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Posted: 3/24/2009 10:13:40 AM EDT
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Does anyone know of a progressive machine that will do 25 auto??
Thanks EDIT I should be a little more specific. Not a turret. Auto indexing if possible. |
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Quoted:
Dillon says no go. They tried it a bunch of years ago and found it did not work weel because of alignment issues. After I posted, I had an idea. Suppose a special shell plate is made up with alignment bushings that guide dies using a sliding sleeve on the outside to insure alignment? I like it. Copyrighted, 24 March 2009. |
| Well, I wouldn't load it on a progressive if I could (I don't own nor do I want a .25Auto, it's less powerful than a .22 LR for pete's sake)... the powder charges are so light, a tenth of a grain can make a big difference... and most powder measures I work with meter powder + - .1 grains, sometimes .2 grains worth of accuracy. It's not worth it. |
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Quoted:
Please post pics of your upper in 25 ACP. 
Can't imagine what you are shooting in this caliber to need to load progressively. Please enlighten me. I am a manufacturer. I have customers that want 25auto. I do it on a Lee turret but want something that can go faster with less pulls of the handle. |
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Quoted:
Well, I wouldn't load it on a progressive if I could (I don't own nor do I want a .25Auto, it's less powerful than a .22 LR for pete's sake)... the powder charges are so light, a tenth of a grain can make a big difference... and most powder measures I work with meter powder + - .1 grains, sometimes .2 grains worth of accuracy. It's not worth it. perhaps, but they are ultra reliable. not like the jamomatic 22 lr's are. while i don't load for one. i used to have a little single action beretta that i wished i'd kept. |
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Quoted:
Please post pics of your upper in 25 ACP.
Can't imagine what you are shooting in this caliber to need to load progressively. Please enlighten me. I am a manufacturer. I have customers that want 25auto. I do it on a Lee turret but want something that can go faster with less pulls of the handle. That's what I thought. But I was hoping you had a pic of the only 25 ACP upper that existed. 
Worth a try. 
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| Well Hornady shows a #37 shellplate for .25 ACP. I am not sure how well it would work with the die bushings though. Lee .40 dies are about the shortest using the Lee lock ring due to the o-ring and the die length. You might have to use a different lock ring and maybe even have a machine shop shave the shoulder length on the bushing. An older Pro-Jector would probably work better because it doesn't use the bushings and has threads instead. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Dillon says no go. They tried it a bunch of years ago and found it did not work weel because of alignment issues. After I posted, I had an idea. Suppose a special shell plate is made up with alignment bushings that guide dies using a sliding sleeve on the outside to insure alignment? I like it. Copyrighted, 24 March 2009. Lots of (commercial metal stamping operation) progressive die techniques translate into progressive reloading, it seems. Progressive stamping dies use pilot holes (and subsequent pilot pins in each station) in the stamped metal for station-to-station alignment in the same thought process. I have never ran a progressive (reloading press), but can see how alignment would work the same way you described––in fact, i am surprised the manufacturers don't have something like this already? How the heck do they ensure alignment right now on progressives? (Like I said, no experience with one...) |
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The case serves as the alignment pin. The shell plate has enough slop to let everything line up. There's usually a little play in the tool heads on presses with interchangeable heads.
I was thinking this problem over this morning and came to the same conclusion. Instead of dorking around with the shell holding feature and lining the dies up there, add alignment features in between dies and shell holders to bring everything into alignment. The sizing station is most critical due to the clearances when the case enters the die. The rest of the stations are easier to solve. Somehow there has to be accomodation for tolerances between the locations of each case and die. Hence slop in the mechanism. |
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So the 25 ACP's problem is that it is too small and weak to align things, whereas bigger cases align fine by having enough stiffness (between them and the die coming together) to let the "slop" self-align them?
Progressive shell plates have spring tension deals that push the case up against the solid side of them (for securing the case and repeatability), correct? |
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Quoted:
So the 25 ACP's problem is that it is too small and weak to align things, whereas bigger cases align fine by having enough stiffness (between them and the die coming together) to let the "slop" self-align them? Progressive shell plates have spring tension deals that push the case up against the solid side of them (for securing the case and repeatability), correct? Pretty much, and the problem is aggravated with straight wall cases because they have to hit the die close to dead on to enter. A bottleneck provides some self alignment as the small diameter neck enters a die body where it's the same size as the base of the case. The first layout I would make is with a single alignment pin installed on the tool head of the press, with multiple blocks attached to the shell plate. The hole in the alignment blocks need a counter sink to catch the pin and drive it into the close fit hole. The catch might be finding enough real estate on the shell plate for the blocks. I would use two fasteners and probably would drill the holes through a constant depth block to save space and complication, instead of trying to put lug flanges on the blocks. The alignment blocks could be tapped to hole a screw, but that would make adjustment from the top impossible. It's possible a two piece block is required, one to provide a place to land that is fixed to the shell holder plate and screwed from the bottom, with a block on top that can float enough to tweak it's adjustment, then get locked down tight. |
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