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Posted: 12/14/2009 12:05:37 PM EDT
| can anybody tell me why rainier puts a disclaimer on the site about loading thier bullets to lead specs.... |
| If I recall correctly, it is becuase the bullet is "plated" and not jacketed. This means that the lead core simply has a "coating" of copper over the lead. If the bullet is pushed too fast, the rifleing of the barrel can cut though the plating, and expose the lead core. Thus you loose accuracy, and expose yourself to the lead vapors. For most reloaders it is not an issue for pushing "fast" bullets, but I know several IPSC open shooters that were having baffle hits in the compensator from the plating coming off since they were pushing 9mm and .38 supers well past 1200fps. |
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can anybody tell me why rainier puts a disclaimer on the site about loading thier bullets to lead specs.... My translation of disclaimer would read something like this: Loading a soft plated bullet to hard jacketed high side spec in a Glock equals ....... KABOOM !!! ..... Not too good an idea in rifled barrels either. |
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Quoted: Quoted: can anybody tell me why rainier puts a disclaimer on the site about loading thier bullets to lead specs.... My translation of disclaimer would read something like this: Loading a soft plated bullet to hard jacketed high side spec in a Glock equals ....... KABOOM !!! ..... Not too good an idea in rifled barrels either. And your translation would be wrong as is your caution about using them in rifled barrels. You simply don't know what you're talking about and its irresponsible to to make those stupid claims. I've shot 10s of thousands Rainier plated bullets in 40s&w, 45acp, and 30 carb, including thousands of their 165grn bullets in my 10mm at 1,503fps. Rainier's caution is based upon the fact that the lead core of the bullet is much softer than a jacketed bullet, therefore, the bullet obturates to the lands and groves. Because it seals much better than jacketed bullets, the pressure can build faster if they are loaded too hot. How fast is too fast? While both Berrys and Rainier caution against speeds over 1,200fps, the fact is that their bullets work just fine at much higher speeds. My Rainier M1 carbine bullets clock at 1,900fps with no issues. The only caution one must take care with is crimping. You don't want to over crimp the cases as that will cause them to cut into the plating. BTW, here are two sectioned 45acp bullets made by Berrys and Rainier.  |
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can anybody tell me why rainier puts a disclaimer on the site about loading thier bullets to lead specs.... My translation of disclaimer would read something like this: Loading a soft plated bullet to hard jacketed high side spec in a Glock equals ....... KABOOM !!! ..... Not too good an idea in rifled barrels either. And your translation would be wrong as is your caution about using them in rifled barrels. You simply don't know what you're talking about and its irresponsible to to make those stupid claims. I've shot 10s of thousands Rainier plated bullets in 40s&w, 45acp, and 30 carb, including thousands of their 165grn bullets in my 10mm at 1,503fps. Rainier's caution is based upon the fact that the lead core of the bullet is much softer than a jacketed bullet, therefore, the bullet obturates to the lands and groves. Because it seals much better than jacketed bullets, the pressure can build faster if they are loaded too hot. How fast is too fast? While both Berrys and Rainier caution against speeds over 1,200fps, the fact is that their bullets work just fine at much higher speeds. My Rainier M1 carbine bullets clock at 1,900fps with no issues. The only caution one must take care with is crimping. You don't want to over crimp the cases as that will cause them to cut into the plating. BTW, here are two sectioned 45acp bullets made by Berrys and Rainier. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/Coloradoglocker/SectionedBullets.jpg I have maxed out some 10mm 165gr they seem ok but I would not endorse anyone to load them to max. I did have a few split cases but I am not sure if that was old brass .....they were once fired . |
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Quoted: I have maxed out some 10mm 165gr they seem ok but I would not endorse anyone to load them to max. I did have a few split cases but I am not sure if that was old brass .....they were once fired . As I said above, I shoot Rainier 110grn round nose .308 bullets in my M1 Carbine at 1,900fps and they work just fine. Before I bought them, I called Rainier and asked them about their 1,200fps caution on their website. They replied that they have tested their 30carb bullets to 2,100fps with no problems and that the caution is because they are soft lead based, they don't recommend people hot rodding them because of pressure spike concerns using FMJ loads with essentially a lead bullet, not concerns with the bullet itself. Their only concern is that one must be careful not to over crimp with the bullets. Two undesirable things can happen if you crimp past just removing the bell. First, you run the risk of cutting into the thin brass plating if you over crimp. If you cut the plating, that could result in the rear of the plating falling off, resulting in poor accuracy.Second, because brass will 'spring back' and lead won't, if you crimp too much you'll actually make your bullets loser in the case, rather than tighter. This obviously could result in bullet setback which can be a real issue in pistol bullets. I've shot both Rainier and Berrys on paper (I don't usually) at ranges form 50 to 150 yds looking for problems (plating pealing, bullets tumbling, poor accuracy). The results have shown that they've done their job as well as any of my other bullets. I have noticed that at longer ranges, they aren't always as accurate as FMJ bullets but at pistol distances, they are great practice bullets. Also, as far as split cases are concerned, that issue has nothing to do with the type of bullets loaded, but rather the work hardening of the brass at the neck or stretching of the case at the base. Quoted: Then these bullets if kept close to 1k fps should do good in a suppressor. Yep, they'll work great fine with a suppressor. |
