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How was I to know she was with the Russians, too?
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Originally Posted By M16Cowboy:
9507049, New unfired M16A1. just transfered it out for a customer. |
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How was I to know she was with the Russians, too?
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Originally Posted By dragpo:
What do you guys make of this? https://i.imgur.com/ax0cqi1.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Gb3o4xF.jpg M16A1 markings but no fence, and "Fire" rather than "Semi" It never left Hartford like that. The serial number is high enough that it would have been one of the last transferable M16A1s made by Colt, and that isn't just an uncatalogued configuration: It incorporates design changes that Colt used on SP1s to differentiate them from full-autos. It is most probably some sort of frankenColt. |
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When (what year) did Colt start shipping 9 million series M16s ? I have read several places that the 9 million range was 1970s and early 80s. I just pulled the trigger on 9027870 on Spiwak's website. It is a M16 stamped receiver. It appears that the upper (non forward assist) does not have any forge marks on upper receiver, which I have read means it would be pre-1971. Have not been able to confirm this though. It looks like this serial number is one of the lowest in the 9 million guns in this thread. Is it safe to assume that all the 6061 M16 receivers would be out of the pipeline prior to the start of the 9 million series ? My understanding is that Colt switched to 7075 in 1968. Thanks in advance for any insight. |
How was I to know she was with the Russians, too?
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Originally Posted By phawbaker:
When (what year) did Colt start shipping 9 million series M16s ? I have read several places that the 9 million range was 1970s and early 80s. I just pulled the trigger on 9027870 on Spiwak's website. It is a M16 stamped receiver. It appears that the upper (non forward assist) does not have any forge marks on upper receiver, which I have read means it would be pre-1971. Have not been able to confirm this though. It looks like this serial number is one of the lowest in the 9 million guns in this thread. Is it safe to assume that all the 6061 M16 receivers would be out of the pipeline prior to the start of the 9 million series ? My understanding is that Colt switched to 7075 in 1968. Thanks in advance for any insight. And this is why I really, really, really, really really, really wish registered owners of Colt M16s would take a few minutes and file an FOIA. It costs nothing more than the stamp to send it to ATF, and it could be such a tremendous help to all of your fellow Colt M16 owners! Forget "the kids" -- do it for us!!!!! (tony k pauses and takes a deep breath. OK.) As far as your particular gun goes, the lower receiver is an early to mid-1970's manufacture. But do not even try to date it by the upper -- the gun is almost a half-century old, and any presumption that it still has the original issued upper is useless. And even if that is the upper that it left Hartford wearing, the upper may had been in inventory for a decade before Colt grabbed it off a shelf and put it on a much newer-manufacture lower to fulfill a law-enforcement contract (which never specified things like "uppers must have been manufactured within a certain period"). All Colt promised buyers is that the gun was new. And this was pretty common: Colt routinely manufactured batches of uppers one year, batches of lowers at another time, and only assembled them into a complete firearm when a new contract came in. Congrats on your new Colt M16! Enjoy! And please, I beg you, file an FOIA request and find out the date that the Form 2 was filed by Colt!!!! |
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How was I to know she was with the Russians, too?
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Fortunately or unfortunately, only the registered owner can get an FOIA response letter. But it will give you: The date the Form 2 was filed by Colt; the original configuration of length, which confirms whether it was built as a rifle or carbine; and the number and type of owners (their names will be redacted out, but Form 5 transfers are either to/from LE/gov entities, Form 3's are between dealers, etc., plus the date that those occurred, so it is IMHO useful info. I know that mine was "born" on March 7, 1978, so that gives me a date to "celebrate" -- and since I bought her in 1994, I know she was Sweet Sixteen when she moved in with me.  I also know that she was initially shipped by Colt to an LE agency, then to two dealers in a row, before I purchased her. So I'm the first civilian owner.
If you do get an FOIA, please share it with us or at least with me for the Registry. Since yours is a very low number, it will be the first FOIA I have from one made that early, and will help to date when the 9-mil run began. Thanks! |
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Originally Posted By tony_k:
Which configuration was it in? Rifle, carbine, HBAR, etc? Did it still have the box, and the wick in the barrel? Just useful info for my database, thanks. Originally Posted By tony_k:
Originally Posted By M16Cowboy:
9507049, New unfired M16A1. just transfered it out for a customer. |
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Gentlemen; thx to welcome me in your outstanding interesting forum. I am from France ( nobody's perfect!) I just got a original M16A1 with serial number 9 384 725 to completre my AR15 and 300 AAC serie. This weapon never fired a bullet looking at the "virgin" hammer and barrel. Could anybody help me to give a date for this M16? It is a late 70's or early 80's serie I guess but no way to find morte info. Thx in advance King Regards Acar67 |
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Originally Posted By Acar67:
Gentlemen; thx to welcome me in your outstanding interesting forum. I am from France ( nobody's perfect!) I just got a original M16A1 with serial number 9 384 725 to completre my AR15 and 300 AAC serie. This weapon never fired a bullet looking at the "virgin" hammer and barrel. Could anybody help me to give a date for this M16? It is a late 70's or early 80's serie I guess but no way to find morte info. Thx in advance King Regards Acar67 |
