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Page Armory » 50 Cal
Posted: 5/30/2010 4:13:49 PM EDT
ok so i bought some Federal American Eagle XM33C 50BMG Ammunition and fired 6 rounds on that 6th round i could not pull the bolt to the rear latter at home i had to take a cleaning rod and lightley hammered out the brass somehow it was hanging up, i compared the brass with a live round and it is a little bigger could it be expanding that much to get stuck ? i am lost. any ideas would be great thanks jeff

Link Posted: 5/30/2010 4:38:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/30/2010 4:42:27 PM EDT by KD185]
what kind of rifle are we talking about

the 1st 5 rounds ejected ok

is your extractor still ok

have you tried re chambering the 1st 5 rounds you shot to see if the bolts closes, extracts and ejects them
and the try the same procedure on the 6th round
Link Posted: 5/30/2010 6:02:52 PM EDT
Fired brass is going to be larger than non-fired brass. Now the real question is, how does the 6th round compare to the 1st 5 rounds of brass? is this a semi or a bolt? I would like to see a pic of all 6 brass from the head. Esp interesting in the primers.
Link Posted: 5/30/2010 6:55:11 PM EDT
I've had some problems with fired brass that needed to be tapped out with a rod down the barrel. Recently I picked up a Williams 50 BMG sized brass gage. Now every round I load has been double checked to make sure it's fully resized and I check them again after getting the bullet seated. Today after firing 10 rounds of API with 220 grs of WC860 I didn't have a single problem ejecting the brass. I also shot a 1.5 inch group at 100 yards which I was pretty happy with using pulled components. I've had much worse days but today the 30" Bohica with the Stainless Steel Bohica lower done me proud. I was pleased with its performance.
Link Posted: 5/31/2010 5:38:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/31/2010 5:38:39 AM EDT by Max-Paul]
ridurall,

With your new gage, have you found any problems before or after seating the bullet? And if so, what kind of problems are you finding? Inquiring minds would like to know, thanks.
Link Posted: 6/1/2010 7:27:02 PM EDT
I just finished sizing and trimming 70 CBC 03 brass cases and put everyone through the Williams 50 BMG cartridge Headspace Gage. This was either the first time sizing about 1/2 of them and the second time on the other 1/2. The ones that had been fired twice were just a smidge longer than the gage after sizing but the Lee trimmer trimmed that down to size in a couple seconds. When loading the resized pulled .510 API bullets and loading them behind 220 grains of WC860 it didn't change how they fit the gage. What I am finding is I have not had to use the rod to extract a single case since I started using the Headspace gage. I don't load my soads very hot so they do not strech much. I do however really like the idea of checking all my .223, .308 and 50 BMG cases. Those I shoot a lot of and it's nice to know that they will fit my chambers without any problems.
Link Posted: 6/2/2010 3:14:09 PM EDT
Same thing happend to me this past weekend using Federal American Eagle XM33C with a Bushmaster BA50.
I ran about 15 rounds flawlessly, then the extractor slipped off the spent casing.

The extractor has an adjustable screw. I'm not sure if it loosened from recoil or if the the casing expanded to a larger size relative to the other fired.

Anyway, I tightened the extractor a bit and experienced no further problems.

Good luck!
Link Posted: 7/1/2010 8:42:57 PM EDT
I discovered something recently the CBC brass was great and easy to resize but I picked up some LC brass for the life of me I could not get it sized down enough to completely fit the Williams Go-noGo gage or not have a hard time fiting into the chamber of my rifle. . I found that removing just a couple of thousands of an inch from the shell holder made all the difference when resizing the brass to make it small enough that it no longer wants to stick in the chamber.
Link Posted: 7/2/2010 1:44:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By ridurall:
I discovered something recently the CBC brass was great and easy to resize but I picked up some LC brass for the life of me I could not get it sized down enough to completely fit the Williams Go-noGo gage or not have a hard time fiting into the chamber of my rifle. . I found that removing just a couple of thousands of an inch from the shell holder made all the difference when resizing the brass to make it small enough that it no longer wants to stick in the chamber.


thats brass sounds like it was fired from a poorly timed M2 or M3
better check the brass for case head speration
Link Posted: 7/2/2010 2:58:24 PM EDT
I agree, I've got a pointed thin rod with the point shaped like an L I feel every case I reload looking for a thin spot about the base.
Link Posted: 7/2/2010 3:00:34 PM EDT
I forgot to say it pisses me off when I spend good money on brass that was shot in a powly timed gun.
Link Posted: 7/2/2010 5:09:37 PM EDT
Do you think that the military gives a shit if their M2 or M3 is poorly timed? Just as long as it feeds, goes boom and ejects they are happy. And if the chamber is just a bit big, well at least the chances of it jamming cause it is a bit dirty is lower with that over sized chamber. Hey these guys are not going to reload any brass. So who cares if the brass is so stretched out that it is hard to re-size and the life of the brass is maybe 1 or 2 reloads. Remember uncle Sam was not thinking of reloading it anyway..

I am going to buy virgin brass. Cause I put way to much time into neck turning and trying to keep the brass uniform to save a few bucks now just to blow away me time and effort on brass that has a reduced life span..

