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Posted: 7/11/2013 9:27:06 PM EDT
| Im looking to get into MG's (Pre 1986) and I just want to know what my options are. I don't have a budget yet so knowing pricing would be good to get a good feel for it. So what are my choices gentleman and ladies? |
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I'm just wondering how old are you and how long have you been into guns.  All it has been is bolts and lever guns. Never actually new what a AR was until I joined here and now I want to learn more on the NFA side of things. I honestly don't know what the MG options are.   Remember, in my family, my mom has preached black guns are bad juju but I have learned otherwise.
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Fuck it, first there is the ? of money, you can get into a UZI style mac 10 mac 11 or some other variant in the 4000-5000 range for something basic.
AR lowers or full machine guns in the 15,000 range, I've seen drop in sears for 10-12 a couple years back. But if I were going to spend in the 15k range it would be a HK sear, they fit alot of shit and there is not much cooler than full auto HK. PS I hate HK but the sears fit 5-6 guns from the mp5 up to the hk 91. You could always buy one of the few tranferable MiniGuns. |
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Your cheapest option are the MAC family MAC-10, M11s, M11/9s. These can be had for as low as the upper $3000s to the low $5,000s.
In between the MACs pricepoint of ~$4000 and $10,000 are the Reisings, S&W76s, M2s carbines, Stens, Sterlings, AC556s, and right at the top of that 10K range lie the Uzi, the FNC and the Lightning Link. At the 15K pricepoint you start to get into non-colt M16s, Aug Sears, 1919s, AO thompons, and AKs in the high teens. North of $20,000 are real Colt M16s, M16 drop in auto sears, M2HBs, WW2 Thompsons, and HK Sears Guns start to show up. 30K and up is going original Colt Thompsons, really nice or exotic HK Sear host guns like MP5/10s, M16A2s, war captures, and beltfed land (M60, MG38, MG42, HK21/23E, etc) This is just a general guideline as there are always guns above and below these ranges based on condition, etc. |
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Check out subguns.com. Pm me with any questions. You will want to read a lot and do research before you buy, they are fun but expensive.
Process is not that difficult once you figure it out. You just want to know who you are doing business with and you have to be very patient. I once waited 2 years for a class iii item after I paid for it. There are others who have waited longer. |
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Dont forget, yeah the gun is expensive but then you have to feed it. I usually only take 2 full autos when I go to the range, usually a belt fed and a mag fed and for 2-3 hours of fun its 400 bucks $400? I like your style I take 350 rounds of 9mm and a brick of 22, worth I guess around $95 total that lasts me a good 1.5 to 2 hours If I reloaded I could shoot more like 550 rounds of 9mm and the brick of 22 |
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Your cheapest option are the MAC family MAC-10, M11s, M11/9s. These can be had for as low as the upper $3000s to the low $5,000s. In between the MACs pricepoint of ~$4000 and $10,000 are the Reisings, S&W76s, M2s carbines, Stens, Sterlings, AC556s, and right at the top of that 10K range lie the Uzi, the FNC and the Lightning Link. At the 15K pricepoint you start to get into non-colt M16s, Aug Sears, 1919s, AO thompons, and AKs in the high teens. North of $20,000 are real Colt M16s, M16 drop in auto sears, M2HBs, WW2 Thompsons, and HK Sears Guns start to show up. 30K and up is going original Colt Thompsons, really nice or exotic HK Sear host guns like MP5/10s, M16A2s, war captures, and beltfed land (M60, MG38, MG42, HK21/23E, etc) This is just a general guideline as there are always guns above and below these ranges based on condition, etc. This is right on the money except for your first gun I would focus on MAC, UZI, M16 and to a lesser degree Thompson you want something with lots of spare parts and cheap magazines and preferably cheapish ammo and maybe a decent 22 kit You forgot the FA 10/22 trigger packs in your UZI grouping. On a side note, I want to know why the price of a full auto 10/22 is always $9000. It's like the light speed constant of MG prices. |
