked up a scope so now I can realy see what kind of groups I can get out of the BVAC stuff. You got that about right. Lot of reloaders buy components in big bulk and will use it over years so their dolloar cost average is lower, at least that's what I do.If you look around you could get it to 16.5 cents at today's cost and this is for new commercial components. If you value your free time and want to shot as cheap as possible go steel cases ammo. Brown Bear has a better rep than wolf and only slightly more. I reload more as a hobby. Pistol rounds are easy peasy to load. Just tumble and go to town on a progressive. Going slow I'll crank out 250/ hour. Sure beats going to Walmart for the 100 time and not finding any pistol ammo. If bought in bulk even 9mm can save some bucks. I broke even even many years ago in 4 months but I was shooting a buttload of .45 ACP. For blasting .223 ammo it might not be worth it. If you have a special need i.e. precision ammo, obsolete ammo, big bore, etc. it can't be beat. |
| I started reloading so that I could maximize my accuracy of my hunting loads and save money on shooting 44 magnum and 357 pistol rounds. So my investment was not big to switch over to 223 rounds. I do it becuase I like getting a really accurate round compared to having to choose what is available on the store shelf. I also find reloading a relaxing hobby and enjoy it. Do I save tons of money? Probably not, but I have learned a lot and appreciate accurate ammo and what it takes to get firearms to shoot well. |
| I'm just getting my equipment set up and will hopefully be churning out my first test rounds within a couple days. The reasons I decided to reload were cost and, more importantly, accuracy. It might take more time to load a hundred rounds than go pick up a cheap Federal value pack at Wal-Mart, but it'll save a little money, be more accurate, and I'll enjoy the time spent. Also, as others have said, pride is a good reason as well. |
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Most of the time I see people comparing bulk purchased fmj loads vs. fmj reloading and think the savings aren't big enough. It's true that fmj's on sale are deal, but I don't shoot that stuff. I can load premium Hornady XTP's for about what I pay in stores for fmj's.
Compare the price of premium brand bullets compared to reloading and the savings become much much greater. I routinely load Sierra match kings in .223 and .308 for costs identical to buying fmj's at the store. Federal Gold Medal Match ammo is not as good as my custom tailored loads. Federal wants nearly $1.50 per bullet in retail settings. Gold Dots, Golden Sabres, Nosler, Sierra and Hornady all make great premium bullets and I end up paying around $10.00 to $13.00 a box of 50 reloaded. |
| So if I were to buy the Dillon 650 would this progressive press still be able to produce accurate loads repeatedly or is it a must to load idividualy to ensure complete accuracy?? The only thing that I could see being questionable is did the powder throw produce correctly. Your guys experiance will be key in answering this! |
Price, accuracy, etc...blah, blah, blah... all true. Bottom line for me some times is that reloading gets me down in my man cave away from the world, nagging wife, loud kids and such  . I'm a very anal person, so the tedious accuracy that goes along with reloading is a perfect escape for me.
In all seriousness, after 8 years in the Army I realize how little they actually taught us about shooting. Now that I shoot as a hobby, and reload as a hobby I feel like I'm a more 'complete" shooter using ammo I made. 
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Prices that I have come up with is listed below. If I have missed some thing or I have found stuff to be to expensive please post were I should be looking (Links always help more then saying a slange name for a place)
Primer/.03c each powder- 1$=1lbs Bullets-.07c each |
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While I can't answer for the Dillon, I know my RCBS Pro-2000 progressive can handle .223 and make rounds just as consistent as the military and bulk ammo you buy off the shelf. Having good gear makes up for the fact that you're trying to do 5 things at once. Sure, single stage will always be that fraction more consistent and therefor that fraction more accurate, but if you're just making BULK, then a progressive of the quality of the Dillon, RCBS Pro-2000, or Hornady LnL, you'll be fine.
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..so how is the math steering you wrong? 30-60% savings is still savings, no matter how you cut it. If you are looking to pay yourself for your time, this is not your kind of hobby.