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can anybody tell me why rainier puts a disclaimer on the site about loading thier bullets to lead specs.... My translation of disclaimer would read something like this: Loading a soft plated bullet to hard jacketed high side spec in a Glock equals ....... KABOOM !!! ..... Not too good an idea in rifled barrels either. And your translation would be wrong as is your caution about using them in rifled barrels. You simply don't know what you're talking about and its irresponsible to to make those stupid claims. I've shot 10s of thousands Rainier plated bullets in 40s&w, 45acp, and 30 carb, including thousands of their 165grn bullets in my 10mm at 1,503fps. Rainier's caution is based upon the fact that the lead core of the bullet is much softer than a jacketed bullet, therefore, the bullet obturates to the lands and groves. Because it seals much better than jacketed bullets, the pressure can build faster if they are loaded too hot.......... That's the same thing I just said that YOU said was STUPID and IRRESPONSIBLE. How fast is too fast? While both Berrys and Rainier caution against speeds over 1,200fps, the fact is that their bullets work just fine at much higher speeds. My Rainier M1 carbine bullets clock at 1,900fps with no issues. The only caution one must take care with is crimping. You don't want to over crimp the cases as that will cause them to cut into the plating. BTW, here are two sectioned 45acp bullets made by Berrys and Rainier. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/Coloradoglocker/SectionedBullets.jpg Then we'll simply have to agree to disagree or you'll have to forgive me and do a better job of educating me...... because that is exactly the way I understand it to be... the hotter the load behind a soft bullet the tighter the seal to barrel which causes a spike in pressure......speaking of incorrect information...what you've claimed alarms the hell out of me in concern for others reading your post. ETA:Berry's and Ranier are the only brands of bullets used in my pistols.......and what I really don't understand is your failure to acknowledge increased pressure a hexagonal barrel produces on a round verses a rifled barrel. That's a KABOOM begging to happen. I really don't care how hot you've loaded Ranier and Berry's and been lucky to date... Fact is both are copper washed and not jacketed. |
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can anybody tell me why rainier puts a disclaimer on the site about loading thier bullets to lead specs.... My translation of disclaimer would read something like this: Loading a soft plated bullet to hard jacketed high side spec in a Glock equals ....... KABOOM !!! ..... Not too good an idea in rifled barrels either. And your translation would be wrong as is your caution about using them in rifled barrels. You simply don't know what you're talking about and its irresponsible to to make those stupid claims. I've shot 10s of thousands Rainier plated bullets in 40s&w, 45acp, and 30 carb, including thousands of their 165grn bullets in my 10mm at 1,503fps. Rainier's caution is based upon the fact that the lead core of the bullet is much softer than a jacketed bullet, therefore, the bullet obturates to the lands and groves. Because it seals much better than jacketed bullets, the pressure can build faster if they are loaded too hot. How fast is too fast? While both Berrys and Rainier caution against speeds over 1,200fps, the fact is that their bullets work just fine at much higher speeds. My Rainier M1 carbine bullets clock at 1,900fps with no issues. The only caution one must take care with is crimping. You don't want to over crimp the cases as that will cause them to cut into the plating. BTW, here are two sectioned 45acp bullets made by Berrys and Rainier. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/Coloradoglocker/SectionedBullets.jpg Then we'll simply have to agree to disagree or you'll have to forgive me and do a better job of educating me...... because that is exactl the way I understand it ti be... the hotter the load behind a soft bullet the tighter the seal to barrel which causes a spike in pressure......speaking of incorrect information...what you've claimed alarms the hell out of me in concern for others reading your post. Cut a Rainier open some time. The thickness of the jacket absolutely surprised me. |
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snippet: How fast is too fast? While both Berrys and Rainier caution against speeds over 1,200fps, the fact is that their bullets work just fine at much higher speeds. So your telling us to load past what the manufacture suggests and warns against ???My Rainier M1 carbine bullets clock at 1,900fps with no issues. The only caution one must take care with is crimping. That's fine for a bolt action rifle but not a semi-auto pistol !! You don't want to over crimp the cases as that will cause them to cut into the plating. That's because the plating is thin.
This is trouble in the making for a new reloader or novice..... that's set back in a semi auto laying in wait ............ with a perfectly tuned semi auto setback is not so much an issue but you have no idea who your giving this advice to or the condition of their weapon. I don't mean to be rude but your advice to others scares the hell out of me for those reading who might not know any better. YOU DO NOT LOAD A COPPER WASHED BULLET TO HI SIDE OF JACKETED SPEC.... NEVER ! |
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