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Doooooooooeeeeeeeetttttt!!!!!!



When I was looking for a belt fed, people said to do the 1919 if I wanted to stay under $20k. If I wanted to go over $20k, to save up and get a pig. That was pretty much the standard answer from everyone I talked too. I ended up with a pig, so I guess you can tell I took the advise.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/ar15gift.jpg

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They made a M60 that ran on 30-06??

must be nice..... wish I had 29K to buy one.  

good luck on your purchase.  Hope it works out for you.  I am jealous

Rob

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I'm contemplating a M60 Purchase this coming year.  But I know nothing about the platform except for the fact that it is a derivative of the MG42 system.  I'm certain there are some of you out here that have M60s, please educate me on the pros, cons, and pitfalls when it comes to getting one of these.

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jbntex and I both had our M60E4s at the last Dallas machine gun, so you should come check them out and test-fire them at the next one.
 

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What sorts of things do I need to look for or watch out for when buying one?  How do I tell one that was "driven hard and put away wet" from a safe queen?

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Here are a few things:

1.  Get the five (?) article series on the M60 published in SAR a few years ago.  Some good info there.
2.  Look for a tight, straight receiver.  Gas tube should be solidly attached to trunnion, not loose.  Rails welded to trunnion is a positive in my book.
3.  Barrels should fit tight in the trunnion, but should be removable without using too much force.
4.  Check condition of op rod, bolt, and barrel extension.  Chips/cracks can develop in wear areas on all three.  All are replaceable, but they ain't giving them away.

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Here are a few things:



1.  Get the five (?) article series on the M60 published in SAR a few years ago.  Some good info there.

2.  Look for a tight, straight receiver.  Gas tube should be solidly attached to trunnion, not loose.  Rails welded to trunnion is a positive in my book.

3.  Barrels should fit tight in the trunnion, but should be removable without using too much force.

4.  Check condition of op rod, bolt, and barrel extension.  Chips/cracks can develop in wear areas on all three.  All are replaceable, but they ain't giving them away.

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I have the SAR articles.

jbntex and I both have the mil-spec receiver stretch gage.

We can show you other things about firing and maintaining the pig.

Where are you located?
 

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I would second everything everybody has mentioned so far.

1.  Check the barrel socket for any signs of wear of if the barrel is "loose" in the barrel socket.  If there are any sleeves or repairs to the barrel socket than run away.
2.  Check the trunnion to rail welds for any signs of stress or cracks.
3.  Check to make sure that trunion has not been rewelded (unless you are specifically looking for a reweld gun but I would stay away from them personally)
4.  You can purchase a receiver stretch gauge or if you are serious about purchasing a 60 I am more than willing to lend you my gauge and give you the instructions.
5. Check the lower grip frame to receiver fit and make sure there is not any forward/back or muzzle to bustock directional play.  Also inspect the sheet metal where the rear tang of the grip frame enters the receiver.
6. If the trunion to rails have not been welded as is the case with some of original maremont guns make sure that the rivets are all tight and there is any not play in the sheet metal receiver channel  to trunnion fit.  There is actualy a test in the M60 armorers manual.

Given the cost of what you are contemplating purchasing I would highly suggest a personal inspection even if it involves an airline ticket and do some reading on the aforementioned SAR articles as well as all the military armory manuals to understand all the components.  If you need the SAR articles or the Military Technical Manuals I am sure that either HRT4ME or I can provide you will all of them.

As for what I would personally look for in a M60.  

Depending upon the depth of your wallet the best of breed is going to be a low mileage original uncut Marmont reciever gun. These usually run 35K and up depending upon condition and configuration.  
Next in line would a factory Rock Island Arsenal Gun in my opnion.  This is what HRT4ME and I both have.  These are factory machineguns but were not produced by a military contractor/vendor.
Very close in line after that would be a gun put together by a individual C2 but who used a Maremont Trunnion and as many Maremont/Saco parts as possible.  These guns could be of equal or better quality than a RIA, it just depends on who put it together and the quality they put into the build.
Next down the totem pole would be random guns put together by C2s that either fabbed their own parts and milled their own trunions.
Last on my list would be a reweld gun of any type.