YMMV
Link Posted: 7/2/2010 9:41:58 PM EDT
Max-Paul I agree with you. The previous batch of brass I picked up was nothing short of wonderful. Easy to load and it works like a champ. The guy I got it from had only shot about 42 out of 200 rounds and even those batch of 42 were still easy to load fire and extract.
Link Posted: 7/3/2010 6:31:27 AM EDT
I have a State Arms Rebel, shellholder type bolt, and I too had extraction problems with the factory loaded Federal ammo. I had to tap the bolt handle with my hand and work the bolt a couple times to get the case out - I've only shot 10 rounds thru it but all were like this. I'm wondering if the brass is a little too stiff and causing it to not spring back enough or the load is just a little too hot ? I have yet to reload anything for my .50 yet so I don't have anything to compare it to. I do have a Geo Az case gauge that I will be using when I do get to reload some, the loaded Federal ammo fits the gauge proper but of course is larger after firing but doesn't seem extreme. I hope to be able to try sizing a couple of these cases soon to see how it does - I have the CH4D sizing die.
Link Posted: 7/3/2010 8:25:29 AM EDT
Sometimes a wooden dowl or a good cleaning rod and a rubber mallet is good to have for a sticky case. Rather then smacking your bolt and working the extractor hard lift the bolt and use the rod down the barrel and tap the brass case out. Also if you run into a brass that is too stiff you can aneal it by setting the case in about 1.5 inches of water. Hetat the case head and shoulder until it starts to change color and tip it over in the water. That will soften it. I believe there is also something out there that you can purchased to do the job but this will work.
Link Posted: 7/3/2010 8:51:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 22skip:
I have a State Arms Rebel, shellholder type bolt, and I too had extraction problems with the factory loaded Federal ammo. I had to tap the bolt handle with my hand and work the bolt a couple times to get the case out - I've only shot 10 rounds thru it but all were like this. I'm wondering if the brass is a little too stiff and causing it to not spring back enough or the load is just a little too hot ? I have yet to reload anything for my .50 yet so I don't have anything to compare it to. I do have a Geo Az case gauge that I will be using when I do get to reload some, the loaded Federal ammo fits the gauge proper but of course is larger after firing but doesn't seem extreme. I hope to be able to try sizing a couple of these cases soon to see how it does - I have the CH4D sizing die.


I have had surplus ammo make my bolt stiff to open also with all of my .50's. Surplus ammo is loaded with 235 grains of powder, it is just a little to hot for most bolt guns. I reload with 222 grains of 5010 or 860 and the bolt is easy to open. The Federal ammo is loaded by Lake City at Military specs, for the M2, that is why your bolt is stiff to open. Some of the hottest ammo I have tried came from Maine Cartridge Company, it was 647 gr ball ammo that was so hot that it was hard to open the bolt using a rubber mallet. I decided to shoot it through a chrony to see how fast they were going. I was going to shoot a 10 shot string and compare the deviation also. I only got off 7 shots and the last one was so hot I could not get the bolt to open at all, had to send the rifle back to Klauss at State Arms to open it. Out of the 7 shots I shot through a chrony the velocity was all over the place, from 2716fps (slowest) to the last round that stuck my bolt at 3241 fps (fastest) over 500 fps deviation in a 7 shot group. I had bought 100 rounds of loaded Amax from them at the same time and it was fine stuff, consistent velocity and not hot at all.

Ed

Link Posted: 7/3/2010 1:21:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ridurall:
Sometimes a wooden dowl or a good cleaning rod and a rubber mallet is good to have for a sticky case. Rather then smacking your bolt and working the extractor hard lift the bolt and use the rod down the barrel and tap the brass case out. Also if you run into a brass that is too stiff you can aneal it by setting the case in about 1.5 inches of water. Hetat the case head and shoulder until it starts to change color and tip it over in the water. That will soften it. I believe there is also something out there that you can purchased to do the job but this will work.


Not meaning to bust your chops, really. I just want to point out that you do not want to heat the "HEAD". Shoulder and neck / mouth is totally ok. And I agree that might be the answer for a work hardened case. I have also noticed a few times I have had to slap the bolt handle up a little harder with my hand. But then too they needed a bit of extra effort to close the bolt. Again all with just my bare hand. I am wondering it I might not have had my resizing die screwed in all of the way that batch. What I try to do is have all of my brass fired before I start the process of de-priming, sizing and trimming if needed. I am not adding annealing to the sequence. Once the brass is processed, then I weigh each case and separate in groups of 10 closes weight. If I get side tracked and do not resize all at the same time, I might not have sized them all the same, hence a few that might be tight in the chamber.

Sorry for the long winded statement. Just wonder if it is the brass is harder or maybe not getting a good re-sizing?
Link Posted: 7/4/2010 8:22:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Max-Paul:
Originally Posted By ridurall:
.


