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Posted: 11/29/2009 7:13:55 PM EDT
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I have a LAR Grizzly that I am needing to get a bore cleaning kit for. Does anyone have suggestions for one that does not cost an arm and a leg. I am also searching for an optic for it, any suggestions ? Thanks, Amos1909 |
| If you lose that arm and leg price requirement, here is a cleaning kit specific to your rifle. |
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If you lose that arm and leg price requirement, here is a cleaning kit specific to your rifle. +1. That's my recommendation. -David Edgewood, NM |
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Otis kits are nice and well made, but that price is ridiculous for what you are getting. For example this is a large Otis Elite kit Cabela's sells, they are usually priced a little high: http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0041935228410a&type=product&cmCat=SEARCHFEAT_all&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&Ntk=Product_liberal&QueryText=Otis+gun+cleaning+kit&sort=all&Go.y=8&_D%3AhasJS=+&N=0&Nty=1&hasJS=true&Go.x=14&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fsearch%2Fsearch-box.jsp.form23&_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1 This is the problem with most everything that surrounds shooting the .50 BMG. They jack up the price simply because it's .50 BMG related. Much like buying parts for a Corvette or a Cadillac. I don't mind paying a little extra because I can understand the .50 BMG has a limited market. But when compared to the Otis Elite Kit, you're paying half again as much for what amounts to 1/4th the product. Bill T. |
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Thanks for the input. I am looking at the Otis or Dewey Rods... Thanks, Amos1909 The otis sucks except for field use. The Dewey rods also suck because the jag and ferrule are both brass. You'll never know if your rifle bore still has copper in it or if the copper solvent is just desolving the brass dewey jag. Folks start out with the Dewey...I did....then they end up buying a stainless rod if they get serious. The folks that shoot their fifties alot and do a good job of cleaning out copper won't recommend a Dewey. Just plan on wasting a lot more time cleaning if you get a Dewey Rod and jag. My time is worth something...I bought the AAA-Ammo rod. -David Edgewood, NM |
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For what it's worth, I've been using the exact same Dewey rod, with the same brass ferrule attached for the last 10 years, as have many top scoring benchrest shooters. Brass doesn't dissolve at anywhere near the rate Copper does from an electrolytic standpoint. Especially with most barrel cleaners. I purchased a Stainless rod once from Midway, actually several, in one of their top of the line cleaning kits, which was very well equipped I might add. I took a section to work and Rockwelled it. It came up 2 points Harder than most barrel steel, (46-48C as opposed to 42-44C for barrel steel, or less). It's your rifle, and please don't think that I'm trying to tell you what to do, but from a common sense standpoint I wouldn't run ANYTHING down a barrel of a $5,000.00 rifle that was harder than the steel it was constructed of. That is simply common sense.
A lot of shooters will talk of "charging". That is hard particles getting embedded into soft cleaning rods that will harm your bore. Ask yourself this. What is in a cartridge, (brass, copper, powder, and or the carbon residue left from it's firing), that is HARDER than your barrel. There isn't any. Never was, never will be. Don't worry about slight green patches. It is far better than scratched or damaged bore. Bill T. |
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For what it's worth, I've been using the exact same Dewey rod, with the same brass ferrule attached for the last 10 years, as have many top scoring benchrest shooters. Brass doesn't dissolve at anywhere near the rate Copper does from an electrolytic standpoint. Especially with most barrel cleaners. Not true. Brass jags will clearly show a blue tinge on a patch even when the bore is clean with products including Barnes CR-10, Sweets 7.62, Boretech Eliminator, and Aqua Ammonia. I purchased a Stainless rod once from Midway, actually several, in one of their top of the line cleaning kits, which was very well equipped I might add. I took a section to work and Rockwelled it. It came up 2 points Harder than most barrel steel, (46-48C as opposed to 42-44C for barrel steel, or less). It's your rifle, and please don't think that I'm trying to tell you what to do, but from a common sense standpoint I wouldn't run ANYTHING down a barrel of a $5,000.00 rifle that was harder than the steel it was constructed of. That is simply common sense. No it's not "common sense". Barrels don't wear out from cleaning, they burn out from throat erosion. Top FCSA shooters all use Stainless rods and stainless jags. A stainless rod will not damage a rifle barrel. A lot of shooters will talk of "charging". That is hard particles getting embedded into soft cleaning rods that will harm your bore. Ask yourself this. What is in a cartridge, (brass, copper, powder, and or the carbon residue left from it's firing), that is HARDER than your barrel. There isn't any. Never was, never will be. Don't worry about slight green patches. It is far better than scratched or damaged bore. Bill T. Yet again, show me proof that a stainless rod and stainless jag wil scratch a bore...You can't. The throat of a barrel BURNS out the bore doesn't wear out, and sure as heck won't wear out from passing a steel cleaning rod or brush over it. Bill, I suggest you stick to what you know and quit trying to spread superstition as fact. Stainless brushes, jags, and rods don't damage the bore of a 50 BMG rifle. If they did, Lee Rasmussen (the 1.9" 5-shot group world record holder), Mark Avakian, and the other FCSA champions wouldn't be using them. These guys shoot more than any of us, clean more than any of us, and thus burn out barrels faster than any of us. So if they were really wearing out their barrels with stainless rods, don't you think they'd switch to something else? The only steel I know that will wear out the barrel of a 50 BMG is when they made bullets out it. Those barrels would last about 1 match and yes they did wear out a barrel, but they were swaging through it at about 50,000 PSI... -David Edgewood, NM |
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"Brass jags will clearly show a blue tinge on a patch even when the bore is clean with products including Barnes CR-10, Sweets 7.62, Boretech Eliminator, and Aqua Ammonia."
