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Posted: 10/8/2009 9:31:56 AM EDT
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Ok, so I pulled the cardinal sin and did some sparse reloading for the past year ot two without ever opening a manual. Did most of my reading online on how to adjust dies, product reviews, mfg's load data, etc.
Anyways, I finally broke down and bought a Speer manual with my last primer/powder order. The only one Powder Valley had left was Speer. I got it and read about 100 pages in the first day. Sure, there was a little bit of useful info, but nothing I hadn't read in about 2 hours of googling. The case prep, die selection/adjustment, and tips/tricks sections were basically 60 pages of RCBS infomercial. They also make no reference to anything specific i.e. how much to chamfer/debur, walnut vs. corn cob media, etc. Is this phenomenon limited to the Speer manual or do they all do this? If it had been $5.00, I wouldn't have been so discouraged. But I feel like I paid for RCBS/Speer advertising. |
| Pretty much all the manuals will push there equipment why wouldn't they,as far as the basics go each are pretty much the same. Where each manual differs is that most with the exception of the Lyman and Lee having cast bullet data and are bullet specific and have load data related to there particular brand of bullets they sell. Plus the online sight don't always give you the Min. and Max. loads for that particular bullet/powder/primer combo or the case and OAL specifications. I own one of pretty much everything,there a good reference. |
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First of all, reloading manuals like the Speer have as their main focus RELOADING DATA for specific cartridges using Speer bullets (but of course the data can be used as a reference to other brands of bullets in the same weight as well.)
Yes, they also address some basic reloading how-tos and in fact the Speer #14 has a lot of good basic info on this subject. No, they don't tell you everything, but enough to get you by, and you can read the book anywhere - no internet connection necessary. And yes, they, like their competitors, are focused on the use of Speer, RCBS, and CCI stuff (all of which are under the same corporate umbrella) - this is only natural don't you think? Does Richard Lee's reloading manual contain RCBS stuff or is it an "infomercial" for Lee products? Or that Hornady and Nosler and Hodgdon manuals don't push the use of their products? So you haven't yet read the section on "Fine-Tuning the Reloading Process: Advanced Techniques from the Experts' Notebooks"; "Reloading for Cowboy Action Shooting" (good advice on issues with too light of revolver loads); "Automating the Loading Process - Progressive Reloading Equipment"; "When All Else Fails: Troubleshooting Techinques"; Exterior Ballistics: Flight Planning for Bullets"; "Black Powder Cartridge Performance: A New Look at an Old Art"; and "Why Ballisticians Get Gray" - all of which contain answers to many of the questions posted here on this forum and also contain information that even the most experienced reloaders can learn from. And I suppose that rifle data from the .22 Hornet to the .470 Nitro Express, and pistol data with some valuable reloading tips that may be unique to certain Speer bullets that runs from the .22 Hornet (handgun) to the 500 S&W Magnum is inconsequential and not worth more than $5? Even when specific cartridge loading tips and info is included in the preface to each caliber? How about the fact that unlike some data sources, Speer shoots the load (which are presented usually in logical even increments) in an actual firearm (not a pressure barrel) to give you a better idea of real-world velocity, not rounded-up or down velocity to the nearest 50 or 100 fps? That makes the Speer a worthwhile reality check in and of itself. I guess I must be getting crochety in my old age, or am just dumb, because I have every Speer manual back to their #7 and back issues of the Nosler, Hornady, Sierra, Hodgdon, Lyman, and Barnes manuals as well. And I learn something from every one of them, and find the collation of data out of them very informative and useful. I find the money to be very well spent. Online is great, but there still is a place for actual books too. I'm sorry that Speer didn't tell you the definitive answer to "walnut vs. corn cob media" - that is likely because both work, it is not a big deal in the long run and they know it. I also suspect that they figure that you should figure out yourself by that when you" chamfer/deburr" that you take enough metal off to smooth out the rough square edges but not so much that you thin the case to a knife edge. You're not cutting diamonds or performing brain surgery here - just think about why you are doing it and what it will take for the bullet to slip into the case with gouging it with burrs. It's really, really so basic that the writers of Speer, et.al. cannot think to address everything like this. This trivial information is found somewhere, perhaps on this forum even. Sorry... end of rant 
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It is really good advice to own the most recent book for the bullets that you use on a regular basis. I literally have every Barnes Manual they have put out, several variations of Hornady manuals, and others. I always buy the most updated version of the manual as soon as they come out, and check the websites for corrections and additions regularly. The only manual, just for discussion's sake, that I do not own is Swift because I have never even bought a box of Swift bullets. It gets expensive, and not every updated manual is going to have information that is useful to you, or that wasn't present in it's last form, but it is still a good idea to buy and update them as needed. |
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If nothing else, the load data in every manual contains more combinations than the on line information supplied; in every case as near as I can determine.