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Originally Posted By dragpo:
Wait, so you live in France and own a machine gun? but I have the same exact rifle because here in Italy its legal to permanently convert MG into SA guns. European market has been flooded with NOS M16A1s in the last few years. Here you can have an idea of what we can get: http://www.nuovajager.it/armi-lunghe.asp?tipo=Ex%20ordinanza%20post%201945 ETA: btw, mine has sn 9396056 in standard M16A1 configuration (20'' pencil barrel, birdcage FH, M16A1 rollmarked, w FA, no brass deflector, etc). Ive seen sn 9404265 in the same config but with a 3 prong FH 
and from the above dealer website, sn 9379783 has been converted into a 13'' Menusar carbine from the IDF. |
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M16 Rollmarked SN 907841X, CAL. 5.56MM, SAFE-SEMI-AUTO, Hammer marked "C in a circle"
COLT'S FIREARM DIVISION COLT INDUSTRIES HARTFORD, CONN U.S.A. Trap-door buttstock, top slotted screw has drilled hole CH (Harvey) forge marked A1 upper with tear-drop forward assist, triangle hand guards, side sling mount 20" pencil barrel and three-prong flash hider. Barrel marked C MP CHROME BORE Bolt carrier marked C. Bolt marked MPC. Bolt shows minimal wear. Excellent overall condition with uniform dark grey anodizing. Is this a 1:12 or 1:14 barrel? I "assume" production somewhere in early to mid 1970's? I will FOIA at some point and report back. Looks like SN 9M up to 9,0XX,XXX are typically M16 roll-marked and somewhere near 9,1XX,XXX changed to M16A1. Great, long-running, highly informative string. Thank You. |
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We’ll have to resurrect an old thread here. I’m inquiring on a rifle I have. Colt m16a1 hbar. Serial 9594040 I saw this serial is already in the list and it says looks like refinished based on the pictures. I’m wondering where this info came from ? I have another a1 rifle that’s not on this list anywhere. It’s a factory carbine. |
How was I to know she was with the Russians, too?
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Originally Posted By Hoplites: We’ll have to resurrect an old thread here. I’m inquiring on a rifle I have. Colt m16a1 hbar. Serial 9594040 I saw this serial is already in the list and it says looks like refinished based on the pictures. I’m wondering where this info came from ? I have another a1 rifle that’s not on this list anywhere. It’s a factory carbine. Hoplites, I created this list over many decades of research. I cannot remember every single entry, but the "refinished based on the pictures" would either be due to it appearing in an ad that was commented upon by folks whose opinion I trust, or from something I saw in the photos myself. I've been studying and researching M16's since back when they were all still called AR15s, and there are many, many subtle clues to a refinish, so you can consider it a semi-expert opinion ... but certainly not conclusive. If you want to message me, I'd be glad to give you my personal email, and would be glad to reexamine any closeup photos you could provide. Also, if you would like to have your factory carbine entered into this list, message (or email as above) the spec details and SN, and I will add it. One of the reasons I created this list was because so many 9-mil-SN M16 variants were exported, and thus can never be reimported except as parts kits or post-'86 dealer samples. Ideally, one day we would be able to list all of the transferable ones left in circulation. Thanks for your input. |
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Hopefully this is a relevant question - m16a2 from 75RR in Somalia: Would they be US Property marked? No alphabetical serial prefix, 7 digit S/N? |
I wouldn't stand in front of a piss-filled supersoaker. Does that make it a good pistol? - Caboose314
I thought I was covered for 22 cans, but the NFAids is a bitch when it mutates - themagikbullet
I thought I was covered for 22 cans, but the NFAids is a bitch when it mutates - themagikbullet
How was I to know she was with the Russians, too?
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Originally Posted By bradpierson26: Hopefully this is a relevant question - m16a2 from 75RR in Somalia: Would they be US Property marked? No alphabetical serial prefix, 7 digit S/N? It could be, or it couldn't be. Depends on how that particular M16a2 got there. Colt does fill direct sales orders from other countries, and those are not U.S. Property marked because .gov was not involved in the sale. Alternatively, U.S. .gov does on occasion supply U.S. Property-marked M16s to friendly governments to help them fight terrorists etc. |
This is Tony K, and I approved this message.
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Originally Posted By tony_k: It could be, or it couldn't be. Depends on how that particular M16a2 got there. Colt does fill direct sales orders from other countries, and those are not U.S. Property marked because .gov was not involved in the sale. Alternatively, U.S. .gov does on occasion supply U.S. Property-marked M16s to friendly governments to help them fight terrorists etc. Originally Posted By tony_k: Originally Posted By bradpierson26: Hopefully this is a relevant question - m16a2 from 75RR in Somalia: Would they be US Property marked? No alphabetical serial prefix, 7 digit S/N? It could be, or it couldn't be. Depends on how that particular M16a2 got there. Colt does fill direct sales orders from other countries, and those are not U.S. Property marked because .gov was not involved in the sale. Alternatively, U.S. .gov does on occasion supply U.S. Property-marked M16s to friendly governments to help them fight terrorists etc. Let’s back up… I’m presuming 75RR brought their own guns into country on deployment - those would have been .gov issued, right? Let’s go down that path just for giggles Army issued m16a2 to 75RR, it’s at least possible/plausible for them to have been US Proprty marked, 7 digit numerical S/N, right? That would not be “wrong” by historical standards, correct? |
I wouldn't stand in front of a piss-filled supersoaker. Does that make it a good pistol? - Caboose314
I thought I was covered for 22 cans, but the NFAids is a bitch when it mutates - themagikbullet
I thought I was covered for 22 cans, but the NFAids is a bitch when it mutates - themagikbullet
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