Not meaning to bust your chops, really. I just want to point out that you do not want to heat the "HEAD". Shoulder and neck / mouth is totally ok. And I agree that might be the answer for a work hardened case. I have also noticed a few times I have had to slap the bolt handle up a little harder with my hand. But then too they needed a bit of extra effort to close the bolt. Again all with just my bare hand. I am wondering it I might not have had my resizing die screwed in all of the way that batch. What I try to do is have all of my brass fired before I start the process of de-priming, sizing and trimming if needed. I am not adding annealing to the sequence. Once the brass is processed, then I weigh each case and separate in groups of 10 closes weight. If I get side tracked and do not resize all at the same time, I might not have sized them all the same, hence a few that might be tight in the chamber.

Sorry for the long winded statement. Just wonder if it is the brass is harder or maybe not getting a good re-sizing?


Your right my bad use of terms. Yesterday evening I annealed the mouth and shoulder and quenched them in water. Once I did that I was able to resize them enough to completely resize them so they fit down in the Williams case gage. With that and the Lee case trimmer I can get a case cleaned up and trimmed in no time. That Lee trimmer sure works faster and better than the old time of RCBS or Forester Lathe type trimmer.

When I saw the velocities from one of the previous posts I was amazed. I did have a problem with a 200 FPS spread when using WC860 pulled powder. But I never got over 221 grs behind a 647 gr API bullet. I also kept the velocity under 2850 FPS. There was quite a bit of dust in it and I blamed it on that. I did take a fan and pour the powder in front of it to get rid of the dust. I’ve still got 10 lbs of it left over. I get much better results with AA8700 powder. Too bad it's no longer made but I just picked up 24 lbs from a gentleman here on ar15.com.


I'll cling to my God and my guns, and you can keep the "Change".
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 3:48:34 AM EDT
ok its been a while sorry (medical issues) but the weapon i have is a bohica mk3 and i took her to the range yesterday put ten rounds through her, none of them ejected after they fired the thing that bugs me is that when i chamber a live round it will eject with no problems so i am going to try a diff type of ammo and see what happens, thanks jeff
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 1:29:56 PM EDT
Jeff, trying some different ammo is a good idea. But I remember this about the mk1 is that they had some rough chamber walls. Then Chris was suppose to polish up the walls. Cause the owners of the mk1 where having troubles getting the brass out. So, this leads me into the question of is the brass coming out with any kind of rings running around the case? Can you look into the chamber and see the finish? We are not looking for a glass smooth finish, but at the same time major tooling marks could very well be the sign that this receiver slipped past the polishing stage. There is just that small chance that this has happened that I mention it.

BTW hope that the medical problem has healed and who ever it is, is doing better.
Link Posted: 7/5/2010 4:37:03 PM EDT
It may not be the root cause, but it's worth checking. The extractor spring is a piece of music wire. It should be set so that it is flush to the backside of the bolt. Some locktite on the set screw may be necessary to keep it from slipping out.
Link Posted: 7/6/2010 4:42:19 PM EDT
I do wish that the single shot 50s would be set up with a cam on the bolt so that when opened it would put more pressure on removing the brass instead of a straight line pull as I suspect.
Link Posted: 7/6/2010 6:11:45 PM EDT
thanks for the replys ill check the upper and the finish the medical problem is a incomplete spinal cord injury i got in dec still recovering
Link Posted: 8/6/2010 4:45:59 PM EDT
I've tried something different this week. All my CBC brass works perfectly. The TZZ and Lake City brass are harder to extract. This is all loaded with a mild load of 218 to 220 gr of WC860 and AA8700 powders. Anyway I picked up a Forester case neck trimmer because I found out the necks were thicker on the TZZ and the LC brass. I think this will solve the problem with the types of brass that are sticking. in the chamber. Wow, the more I load for this gun the more I enjoy it. I did have a chance to watch a Vulcan 50 BMG shooting the other day. They were shooting Summit and LC factory loads with 235 grs of a ball powder. Wow, what a mean shooting gun. The shell holder type removalbe bolt, 9 lb trigger and fairly small muzzle break did not make for what I would say was comfortable shooter. I much prefer my Bohica, an AR-50 style rifle or one of the Barretts. For my money I'll stick with my Bohica so I can afford a quality scope.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 2:58:29 PM EDT
Just a little update:

I went to range today a put 10 rounds of magtech CBC through my bohica without a problem they ejected great i also put 3 rounds of the american eagle xm33 and they all would not eject so it looks like my ejecting problems were ammo related, i will be measuring the brass to see if their are any diff ill keep you guys updated thanks for all your input, Jeff
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 4:22:53 PM EDT
Jeff,
Glad to hear that you have a handle on the problem. Now to just identify the difference between the different ammo. I hope you spinal cord problem heals for you as soon as possible. Once you discover what the end problem is, please post so we all can learn from it.

Thanks
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:02:43 AM EDT
Jeff, since you have a MkIII, you probably have the new bolt handle with the separate bolt. If so, did you rotate the cam surface to maximize extraction during the handle raise part of extraction? I believe it is a clockwise rotation to bring the cam lobe around to the upper corner of the slot in the receiver so that it starts backing the bolt up during the last few degrees of handle rotation.

And I am surprised no one mentioned it, but that AE XM33 ammo has a history of sticking. It is loaded rather hot compared to many other loads.
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