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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - FN SCAR Availability (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 4/3/2007 8:04:06 AM EDT
| Anyone know when these will be available in dealers? |
Yep, mucho problemo with the SCAR, just not what is was reputed to be. |
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while i am not sure if its dying, not seeing any additional purchasses or photos in iraq make me wonder if this isnt just another purchase like hte MK23. you know, somthig that was suppossed to be revolutionay but never realy cought on with the operators, I think that just like the mk23, its sits in the armory and is left there for what ever reason. is it a cool concept, hell yes, will i buy both wehen availible, hell yes. but without substantial testing by units accross the DOD, its going to be tough for the SCAR to get a foothold |
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I have never come across such a misinformed group of people in my life. I wouldn't suggest AR15.com as my primary source of information on the SCAR weapon systems. Try talking with the guys attending the EUAs or the guys at Crane. The weapon system is performing as advertised and .mil will be taking delivery of the first batch of guns very shortly. To say that it's dying or that it doesn't perform is errant BS. Stephen |
| What's really pathetic is that when you try to pass along correct info and call someone out, people start complaining and those in the know start getting harassed and what-not because they are hurting others feelings. You've got to love a forum thats a haven for posers and wannabes and trouble for the professionals. |
No, you misunderstood my post. I am NOT saying that the SCAR is f'ed up, in fact, I am questioning that assertion. What I AM saying is that several folks like to make such claims and then become abruptly unreachable when confronted on it (not saying VB3 is one of them). If you want to claim it's f'ed up, then it would be wise to be able to substantiate it. Rumor, conjecture, and speculation doesn't do anybody any good. |
Dude, The folks that would ostensibly be testing the SCAR are not very photogenic; that's why you haven't seen any "photos in Iraq." Second, the "additional purchases" BS comes from a member here (Dave_A) who erroneously claims that the SCAR procurement will not proceed beyond the initial 600 units. Nothing could be further from the truth, and just to illustrate how dicked up his "info" is, the initial order is for more than 600 units. Check the time line (it's open source info); the SCAR is slated for two more T&E phases before full rate production can commence. That's why you haven't seen any "additional purchases;" who in their right mind would place an order before the T&E is concluded and the design finalized? Justin |
BIG +1 On that molson!!. Wannabes and posers, get some thick skin. Let's face it, most of the wannabes and posers wouldnt pony up the $$$$ for one if it was available. The real world is full of failure and dissapointment, it's called reality. If you get called out for bad information, its no ones fault but your own. Quit crying and whining about it...
You should read it twice, and not get your panties in a bunch...
He never said he had any information on then it was going to be available. His origonal post is a question...
Get used to it, its part of life. Sorry your itty bitty widdle feelings were hurt there. Get over it...  KyARGuy |
2008. Since SOCOM's SCAR is dying a painful death, FN will need civilian sells to recoup the loss. I seriously doubt FNSCAR has a large LEO future, but in the civilian market it should do good numbers Here are some photos of what the civilian version will resemble. Personally, I prefer the XCR, thought the H model is interesting   And here is a nice video for you www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_V2wvk2F6A |
I think the real battle for market share will be won by whoever gets their rifle to market the fastest. Given FN's slow release of the PS90 and FS2000, I'd say Magpul has a shot, if they are able to get production up without having QC issues. |
+1 on that. The Masada is promising, especially due to Magpul's excellent reputation, but the SCAR is going through exhaustive government trials and made by one of the oldest and most renowed firearms manufacturers in the world, instilling a confidence hard to match. |
I'm skeptical about all the hype over the SCAR. I'm sure it has been evaluated by "operators" all over the world, but FN's reputation for making expensive weapons and accessories (PS90 and FS2000) isn't going to bode well over the AR15 community who are looking for the latest and greatest at a decent price. A lot of the people here are smart shoppers and they're not going to spend $2500 on the SCAR if the Masada does the same thing for the half the cost. I agree with dport. Whoever gets their rifle design to market the fastest will have the best shot, especially given Magpul's reputation for some great product designs. With the rumors that FN is going to make the SCAR for MIL/LEOs first (and civilian buyers taking the back seat), the Magpul Masada is the most promising solution as of now. |
Although it may come as a surprise to some of you, AR15.com was not a factor in the design of the weapon system. The "operators" (quotation marks yours) were and are, and their needs and requests will always take priority. I don't want to get into the cost issue, but suffice it to say that there are huge costs involved in importing the weapons you mentioned and then re-working them in the US for legal public consumption. Funny thing, if they weren't available I'm sure we would see all sorts of threads stating "How much would you pay to get a civvy P-90?!". As far as cost of the SCAR - I'm not going to get into that at this point, and what these things cost isn't really my mission anyways.
Best shot at what?
