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Posted: 1/6/2009 2:52:56 PM EDT
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I have a rifle in 30-06 that has failed the field gauge for headspace. Can I make long ammo that would fit the long chamber? Anyone tried this?
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Quoted:
I have a rifle in 30-06 that has failed the field gauge for headspace. Can I make long ammo that would fit the long chamber? Anyone tried this? Bolt gun, set the barrel back and adjust chamber... needs a reamer though. Garand, need to find a smith that does Garand work. |
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Quoted:
I have a rifle in 30-06 that has failed the field gauge for headspace. Can I make long ammo that would fit the long chamber? Anyone tried this? Yes, you can,, just don't size the shoulder back as much. I had a 270 Win that had long headspace from the factory once, all I did was size the cases to where the bolt would snug down, but not too hard. After doing that, I got decent life and accuracy out of the brass. 'Borg |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I have a rifle in 30-06 that has failed the field gauge for headspace. Can I make long ammo that would fit the long chamber? Anyone tried this? Yes, you can,, just don't size the shoulder back as much. I had a 270 Win that had long headspace from the factory once, all I did was size the cases to where the bolt would snug down, but not too hard. After doing that, I got decent life and accuracy out of the brass. 'Borg Thanks Borg. The rifle is a M1917 that I got from the CMP. It is in very nice condition but the head space failed on a field gauge. I don't plan to shoot it much but I would like to shoot it some. |
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I think you should call the CMP about the gage measurement. I'm surprised they let the rifle out. But, I know there are differences in commercial gages from maker to maker, so maybe you need a second opinion from a different gage, too.
I worry about long headspace in bolt guns because that means something has either worn, or bent (the lugs). Bent is bad if there is associated failure at the root of a lug. |
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I think you should call the CMP about the gage measurement. I'm surprised they let the rifle out. But, I know there are differences in commercial gages from maker to maker, so maybe you need a second opinion from a different gage, too. I worry about long headspace in bolt guns because that means something has either worn, or bent (the lugs). Bent is bad if there is associated failure at the root of a lug. I tried 3 different bolts all closed on the field gauge. Yes I should sent it back to the CMP but they probably won't have any to replace it with. So I will probably get a refund and no gun. It is a real pretty one. I will e-mail them and find out. Thanks all for the help. |
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I think you should call the CMP about the gage measurement. I'm surprised they let the rifle out. But, I know there are differences in commercial gages from maker to maker, so maybe you need a second opinion from a different gage, too. I worry about long headspace in bolt guns because that means something has either worn, or bent (the lugs). Bent is bad if there is associated failure at the root of a lug. I tried 3 different bolts all closed on the field gauge. Yes I should sent it back to the CMP but they probably won't have any to replace it with. So I will probably get a refund and no gun. It is a real pretty one. I will e-mail them and find out. Thanks all for the help. They probably have a few bolts laying around they could try though. You won't know until you call them. 
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Update:
#1 I validated my field gauge by trying it in several other 30-06 firearms. None of them would close on this gauge so I have faith that it is accurate. Those other firearms closed on my 'Go' gauge. #2 I added cellophane tape to the bottom of my field gauge to see how far over the headspace is. The tape is .0015" thick. I added .009" before the bolt wouldn't close. .009" is a lot so I don't think I will be firing this rifle. I will call CMP and see what they say. Thanks to all for your help. |
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Update: #1 I validated my field gauge by trying it in several other 30-06 firearms. None of them would close on this gauge so I have faith that it is accurate. Those other firearms closed on my 'Go' gauge. #2 I added cellophane tape to the bottom of my field gauge to see how far over the headspace is. The tape is .0015" thick. I added .009" before the bolt wouldn't close. .009" is a lot so I don't think I will be firing this rifle. I will call CMP and see what they say. Thanks to all for your help. I would contact the CMP to see what they say. However you can do this to correct the headspace condition as far as the brass is concerned. I have done this before with a Swedish Mauser and had to form my own brass for a 7MM WSM that I had built before brass was available. I made that from .300 WSM brass and had to blow the shoulder forward .040" and it works perfectly. It is a safe and established way to fireform cases. You will need to get a larger caliber tapered expander button. Tapered will make it easier to expand the neck with less chance of splitting or collapsing but is not absolutely required. I would go with at least an 8MM and replace your .30 caliber sized expander with the 8MM one. Set it in your size die so that you can expand just the neck. Once you have that done switch back to the .30 cal. expander ball and size the case to just fit with a slight crush when you close the bolt. This will leave a second shoulder at the neck shoulder junction. If you feel the shoulder is not holding then add a .338 expander. Now you will need to find a fire-forming load. I have done this with two different rifles and used light bullets and approx. 3/4 throttle loads of a faster powder for the bullet in that caliber. If you have easy access to some place to shoot start with a couple rds. at half throttle and see if it fully blows the shoulder forward. If not increase the load until it fully forms. Yes this is a bit of work but it is cheaper than setting back the barrel and if you want it for collector status then you c=don't want ot do that anyway. Not only that but fire-form loads can be surprisingly accurate and it gives you a chance to shoot your rifle. It can be done with cream of wheat, a wax plug and pistol powder but I have not done it that way so some one who has will have to explain it to you. |
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I have no problem making brass to fit a gun that is otherwise sound.
The question I have to raise here has two parts, I guess; The first is whether Partisan wants the rifle in a condition to shoot factory ammunition or handloads for other rifles he owns. The second is about whether the next owner of the rifle wants to shoot a special handload or strictly factory ammunition, and also whether the next owner might be sufficiently saavy to have the rifle checked out. I suppose a third consideration is whether the value of the rifle is affected in the future. 0.009 inches is a small dimension to blow out, and I know that I would shoot new or once fired cases in the chamber and then resize to fit that rifle only. Barring any problems with the locking lugs. |
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A careful assessment needs to be made to determine why the headspace is excessive.
Plain old wear on locking faces (or even the wrong bolt) are not nearly as serious as actual setback of the bolt lugs. Steel may not have the same properties is stressed to permanent deformation. Incipient cracks are a possibility, and the metal could than fail at any time under load. |
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Quoted:
I have no problem making brass to fit a gun that is otherwise sound. The question I have to raise here has two parts, I guess; The first is whether Partisan wants the rifle in a condition to shoot factory ammunition or handloads for other rifles he owns. The second is about whether the next owner of the rifle wants to shoot a special handload or strictly factory ammunition, and also whether the next owner might be sufficiently saavy to have the rifle checked out. I suppose a third consideration is whether the value of the rifle is affected in the future. 0.009 inches is a small dimension to blow out, and I know that I would shoot new or once fired cases in the chamber and then resize to fit that rifle only. Barring any problems with the locking lugs. I agree with all that but my big concern at this time is why/how. The M1917 is a very sturdy action. Why does this one have excessive head space? Did someone cut the chamber too deep? Or did something bad happen to the rifle? Too many unknowns. I'll let you all know what the CMP says. |
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I know I posted earlier, but I really thought there was a problem with the "Eddystone" 1917's. I'll see if I can find something on it.
Btw...is it an Eddystone 1917? ETA––link this link from the CMP is a thread that discusses the 1917 problem. Although it speaks mainly of reciever cracks when re-barreling, one gent mentions his had excessive HS and removed his bbl to correct it. Makes me wonder why his had excessive HS also. |
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