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Your cheapest option are the MAC family MAC-10, M11s, M11/9s. These can be had for as low as the upper $3000s to the low $5,000s. In between the MACs pricepoint of ~$4000 and $10,000 are the Reisings, S&W76s, M2s carbines, Stens, Sterlings, AC556s, and right at the top of that 10K range lie the Uzi, the FNC and the Lightning Link. At the 15K pricepoint you start to get into non-colt M16s, Aug Sears, 1919s, AO thompons, and AKs in the high teens. North of $20,000 are real Colt M16s, M16 drop in auto sears, M2HBs, WW2 Thompsons, and HK Sears Guns start to show up. 30K and up is going original Colt Thompsons, really nice or exotic HK Sear host guns like MP5/10s, M16A2s, war captures, and beltfed land (M60, MG38, MG42, HK21/23E, etc) This is just a general guideline as there are always guns above and below these ranges based on condition, etc. This is right on the money except for your first gun I would focus on MAC, UZI, M16 and to a lesser degree Thompson you want something with lots of spare parts and cheap magazines and preferably cheapish ammo and maybe a decent 22 kit You forgot the FA 10/22 trigger packs in your UZI grouping. On a side note, I want to know why the price of a full auto 10/22 is always $9000. It's like the light speed constant of MG prices. The list above is by far not inclusive. As you mentioned you have Norrell 10/22s but also Swedish Ks, American 180s, MP40s, Lanchesters, MK760s, BM59s, FALs, AR180s......all in the 5K to 15K range. I tried to just hit on the most popular models that first time buyers usually focus on. |
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I think i would include swedish Ks and 10/22 in the list for the newbies With current Swedish K prices going anywhere from a little over $8k all the way to $11,500?? I dont see how this can be a good newbie MG.. This website is a good place to check prices of transferable MGs. http://machinegunpriceguide.com/ |
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What guns would the HK Sear work in? AUG Sear guns? What other Sears are there that can be used in more than 1 firearm? HK Sears will mechanically and legally work in any 9X series "roller-locked" semi auto including but not limited to HK91, HK93, HK94, & SP89 and clones thereof. They will also work in HK21 conversions of HK91s and MM23e/21e clones. Aug Sears will work in semi auto Augs (A1, A2, & A3 variants) and TPD Aug Clones, and maybe MSAR Aug clones. M16 drop in Auto Sears and Registered Lightning Link work in any AR15 or clone thereof. There are also Uzi bolts which can be used in semi-auto Uzi receivers. Norrell 10/22 sears can be used in any 10/22 or 10/22 clone. FNC Sears work in FNCs (there are no clones) I may be missing some sears but those are the bulk of what is out there. |
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What guns would the HK Sear work in? AUG Sear guns? What other Sears are there that can be used in more than 1 firearm? HK Sears will mechanically and legally work in any 9X series "roller-locked" semi auto including but not limited to HK91, HK93, HK94, & SP89 and clones thereof. They will also work in HK21 conversions of HK91s and MM23e/21e clones. Aug Sears will work in semi auto Augs (A1, A2, & A3 variants) and TPD Aug Clones, and maybe MSAR Aug clones. M16 drop in Auto Sears and Registered Lightning Link work in any AR15 or clone thereof. There are also Uzi bolts which can be used in semi-auto Uzi receivers. Norrell 10/22 sears can be used in any 10/22 or 10/22 clone. FNC Sears work in FNCs (there are no clones) I may be missing some sears but those are the bulk of what is out there. Have you seen this? http://www.machinegunarmory.com.....It accepts HK trigger packs I've been pushing my buddy to buy one.... |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What guns would the HK Sear work in? AUG Sear guns? What other Sears are there that can be used in more than 1 firearm? HK Sears will mechanically and legally work in any 9X series "roller-locked" semi auto including but not limited to HK91, HK93, HK94, & SP89 and clones thereof. They will also work in HK21 conversions of HK91s and MM23e/21e clones. Aug Sears will work in semi auto Augs (A1, A2, & A3 variants) and TPD Aug Clones, and maybe MSAR Aug clones. M16 drop in Auto Sears and Registered Lightning Link work in any AR15 or clone thereof. There are also Uzi bolts which can be used in semi-auto Uzi receivers. Norrell 10/22 sears can be used in any 10/22 or 10/22 clone. FNC Sears work in FNCs (there are no clones) I may be missing some sears but those are the bulk of what is out there. Have you seen this? http://www.machinegunarmory.com.....It accepts HK trigger packs I've been pushing my buddy to buy one.... They have a weird price table. Buy this we will send it in 3 months and mail it back save$2500. And the whole semi gun is $12,800? Shit that is some change