I load extremely quality and accurate .223 ammo for 18.5 cents per round, and that's figuring buying powder in 1lb jugs (still hunting for the "perfect powder" and then I'll switch to 8 or 5 lb jugs.) On my measly Lee turret press, I loaf and still load 120 rounds per hour. Case prep runs at around 200 rounds per hour if trimming is required, closer to 400 rounds/hour if trimming is not needed. During all of this, I relax by turning up some good tunes, settle into a rhythm, and forget all about the stressful 50hour/week job. For me, it's a no-brainer. Don't have to hunt down ammo when I need it, compromise and not get what I want, and I can load up loads that make my rifles happy. |
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Hi
New to the site Hope this is not a dumb question for my first post Does anyone have any pet hand load info they want to share for a 223 Bushmaster1/9 Varmint heavy barrel I am having a bit of a time trying to hold 1/4 " at 100 I am predominently a varmint shooter 300 -500 yds I know the rifle can do it But can I get it there. I prefer hand loads to factory But even the factory stuff has been challenging I have taken a PD at 700 yd with this rifle with a cheap factory load [ all that I had at the time] I do not know who was more surprised me or the PD when I knocked him off the mound [ took 3 rounds to walk it in] I logged it as LUCKY shot not to be repeated again for a long while . |
| after lots more reading I realy think the dillon 650 will be the way that I go. Considering the fact that there are 3 of use that shoot .223 and another one will be joining so that would be 4 guys shooting an average of 100-150 rounds an outing. Thats an average of 400 rounds an outing and my guess is some were around the 700-800 rounds a month will be shot. If i was figuring conservatively we would be using at least 600 rounds a month which= 7200 rounds a year. Im just doing the math to help justify the needs. The challenge of knowing the loads i will be building will shoot much better then the BVAC I have been buying sounds very exciting to me as well. Please I know there are lots of you reloading so were is the best place to buy accurate bullets for a good price?? |
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Most of the time I see people comparing bulk purchased fmj loads vs. fmj reloading and think the savings aren't big enough. It's true that fmj's on sale are deal, but I don't shoot that stuff. I can load premium Hornady XTP's for about what I pay in stores for fmj's. Compare the price of premium brand bullets compared to reloading and the savings become much much greater. I routinely load Sierra match kings in .223 and .308 for costs identical to buying fmj's at the store. Federal Gold Medal Match ammo is not as good as my custom tailored loads. Federal wants nearly $1.50 per bullet in retail settings. Gold Dots, Golden Sabres, Nosler, Sierra and Hornady all make great premium bullets and I end up paying around $10.00 to $13.00 a box of 50 reloaded. +1 The only way I can afford to shoot my .308 bolt rifle is to reload. |
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Hi New to the site Hope this is not a dumb question for my first post Does anyone have any pet hand load info they want to share for a 223 Bushmaster1/9 Varmint heavy barrel I am having a bit of a time trying to hold 1/4 " at 100 I am predominently a varmint shooter 300 -500 yds I know the rifle can do it But can I get it there. I prefer hand loads to factory But even the factory stuff has been challenging I have taken a PD at 700 yd with this rifle with a cheap factory load [ all that I had at the time] I do not know who was more surprised me or the PD when I knocked him off the mound [ took 3 rounds to walk it in] I logged it as LUCKY shot not to be repeated again for a long while . No dumb questions here. Your expectations of your rifle are optimistic, and you should not only be completely surprised when the rifle shoots 1/4 moa on average, you should sell it to by three merely excellent 1/2 to 5/8 minute guns. This load will measure the accuracy of your rifle: Winchester brass, Remington 7 1/2 primers, 27.0 grains of Reloder 15, and a 52 grain Sierra MatchKing bullet. Seat to 2.25 inches cartridge overall length. |
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.308 out of a beltfed.....Hmmm .15 cent reload or .50 cent surplus. I am also reloading .223 for .08 cents a round with components I have bought in the the last 18 months. Not calling you out, or anything...but links...or it didn't happen. .08cents a round??? I can't find projectiles for .08cents a piece. ka |
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OK I will take 1/2 " and thanks
But if you ask 1/2 it goes to 1 + and out past 300 yds that one minute is wider than a 3 inch wide PD I have a 204,22 -250 , 6-284 and 223 bolt that will hold that 1/4 if I by accident do my part I was hoping to do te same with this AR But great expacations are often disappointing My first AR and it is a learning experience Thanks for the kind response and load info I certainly would not mind getting a few more suggestions Thanks to all who may wish to respond . |
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Well Cultgti, I may not be the most experienced here or reloading the longest here either, but... I have learned a few things along the way while getting ready to and actually reloading. Yes I know I can save money at it but to me I do not really care about the price, if I save $1.00 or more or just .25c a round that is fine with me. I do it because it is relaxing to me and I find that I enjoy it. I haven't gotten to the accuracy part yet but I plan to in the near future. Reloading is like any other hobby, like cars or bowling etc. not a lot of people are reloading for just savings. Sure that is a part of it but not all of it. Some of us want to turn our rifles into "tack drivers" others for competition. The end result is still the same.
A quick rundown of the equipment I have which is about the bare minimum. 2 Lee single stage presses Pact powder dispenser and scale combo 4 sets of dies (Lee and RCBS) RCBS swage set hand powered case trimmer calipers (2sets) Tumbler Wallyworld collander bucket for the media after tumbling powder funnels (2) Kinetic bullet puller Lee hand priming system Lee perfect powder dispenser 5 or 6 books on reloading This is not including the 15K primers I just bought or the 12 pounds of powder as well. and a few more things for reloading not including the brass and containers to hold them and a few 50 cal ammo cans. |
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Prices that I have come up with is listed below. If I have missed some thing or I have found stuff to be to expensive please post were I should be looking (Links always help more then saying a slange name for a place) Primer/.03c each powder- 1$=1lbs Bullets-.07c each Did i read this right.... $1=1lbs, please tell me where...please |
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Reloading allows you to create very top notch ammo for the same price or less than you can buy all that cheap shit. Once you are on the second firing with the same brass the cost goes down considerably. this is the answer - compare your costs of shooting match quality ammo vs. 193. you can reload (a) match components at a higher QC and (b) optimize the load for YOUR RIFLE. it's a no brainer. i like being obscenely accurate and my tuned loads do that. |
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