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Posted: 2/16/2009 4:42:40 PM EDT
I loaded several hundred rounds a couple of nights ago and when I gauged them almost a third were 'bad'.  No way they would have chambered.
Digging into my loads and running a few more through my Dillon 650 I finally realized I was bulging the case as the shoulder/case junction. Slowly running some sized cases through the press and I finally determined it was happening (as suspected) during bullet seating. Pulled the expander from my sizing die and it measures .220" Is this 'correct'? Thanks, Mike |
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That's weird. When I was having an undersized caseneck expansion issue, I had lots of jacket flakes all over the seating station.
But I still had good ammo... fully functional. Maybe a little harm to accuracy. Anyway, I switched to a separate neck expander die. I think it sizes to .224 |
| What brand of dies are you using that has an expander of .220. My redding carbide expander is .222 and my dillon is .2225. You might try another expander that is a little larger. Most books I have read say about .002 difference between the expander and the bullet diameter works best for proper neck tension. Lots of bullets that are marked .224 actually measure .2235. |
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Assuming that you have used this die set before with good results..........you probably need to re-check the settings. A lock nut may have loosened.
IMHO..........before you jump to the FCD. If you're a new re-loader or need a re-fresher................. http://www.chuckhawks.com/adjust_reloading_dies.htm TWO DIE SETS
Two die sets come with a die that decaps, resizes and expands the mouth of a bottleneck case so that it is ready to accept a new bullet in one operation. The second die is used to seat a new bullet in the case in a separate operation. Both of these dies must be correctly adjusted to produce a properly reloaded cartridge. Adjusting the resizing die The end of the decapping pin must protrude at least 3/16" below the bottom of the die to remove the spent primer. When properly adjusted, the internal expander ball/decapping pin unit will just punch out the spent primer. Loosen the small lock nut at the top of the die and turn the expander/decapping unit in or out until the proper adjustment is achieved. Do not set the decapping pin so that it protrudes any more than necessary, as this reduces the case necks grip on the new bullet. Having adjusted the decapping pin to the correct position, it is now necessary to adjust the resizing die to either full length or neck size the case. Just resizing the neck case extends the life of the brass and is satisfactory if the reloaded cases will be fired again in the same rifle. If you only own one firearm for a given caliber, and it is a strong single shot or bolt action model, neck sizing is generally preferred. Full length resizing works the brass more than neck sizing. But it is usually necessary if the finished cartridges are to be fired in more than one rifle, or if they were not fired in the same rifle in the first place, or if you are reloading virgin (unfired) brass. Cases fired in guns with lever, pump, and autoloading actions typically stretch more than cases fired in bolt and single shot actions, and usually require full length resizing. Most shooters full length resize belted magnum cases. It is also a good idea to full length resize cases that might be used to shoot dangerous game, as full length resized cases are less likely to cause a feeding problem at a critical moment. If in doubt, my advice is to full length resize. Here is how to adjust the resizing die to full length resize cases. First, run the ram to the top of the reloading press stroke with the proper shell holder installed. Second, screw the resizing die into the press until it stops against the elevated shell holder. Third, all play must be removed from the system. To do this, lower the ram and turn the die 1/8 to 1/4 turn farther into the press. Check the adjustment by returning the shell holder to the top of its stroke––you should feel the press cam over center. Now set the large lock ring and your die is adjusted to properly full length resize cases. The first two steps of the die adjustment procedure for neck sizing are identical, but the third step is to back the die slightly out of the press. You must check the adjustment for neck sizing by running a fired case into the press. You should be able to see how far down the neck of the case is being resized. The die is properly adjusted for neck sizing when the neck has been resized but the shoulder is not set back. Then tighten the large lock ring. Adjusting the bullet seating die Most bottleneck cases do not require crimping. The tension of the case mouth will usually hold the bullet properly in place without crimping the mouth of the case into the bullet. Bullet crimping works the mouth of the case excessively, and shortens case life. It also requires a bullet with a cannelure into which the case mouth is crimped. Do not attempt to crimp a bullet without a cannelure. I will discuss bullet crimping in connection with three-die sets, as most revolver bullets are crimped in place, and the procedure is the same. Here is how to seat a bullet into the case without crimping. First, place a prepared case (a case that has been resized, re-primed and contains the proper amount of powder) into the shell holder and run it to the top of the press stroke. Second, screw the bullet seating die into the press until you feel it touch the case. Third, back the die off one turn and set the large lock ring. Now there is a proper gap between the shell holder and the die. The next procedure is adjusting the seater plug inside the die so that it seats the bullet to the proper depth in the case. This depends on the particular bullet you are using, the length of your rifle's magazine (the reloaded cartridges must fit into the magazine), the length of your rifle's chamber throat (the bullet must not touch the rifling when chambered), and whether the reloaded cartridges are to be fired in more than one model of rifle (since these dimensions may differ). The safest procedure is to set the bullet to the cartridge overall length (COL) specified in your reloading manual. To do that will require a caliper to measure the length of the finished cartridge. If you don't