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What guns would the HK Sear work in? AUG Sear guns? What other Sears are there that can be used in more than 1 firearm? HK Sears will mechanically and legally work in any 9X series "roller-locked" semi auto including but not limited to HK91, HK93, HK94, & SP89 and clones thereof. They will also work in HK21 conversions of HK91s and MM23e/21e clones. Aug Sears will work in semi auto Augs (A1, A2, & A3 variants) and TPD Aug Clones, and maybe MSAR Aug clones. M16 drop in Auto Sears and Registered Lightning Link work in any AR15 or clone thereof. There are also Uzi bolts which can be used in semi-auto Uzi receivers. Norrell 10/22 sears can be used in any 10/22 or 10/22 clone. FNC Sears work in FNCs (there are no clones) I may be missing some sears but those are the bulk of what is out there. Have you seen this? http://www.machinegunarmory.com.....It accepts HK trigger packs I've been pushing my buddy to buy one.... They have a weird price table. Buy this we will send it in 3 months and mail it back save$2500. And the whole semi gun is $12,800? Shit that is some change Yeah, I don't get that either, they are trying to beat a dead line in Ca, I had no clue you could own a BF there..lol. I was thinking you could buy the receiver for $5k and a FN parts gun and have like $7k+/- in it but I'm not sure how the FN bolt and other parts would work in their receiver, since the offer a closed bolt design. I'd hold out for a $12.8k complete gun before I went that route. |
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What guns would the HK Sear work in? AUG Sear guns? What other Sears are there that can be used in more than 1 firearm? HK Sears will mechanically and legally work in any 9X series "roller-locked" semi auto including but not limited to HK91, HK93, HK94, & SP89 and clones thereof. They will also work in HK21 conversions of HK91s and MM23e/21e clones. Aug Sears will work in semi auto Augs (A1, A2, & A3 variants) and TPD Aug Clones, and maybe MSAR Aug clones. M16 drop in Auto Sears and Registered Lightning Link work in any AR15 or clone thereof. There are also Uzi bolts which can be used in semi-auto Uzi receivers. Norrell 10/22 sears can be used in any 10/22 or 10/22 clone. FNC Sears work in FNCs (there are no clones) I may be missing some sears but those are the bulk of what is out there. Have you seen this? http://www.machinegunarmory.com.....It accepts HK trigger packs I've been pushing my buddy to buy one.... I have. They have been around for about 5 years or so. While mechanically they will work with an HK Sear I have never seen a legal clarification on this. I can only presume that if you are the owner of machinegun armory and wanted to sell a bunch of guns they would have clarified this position with the ATF and posted the approval letter on your website and have every HK Sear owner out there wanting to buy your semi M249. Instead they have had an ever changing legal mumbo-jumbo on there website over the years "hinting" that you can do this but that you are accepting the legal liability. Under the Legal Issues section on their site you find Can I use my registered sear in your gun? Our MGA MK46 MOD1 and MOD2 firearms are often called "H&K Host Guns", because owners of legal sear packs and sears can swap their trigger packs between their H&K Host Guns. For example, such owners often move their packs between an 21E clone, MP5 clone, etc. Usually, a small part swap is required: a different ejector, or a different hammer, and sometimes a different trigger housing, but the basic legal unit, the H&K Sear Trigger Pack is the legal "machine gun" and this is legally moved from host to host as the owner sees fit. Our guns are similar to all of those H&K Host Guns and we often sell our Title-1 semi-autos to training ranges, machine gun rental facilities, Hollywood production companies, who then legally "Form 2" their trigger packs and/or sears in order to legally convert the gun to the full-auto/select-fire versions. We do sell these guns already set up for fully automatic and/or burst pack fire but only to Law Enforcement and Military groups with discretionary funds. But because of complex legal nature of the Civilian market (laws that change from state to state), we ONLY sell the semi-auto Title-1 gun to civilians (where legal - and now we have a California-legal version). The new owner can then do he sees as fit and legal to do in his state and with his H&K Specialist/Expert. ] Another spot mentions using transferable sears but doesn't clarify the legality. If they really wanted to clear on this point you could have just answered the question with "Yes, transferable HK Auto Sears are legal to use in our M249s and the link the ATF letter on this matter is here" Add to that they don't have the best reputation in terms of reliability / part breakage and their support is supposed to be pretty difficult to non-existent from what I have read. I have been tempted to buy one myself and the few times I have called MGA to discuss and/or buy some M249 parts nobody answers the phone and messages are never returned. As much as Ares isn't a peach to deal with, at least somebody always answers the phone. Michaels Machines always answers the phone and talking to Mike isn't difficult. So you are taking a $12,000 risk regarding whether it is legal to use your sear in it. They obviously have some part supply issues as they offer multiple wait out periods purchase periods to get your complete gun with different discounts depending upon how long and how much risk you want to take. Not sure who would take either of the other options where you could be left with a receiver and no parts. In my opinion if you want an M249 type gun, buy a DIAS and a Ares Shrike. If you have an HK Sear than just buy an MM23e. Both are available now, have a better legal standing that the MGA M249, and you can get parts if you need them. |