This was never a rumor. The SCAR program was borne of SOCOM, and was rooted in Mil. requirements prior to that. SCAR has always been for the US Military, the SOF community in particular. To the best of my knowledge, every effort will be made to offer the weapon system and its accessories to the civilian market when the time is right - unfortunately there is alot more on everyone's plate right now.
Again, solution to what? If you posted an immediate need for the capablities offered by one or both weapons elsewhere, I missed it - my apologies. Take care all, Clint |
Majority market share. I'm leaning SCAR as of right now, just because of its .mil testing. Although, that fact alone hasn't kept me from buying other guns in the past. If you don't think market share is important. Go look for Glock accessories then try finding accessories for FN's FNP. Market share means something to the end civilian user. |
In theory, the earlier release products can win the lion's share of the market, but the internet & initial information it affords the consumer muddies this up. Most of us know what's in the future. I tend to fall into the late adopter, even pragmatic buyer category. Thus, I'm willing to wait for what I perceive to be "better" products. If FN brings its savvy to bear on the market then this SCAR will pave inroads into the established AR market, almost guaranteed. BTW - "havoc" is an engineer @ FN. Some of you, the way you talk about this FN SCAR as though you had "insider" knowledge of it - as if - are effectively engaging in what could only be characterized as like a fruitless attempt to lecture Santa Clause about Christams. That is to say, you're out of your league. |
I'm not sure how things are run at FN, but engineers usually never have the final say in the development of the product. In fact, most vendors will isolate the engineers from sales/marketing and have NDAs in place to prevent engineers from talking about their upcoming products/testing with the general public. If the Masada is as reliable as we hope, is less expensive than the SCAR (without a doubt FNH distributes some of the most overpriced hardware around), and hits the civilian market 2-3 years before the SCAR, the Masada will have a pretty good head start in the civilian market, which is important to many of the gun buyers here. The ARFCOM solution is, of course, to get both! 
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+1 Market share is also important because it means low cost accessories due to higher proliferation of said weapon system. |
You're probably right - I don't know what I was thinking. Thanks for putting me back in my place.
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Why did I suspect this would happen? |
Seriously man, only on ARFCOM do people think they know better than the ones who are in the business. This is the third time this week (that i know of even..) that people who are actually in the business get a big mouth from someone who thinks he knows better anyway. |
If you want one now, buy an XCR. You won't be disappointed. The SCAR and Masada look promising, but we have no idea when we'll really see them in our (civilian) market. As the owner of a PS90, I can tell you FN makes some nice, but very expensive stuff. |
Alex Robinson is full of shit and I know this first hand! |
I'm definitely on the market for one of these. Either the H or L. Currently I have an LMT MRP set up and I love it. But I've wanted to try these out ever since I first saw them. Everything I've read on them says the T&E has been extremely strenuous and that it is a solid rifle. There were some pictures on Lightfighter.net of what the civilian models would look like with 18" barrels, hopefully 16" barrels will be made available as well ^_^; Now I just need a date. j |
| The Magpul Masada looks much more promising than the SCAR (if it ever becomes available for the civilian market). Someone else had the right idea to get all 3, but the SCAR L and SCAR H will undoubtedly cost a LOT more than the Magpul Masada. If it says "FN Herstal" it will be expensive, even if it is a chain with a brush attached to it (aka cleaning kit for the P90). |
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JMO: Mass full-scale mass production of a complete rifle will probably be new ground for Magpul. If they keep it as their own product, I suspect outsource component mfg. will figure prominantly in the mfg & business model. Guessing a price point a price point for any of these is an exercise in pure conjecture. FN would seem to have an advantage in the mass production aspect, while Magpul, being a smaller firm, is better able to adapt quickly to changing mfg & market conditions. SCAR is beyond the proof-of-concept phase & probably in production release state at this juncture, while MASADA is still a work in progress. Again, given Magpul's relative small size & less associated bureaucratic overhead, they can move the design to release phase comparatively quickly if no bugs crop up. In my mind, mass production could be the bigger hurdle for it. But what the hell do I know? |
I am still grumpy after paying $50 for my PS90 brass catcher, which is a piece of canvas with a bent coat-hanger sewn into it.  I am more mad at myself for not having the 3 requisite brain cells it took to design that part. |
I would like a SCAR-H to go with my XCR. Hopefully FN will beef up the barrel and add another couple of inches of rail for the SCAR-H. Having a SCAR-H and XCR-L at the same time would make me a very happy camper... |
true , but it does work well at least, and there is two peices of spring steel in the bottom that opens up when the front and back edges are squeezed...making it dump its brass without taking it off the carbine. |
| I am not a professional; I don't post much here because basically you learn from reading and thinking. Anyway, besides the quick change barrel(which I think, might be a dubious benefit for a civilian like me)what about the SCAR-H is that much better than a FAL carbine with a forward rail? |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - FN SCAR Availability (Page 1 of 2)
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