have a caliper, I suggest that you purchase one wherever you buy reloading accessories. It is a handy thing to have. If you have a factory loaded cartridge handy, the process can be simplified. First, loosen the seater plug lock nut and back the bullet seater plug as far out as possible. Second, place the factory load into the shell holder and run it all the way into the seater die. Third, screw the seater plug down into the seater die until you feel it stop against the bullet in the factory load. Tighten the seater plug lock nut. If you are reloading the same bullet as the factory load uses, your seater die is properly adjusted. Even if you are not using the same bullet as the factory load, the adjustment of the seater die should at least be in the ballpark. Use your caliper to measure the overall length of the reloaded cartridge, and refine the adjustment of the seater plug so that the bullet you are using is seated to the cartridge overall length specified in your reloading manual. Remember to tighten the seater plug lock nut when you are finished. If you do not have a factory load to use as a baseline, here is how to adjust the seater plug. Insert a bullet into the mouth of a prepared case and carefully run the case into the seater die with the bullet seater plug adjusted to whatever depth it came from the factory. You will feel the bullet contact the seater die and be pushed a little way into the case. Stop there. Withdraw the case from the seater die and note how far the bullet protrudes from the case. It is probably sticking out too far. Slowly run the case back into the seating die and gently seat the bullet a little deeper. (Screw the seater plug farther into the die if necessary, but it probably won't be.) Use your caliber to measure the cartridge overall length. Repeat this step until the bullet is seated to the correct overall length as specified by your reloading manual. This is now our sample cartridge. Then withdraw the sample cartridge with its correctly seated bullet all the way to the bottom of the press stroke. Loosen the seater plug lock nut and back the seater plug all the way off. Run the sample cartridge all the way into the seater die (the top of the press stroke). Turn the seater plug into the seater die until it makes firm contact with the bullet in your sample cartridge. Tighten the seater plug lock nut; your seater die should now be correctly adjusted. There is one final step, however. Take the newly reloaded cartridge and make sure that it chambers correctly in your rifle. (Keep the gun pointed in a safe direction and do this with the safety "on" if possible.) Insert it into the magazine to insure that it fits and feeds correctly. It should, but if it doesn't, refine the adjustment of the seater plug in the seater die until it does. Even if you didn't use a caliper to set the bullet to the correct COL and adjusted the bullet seater plug simply by trial and error, when the reloaded cartridge chambers and feeds correctly in your rifle, your bullet seating die is correctly adjusted. Aloha, Mark |
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Mark,
I appreciate the post. I am an experienced reloader. Loaded my first round 15 years ago and have loaded tens of thousands of pistol, rifle and shotshells since. I have used progressive presses a lot, but for straight wall pistol cases and shotgun shells. What I am new to is progressive loading of high intensity rifle rounds. Most of the rifles I load for are bolt action so 50 rounds will keep me shooting all day. Not so much with the AR. 
I have had to re-evaluate how I load and what I monitor for during the process. Frustrating at times, but fun. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Lube the inside of the necks to prevent your problem. I was afraid that this might be the answer. Using a Dillon 650 and lubing the ID of the necks is a PITA since I use a spray lube. 
NECO CARTRIDGE CASE NECK DRY LUBRICATION KIT If you're interested |
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Quoted:
+1 to above. Back the seater die out and screw in the seater plug. You are crimping too much. One of my checks was to do exactly as you suggest. Small expander and lack of neck lubrication combined w/ mixed brass seemed to add up to problems. I will agree that an overly firm crimp would have made the problem even worse. Almost all of the cases that bulged were Federals. Fed cases are among my all time favorite cases for my bolt rifles. I am starting to dislike them for my AR's. Of course I have LOTS of them. 
So a few things were coming together to cause the problem. I am going to crimp in a separate step from now on, take a look at that NECO kit and order another expander ball if needed. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Bullets expand the neck to about 0.223", even if sized to below 0.220" Wouldn't a .224" diameter bullet expand the neck to .224"? If they did, there would be very little bullet pull. Yes, bullets expand the case but brass has spring back and it recovers when the bullet is withdrawn. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Lube the inside of the necks to prevent your problem. I was afraid that this might be the answer. Using a Dillon 650 and lubing the ID of the necks is a PITA since I use a spray lube. This Tutorial contains a great case neck lubing technique. Ever since reading it, I switched my technique and use AssultRiflers method. |
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My experience loading for a 223 Rem AR:
All expander balls and mandrels I have tried expanded the neck too much to have correct bullet retention. I talked to different die manufacturers to see if they had smaller expanders and they do not. Generally, the expanders size the neck ID to be approximately 0.001 smaller than the bullet OD. OK for bolt rifles, not enough for semi-autos like the AR. I have resorted to using a full length sizer die with changeable neck dies and no expander. It is necessary to choose the right diameter neck die for the brass thickness being loaded. I size so that the sized neck OD is 0.003 less than the OD with the bullet seated. This is normally called 0.003 neck tension. Be careful if you crimp for shouldered, not cannelured, rifle ammo. Over crimping can cause bullet deformation that with brass spring back will actually cause less bullet retention. |
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