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What guns would the HK Sear work in? AUG Sear guns? What other Sears are there that can be used in more than 1 firearm? HK Sears will mechanically and legally work in any 9X series "roller-locked" semi auto including but not limited to HK91, HK93, HK94, & SP89 and clones thereof. They will also work in HK21 conversions of HK91s and MM23e/21e clones. Aug Sears will work in semi auto Augs (A1, A2, & A3 variants) and TPD Aug Clones, and maybe MSAR Aug clones. M16 drop in Auto Sears and Registered Lightning Link work in any AR15 or clone thereof. There are also Uzi bolts which can be used in semi-auto Uzi receivers. Norrell 10/22 sears can be used in any 10/22 or 10/22 clone. FNC Sears work in FNCs (there are no clones) I may be missing some sears but those are the bulk of what is out there. Have you seen this? http://www.machinegunarmory.com.....It accepts HK trigger packs I've been pushing my buddy to buy one.... The MGA 249 is NOT legal to use with a transferable sear. You can use it with a post sample sear, or make it a post sample itself, but its not legal to run full auto with a transferable HK sear/pack. |
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What guns would the HK Sear work in? AUG Sear guns? What other Sears are there that can be used in more than 1 firearm? HK Sears will mechanically and legally work in any 9X series "roller-locked" semi auto including but not limited to HK91, HK93, HK94, & SP89 and clones thereof. They will also work in HK21 conversions of HK91s and MM23e/21e clones. Aug Sears will work in semi auto Augs (A1, A2, & A3 variants) and TPD Aug Clones, and maybe MSAR Aug clones. M16 drop in Auto Sears and Registered Lightning Link work in any AR15 or clone thereof. There are also Uzi bolts which can be used in semi-auto Uzi receivers. Norrell 10/22 sears can be used in any 10/22 or 10/22 clone. FNC Sears work in FNCs (there are no clones) I may be missing some sears but those are the bulk of what is out there. Have you seen this? http://www.machinegunarmory.com.....It accepts HK trigger packs I've been pushing my buddy to buy one.... The MGA 249 is NOT legal to use with a transferable sear. You can use it with a post sample sear, or make it a post sample itself, but its not legal to run full auto with a transferable HK sear/pack. It seems like more of an unanswered question to me at this point. MGA definitely hint that it would be legal but I suspect they are going off the ask forgiveness than permission model. Can I use my registered sear? We use registered Flemming-style sears and registered H&K packs (on ATF Form 2 in most cases but also transferables) in our line of law enforcement and military weapons. Granted they don't say that in doing so the transferable becomes a post sample or the receiver itself it already registered as a post-sample, they know they breaking the law but have not been caught, or they just have no idea whether it is legal or not but go ahead anyway. All that said I have never personally seen a letter from the tech branch stating it is illegal to use a transferable sear in a MGA 249. Based on the other tech branch rulings about moving sears outside the immediate host family my money would be on a less than favorable reply should somebody write them and ask, but conversely I have personally never seen a specific response either way from the ATF regarding this combination either. |
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What guns would the HK Sear work in? AUG Sear guns? What other Sears are there that can be used in more than 1 firearm? HK Sears will mechanically and legally work in any 9X series "roller-locked" semi auto including but not limited to HK91, HK93, HK94, & SP89 and clones thereof. They will also work in HK21 conversions of HK91s and MM23e/21e clones. Aug Sears will work in semi auto Augs (A1, A2, & A3 variants) and TPD Aug Clones, and maybe MSAR Aug clones. M16 drop in Auto Sears and Registered Lightning Link work in any AR15 or clone thereof. There are also Uzi bolts which can be used in semi-auto Uzi receivers. Norrell 10/22 sears can be used in any 10/22 or 10/22 clone. FNC Sears work in FNCs (there are no clones) I may be missing some sears but those are the bulk of what is out there. Have you seen this? http://www.machinegunarmory.com.....It