So what? "Barrels don't wear out from cleaning, they burn out from throat erosion." Talk to any barrel maker.They will tell you they have seen far more barrels damaged by cleaning rods, than from being "shot out". Gale McMillian has stated this many times. Another thing to avoid are Stainless Steel bore brushes. They are harder than the barrel steel itself, and can cause damage. Bill T. |
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"Brass jags will clearly show a blue tinge on a patch even when the bore is clean with products including Barnes CR-10, Sweets 7.62, Boretech Eliminator, and Aqua Ammonia." So what? So you keep cleaning well beyond when the barrel is clean. "Barrels don't wear out from cleaning, they burn out from throat erosion." Talk to any barrel maker.They will tell you they have seen far more barrels damaged by cleaning rods, than from being "shot out". Gale McMillian has stated this many times. Bill T Yep, plenty of barrel CROWNS destroyed by cleaning. Clean from the breech, and use a bore guide. |
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at least get some stainless brushes from brownels
the brass ones dont last very long if you use copper fowling solvents the stainless ones last 100 times longer Brownells |
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at least get some stainless brushes from brownels the brass ones dont last very long if you use copper fowling solvents the stainless ones last 100 times longer Brownells http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/Barrel_BreakIn.asp "Brass brushes are softer than barrel steel and does no harm. S/S brushes are harder than barrel steel is definetly a no no." Gale McMillan |
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How heavy duty do the rods need to be? I have a bunch of m-14 cleaning rods and could look for .50 cal brushs...... Amos1909 Any normal type of cleaning rod will work on a .50 caliber rifle same as any other, assuming of course it is long enough. A previous poster mentioned buying 2 of the screw together type rods, and using the extra sections to obtain the needed length. That is a good, inexpensive solution. The 3 piece Outers / Hoppes type rods are inexpensive, and work fine. Bill T. |
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at least get some stainless brushes from brownels the brass ones dont last very long if you use copper fowling solvents the stainless ones last 100 times longer Brownells http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/Barrel_BreakIn.asp "Brass brushes are softer than barrel steel and does no harm. S/S brushes are harder than barrel steel is definetly a no no." Gale McMillan Wow, you can quote off the internet...didn't know the last time Gale McMillan made a barrel. Regardless, the majority of WINNING FCSA shooters use stainless rods, stainless jags, and stainless brushes. But hey, since you like cleaning your bore for copper and never knowing when it's clean, go ahead and enjoy yourself. -David Edgewood, NM |
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Well, it appears that I started something here. How heavy duty do the rods need to be? I have a bunch (3 sets) of m-14 cleaning rods and could look for .50 cal brushs to fit it...... Amos1909 You'll have a hard time pushing a Stainless 50 cal brush through the bore with an M14 cleaning rod. Even being a steel rod, they flex too much. The Deweys are fine except they have a brass jag and brass ferule that give you a false positive on the presence of copper in the bore, even when it's clean. Go ask a couple of top FCSAers or a couple of top NCSAers and you'll get the same answer I'm giving you here. -David Edgewood, NM |
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I remember my first .50 match when I pulled out by cleaning rod and brass brush to clean.
I got a couple of chuckles from the pros who threw a couple of stainless brushes at me and explained things as David is here. I also questioned the need for a pricey one piece stainless rod and bore guide, I would hate to think about doing it any other way now. I admit it dont seem quite right maybe but thats the way it's done on a .50 in competition circles. 
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I have over 4000 rounds through one of my barrels and have used a S/S Rod /Jag/Brush for the life of the barrel and that barrel won 6 first place awards at the last match it was shot in plus smallest group of the match. S/S rods/ brushes/ jags wont hurt a barrel if used properly. I have 9 different 50BMG barrels and have used S/S in all of them, they all still shoot well.
Ed |
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Well, fellows, thanks for all the input and I appreciate all the different thoughts on the matter. But I do have a couple of things on my mind. I hope that this is not too rude, but I did start this thread and think I should have a little leeway on something that I have noticed getting worse over the last few months .. I THINK that it is Sad that we have a few individuals that have to turn this thread (and many more like it on Ar15.com) into something bone-headed personal. I DO NOT like it when men that are gun owners (I beleive that gun ownership as a right is 2nd only to right to beleive in God), act like spoiled brat little children... Fellows, friends, lets get back to being civil with each other, otherwise let just not say anything. I am getting tired of grown men getting on Ar15.com and acting like jackasses! I do not care how hard things are in our nation, lets look at it the right way. If you can not say something without acting like a jackass (even if you are one in real life), then do not say anything at all.... Getting back to the point, I am not a match shooter and might shoot 50 rds a year. I ask for the cheapest way to clean my Grizzly. I feel that I have been given some great info and it will all, help me make up my mind. But let us remember that we need to have some manners about us..... Once Again, Thanks for the all the good info and God Bless, Matthew |
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Getting back to the point, I am not a match shooter and might shoot 50 rds a year. I ask for the cheapest way to clean my Grizzly. I feel that I have been given some great info and it will all, help me make up my mind. But let us remember that we need to have some manners about us..... Once Again, Thanks for the all the good info and God Bless, Matthew That might have been an item to mention to start with. By all means, get a shotgun cleaning kit or two. Some aqua ammonia and some hoppes #9. Go with Imtheflash's suggestion. OR, if you are on an even bigger budget, just get a 50 cal muzzleloader boresnake. -David Edgewood, NM |
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