I came to the conclusion that one step down the scale was the best bang for the buck for me personally and went with a low mileage RIA gun that was converted to E4 Specs and have been extremely happy with it.  A remanufactured gun with military parts can also be an extremely  good buy, especially with a nice uncut Maremont trunnion,  but there is more variability out there vs. the RIA guns which are more consistent in terms of build quality.


Whatever you purchase I think the money is well spent (5 to 7K) to convert the gun over to M60E4 Specs.  A lot of people have M60 woes that are using original or older E3 military surplus parts.  Do yourself a favor and get a kit from US ORd that basicaly rebuilds the gun from the ground up will all new and modern parts.  The E4 topcover alone is worth the money not to mention protecting your investment in the receiver by having all known good quality parts in it vs. 20 year old / potentially made by the lowest government bidder parts.  

I am sure a lot of folks with disagree with me and have classic M60s that run just fine, but my personal M60 has never missed a beat and just runs and so does HRT4MEs gun.  Personally, I don't want to drive 3 hours to go shooting to then have to try and debug/repair a tempermental $30K gun at the range.  Witha new kit from US ORD you wont have to worry in my experience as long as you start with a decent receiver.

I am more than willing to let folks shoot my M60 but am not sure the next time I will be up in Dallas to shoot at Mickey's Lease where we had the last "free machinegun rental / just bring ammo day" deal.  I am actually in Austin and could meet you at one of the local ranges (Best of the West) sometime after the holidays if you wanted to put some rounds into the dirt and just get some hand on knowledge if you have never played with a 60 before.  Otherwise I will probably try and head up to Dallas/Mickeys Lease in maybe the March timeframe for some trigger time on some reactive targets.

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I love my 60.  Like anything, treat ot well It'll run forever.  Dont, it will fucking run like shit.

There will be a couple of MG shoots around the Houston area during the new years time frame.  Im sure someone would let you mess with if you made it out to a shoot.

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I looked long and hard at the M60E4 LMO had at the SAR show. @ 45K it was a little more than I felt good spending. I want to thank you guys for the info you postedIf anyone gets a lead on one let me know. Thanks-Art

WOW  I am so glad that there is all this good knowledge amongst the board members here. I'm a total neophyte when it comes to the M60 platform.  I have never played with a M60 before, haven't had the opportunity to see one in person.  I do not have the SAR articles, if you can send those to me via email that would be greatly appreciated! spyder0007 at hotmail dot com.   I look forward to coming up to Austin, having you teach me the ins and outs of the platform.  I think due to the substantial amount of investment required, I would want to go go and personally inspect the weapon I'm contemplating buying and then if the transaction is consummated, locking it up while the x-fer goes through.

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LMO's gun is nice, but as with anything, you usually pay for buying a gun like that from a company like that. When you buy stuff from ruben, you pay extra money because you are buying from the name he has built up over the years. Which is fine, but its true. You can get guns from the likes of auto weapons as well, but again, I wasn't going to pay for a name from a know dealer. I also got a RIA gun, with a bunch of mismatched parts. But for what I got it for, I could care less. I'll likely send it to USORD, and have them rebuild it up, and be happy.

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Time for a totally gratuitous pic of my E4:


http://ioka.net/pics/M60E4.jpg


I've *never* had a single hiccup running the E4 setup.

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I will need to scan the articles so that I can send them to you.  It may take me a little bit to get them to you and it will  probably sometime after Christmas, as I will have to dig through stacks of old SAR Magazines to find the 5 or 6 that have different segments of the artilcles and get them scanned, etc.