If you want to expand your knowledge into the finer points, then get a copy of Precision Shooting's manual. This pursuit is like many others - there are the fundamentals which are generally covered in the information anyone can find, and there are advanced topics that get passed along by word of mouth or in specialty publications that casual participants may never hear about. If you think the current manuals are lacking information, you should see some from the '60's where the degree of handholding was even less than found nowadays. |
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Quoted:
If nothing else, the load data in every manual contains more combinations than the on line information supplied; in every case as near as I can determine. If you want to expand your knowledge into the finer points, then get a copy of Precision Shooting's manual. This pursuit is like many others - there are the fundamentals which are generally covered in the information anyone can find, and there are advanced topics that get passed along by word of mouth or in specialty publications that casual participants may never hear about. If you think the current manuals are lacking information, you should see some from the '60's where the degree of handholding was even less than found nowadays. Thank you. That's what I was looking for. I just didn't want to go throwing money around for books that were going to be telling me the same thing. It's nice to know there are other options that will open new doors, etc. Like I said, I have been reloading for a few years now, so I have more experience than the beginning sections were meant for. I'm sorry that Speer didn't tell you the definitive answer to "walnut vs. corn cob media" - that is likely because both work, it is not a big deal in the long run and they know it. I also suspect that they figure that you should figure out yourself by that when you" chamfer/deburr" that you take enough metal off to smooth out the rough square edges but not so much that you thin the case to a knife edge. You're not cutting diamonds or performing brain surgery here - just think about why you are doing it and what it will take for the bullet to slip into the case with gouging it with burrs
So it took you 3 sentences to share the information, including an insult, and Speer couldn't fit it into their 1200 page book? Although you may be trying to insult me personally, I know this information already, as I said, I'm offering an opinion as to what I figured a $30, 1200 page reloading manual would likely include. Since there's no GOSPEL on things like this, it would be nice to compare manuals; not possible if it's not included. Forgive me if I have my doubts about e-advice when it comes to my face next to thousands of pounds of pressure. Clearly, Speer is going to share speer bullet info, but the wording regarding the RCBS gear is ludicrous. It doesn't say "Do xxxx.... xxx RCBS tool is a good choice." It says "Use xxxx RCBS to do this operation." With no mention of options, techniques, etc. As for the tirade, I believe you have an axe to grind with somebody, but believe me buddy, it's not me. Thanks for the responses, I will be picking up Hornady, Sierra, and Precision manuals. If nothing else they'll be good reloading bench bling. 
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Different manuals cover various topics to differing degrees.  That is why most of us end up with multiple manuals. Each writer/publisher has different background and chooses to focus on different things. ABC's of Reloading and Lyman have some of the best line diagrams for what happens in the reloading dies. Lee goes into a lot of pressure and reduced load discussions and data. Lyman has more cast bullet data. Nosler is more hunting oriented. Some have more cartridge history. Laser-Cast has lots of info specific to various types of competition shooting: IPSC, Cowboy/SASS, PPC, etc. You didn't get into reloading to save money did you?!  Just kidding. Hopefully you will get to enjoy reading tons of info about reloading and not mind a lot of repetition to get to the occasional gold nugget.Reloading can be simple and straightforward if you stick to common cartridges, components and applications. It's when you want a special load, special bullet, special purpose (super accuracy, cosmetics, ballistics, etc.) that you end up digging through multiple sources. Make your reloading whatever you want. Keep it simple or make it an elaborate hobby. I started off siimple, but over the years I got into more variety, more volume and more precision in case prep. I started with just the Speer manual and now I have multiple editions for Speer, Lyman, Nosler, Hodgdon, Accurate, Laser-Cast, ABCs, and Lee. Still trying to find a reason to get Hornady and Sierra. Good luck! |
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Quoted:
Different manuals cover various topics to differing degrees.
That is why most of us end up with multiple manuals. Each writer/publisher has different background and chooses to focus on different things. ABC's of Reloading and Lyman have some of the best line diagrams for what happens in the reloading dies. Lee goes into a lot of pressure and reduced load discussions and data. Lyman has more cast bullet data. Nosler is more hunting oriented. Some have more cartridge history. Laser-Cast has lots of info specific to various types of competition shooting: IPSC, Cowboy/SASS, PPC, etc. You didn't get into reloading to save money did you?! Just kidding. Hopefully you will get to enjoy reading tons of info about reloading and not mind a lot of repetition to get to the occasional gold nugget.
Reloading can be simple and straightforward if you stick to common cartridges, components and applications. It's when you want a special load, special bullet, special purpose (super accuracy, cosmetics, ballistics, etc.) that you end up digging through multiple sources. Make your reloading whatever you want. Keep it simple or make it an elaborate hobby. I started off siimple, but over the years I got into more variety, more volume and more precision in case prep. I started with just the Speer manual and now I have multiple editions for Speer, Lyman, Nosler, Hodgdon, Accurate, Laser-Cast, ABCs, and Lee. Still trying to find a reason to get Hornady and Sierra. Good luck! Great stuff just helped me narrow things down a fragment. Who would you say covers powders best? I have heard Lyman does best with powders but hasn't updated to some of the "new powders" yet. Thanks |
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