accepts HK trigger packs I've been pushing my buddy to buy one.... The MGA 249 is NOT legal to use with a transferable sear. You can use it with a post sample sear, or make it a post sample itself, but its not legal to run full auto with a transferable HK sear/pack. It seems like more of an unanswered question to me at this point. MGA definitely hint that it would be legal but I suspect they are going off the ask forgiveness than permission model. Can I use my registered sear? We use registered Flemming-style sears and registered H&K packs (on ATF Form 2 in most cases but also transferables) in our line of law enforcement and military weapons. Granted they don't say that in doing so the transferable becomes a post sample or the receiver itself it already registered as a post-sample, they know they breaking the law but have not been caught, or they just have no idea whether it is legal or not but go ahead anyway. All that said I have never personally seen a letter from the tech branch stating it is illegal to use a transferable sear in a MGA 249. Based on the other tech branch rulings about moving sears outside the immediate host family my money would be on a less than favorable reply should somebody write them and ask, but conversely I have personally never seen a specific response either way from the ATF regarding this combination either. MGA used to have the tech letter posted on their website, and they stated that their gun was NOT legal to run with a transferable sear, and installing such would make a post sample MG. That didn't bode too well for sales, and the website was amended. |
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What guns would the HK Sear work in? AUG Sear guns? What other Sears are there that can be used in more than 1 firearm? HK Sears will mechanically and legally work in any 9X series "roller-locked" semi auto including but not limited to HK91, HK93, HK94, & SP89 and clones thereof. They will also work in HK21 conversions of HK91s and MM23e/21e clones. Aug Sears will work in semi auto Augs (A1, A2, & A3 variants) and TPD Aug Clones, and maybe MSAR Aug clones. M16 drop in Auto Sears and Registered Lightning Link work in any AR15 or clone thereof. There are also Uzi bolts which can be used in semi-auto Uzi receivers. Norrell 10/22 sears can be used in any 10/22 or 10/22 clone. FNC Sears work in FNCs (there are no clones) I may be missing some sears but those are the bulk of what is out there. Have you seen this? http://www.machinegunarmory.com.....It accepts HK trigger packs I've been pushing my buddy to buy one.... The MGA 249 is NOT legal to use with a transferable sear. You can use it with a post sample sear, or make it a post sample itself, but its not legal to run full auto with a transferable HK sear/pack. It seems like more of an unanswered question to me at this point. MGA definitely hint that it would be legal but I suspect they are going off the ask forgiveness than permission model. Can I use my registered sear? We use registered Flemming-style sears and registered H&K packs (on ATF Form 2 in most cases but also transferables) in our line of law enforcement and military weapons. Granted they don't say that in doing so the transferable becomes a post sample or the receiver itself it already registered as a post-sample, they know they breaking the law but have not been caught, or they just have no idea whether it is legal or not but go ahead anyway. All that said I have never personally seen a letter from the tech branch stating it is illegal to use a transferable sear in a MGA 249. Based on the other tech branch rulings about moving sears outside the immediate host family my money would be on a less than favorable reply should somebody write them and ask, but conversely I have personally never seen a specific response either way from the ATF regarding this combination either. MGA used to have the tech letter posted on their website, and they stated that their gun was NOT legal to run with a transferable sear, and installing such would make a post sample MG. That didn't bode too well for sales, and the website was amended. Seems like they are playing a dangerous game with people freedom if they have a tech branch letter in hand but play games with the verbiage on their site hinting at legality. I guess another reason not to do business with them based on everything else I have heard negative over the years. |
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I think i would include swedish Ks and 10/22 in the list for the newbies With current Swedish K prices going anywhere from a little over $8k all the way to $11,500?? I dont see how this can be a good newbie MG.. This website is a good place to check prices of transferable MGs. http://machinegunpriceguide.com/ It's not a list of newbie guns, it's a summary list of commonly available MGs |
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