Send me an IM sometime after the new year and we can try and coordinate a weekend that will work for both of us to meet at BOTW in Liberty Hill.  I may also try and go to Fourmans NYE Day shoot at his place north of Austin, but it will probably be a game day decision.   However, I can let you know if I have more advance notice on going to Fourmans Shoot New Years Day and will probably post a reply in his thread in the hometown forum if I can make it.

If want to wait until March or so, we can meet at Mickeys  place in Dallas (I have a key) which is a better range for a beltfed and we could probably get a handful of other DFW  M60 owners, like HRT4ME to come so you would be able to get advice from more than just one person.

I am open either way if you prefer to meet at BOTW in Jan or Mickeys in March.

As David mentioned, you may also be able to hook up with Sean Cody in Houston as he used to coordinate the Houston New Years Day Machinegun shoot at the Impact Zone, although I am not sure if it is still happening this year after the accident at the last machinegun shoot out there.  You can find Sean at the texasguntalk forum and try and see if the houston shoot is going to happen or not.

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Your earlier post resonated with me in terms of cost, this one does as well.  While there is nothing wrong with buying from a known dealer and buying a known build, one always pays a premium for that "peace of mind."  I'd much rather take the time, educate myself and buy something at a good value for me and the seller and put the premium towards ammo  I've also found that there is no shortage of good folks on the board willing to share their knowledge and provide guidance, which is a TREMENDOUS plus!!  

I believe that a good deal can be had in the low to mid 20's (22K-25K), provided it has been taken care of.  I think most of the members here shoot their F/A NFA items instead of letting them sleep in the safe.  I for one want a shooter grade, something that I can take to the range and blast away with 2-4x a year, and while I"m there let others enjoy it as well.

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If youre serious, I have a friend dumping a RIA build M60 that was built into an E4 by US Ordnance.  He's owned it 2 years since the build and has never shot it.  Comes with probably 3 or 4 e4 parts kits, then another 10 or so complete bolts, op rods, etc etc.  He said he would take $30k for it all.

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If youre serious, I have a friend dumping a RIA build M60 that was built into an E4 by US Ordnance.  He's owned it 2 years since the build and has never shot it.  Comes with probably 3 or 4 e4 parts kits, then another 10 or so complete bolts, op rods, etc etc.  He said he would take $30k for it all.

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If you're serious, I have a friend dumping a RIA M60 that was built into an E4 by US Ordnance.  He's owned it 2 years since the build and has never shot it.  Comes with probably 3 or 4 E4 parts kits, then another 10 or so complete bolts, op rods, etc etc.  He said he would take $30k for it all.

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Doooooooooeeeeeeeetttttt!!!!!!



When I was looking for a belt fed, people said to do the 1919 if I wanted to stay under $20k. If I wanted to go over $20k, to save up and get a pig. That was pretty much the standard answer from everyone I talked too. I ended up with a pig, so I guess you can tell I took the advise.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/ar15gift.jpg

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didnt you pick this guy up for $16g a few months back?  i remember reading your post on it and thinking to myself i could actually afford one at that price.

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awww nice. some of the Pigs issues are actually from operator error. belts need to flow straight into the feed tray,
Not Rambo style with the belt over your shoulder and hanging off your back.

someone asked about feed boxes ? i seen 100 round plastic boxes that hang off the side. they are the best i seen.
but can't find them anymore. i sold five of them like an asshole. LOL.  London Bridge makes a cool 100 round nylon
ammo bag that keeps its shape and works well you can stuff 150 in it.

the better you treat the Pig, the better it will treat you. i CLEAN my Firearms like my life depends on it.
so they work 100% without question. i love the M60 in any configuration. my buddy is in right now, and would rather have the 60
over the 240 / 249. they are as good as anything in my opinion. just need a different kind of handling / care.

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My quest came to an end today.  I picked up an early Springfield Armory Pig coax mount ready with 4 barrels.  It has the vintage 'nam look but the internals have been upgraded to E4, guide rod, spring, sear, bolt.  

http://i53.tinypic.com/2rnzl2d.jpg