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Posted: 11/9/2008 5:57:11 PM EDT
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Guys, I need some help.
I'm ready to pull the trigger on a large ammo purchase to feed the M11/9 Lage I have in transfer. I emailed Richard Lage and his reply was that he only recommended the upper with Winchester White Box. Obviously, there are cheaper options out there. AIM surplus has Federal American Eagle for $190 a case, which is about as good as I have seen for reloadable American ammo. I can find WWB for $210 a case locally, so I save some of that by not having to ship. Just trying to find a way to make my $$ go farther and not end up with 10k rounds that won't run in my subgun. Thanks, Dave |
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Before you "pull the trigger" consider investing that $$$ in a reloading setup instead. I can reload ammo that is ballistically identical to WWB 115 grn JRN for well under $100/thousand... about half what it costs at WalMart, and it runs flawlessly. An entry-level progressive loading setup like the Dillon Square Deal B could be paid for within 4000 rounds.
Or you could dick around trying to find the cheapest ass factory junk ammo, struggle with malfunctions and get frustrated with your excellent MAX-11 upper because you feed it crap. Your choice  .
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Before you "pull the trigger" consider investing that $$$ in a reloading setup instead. I can reload ammo that is ballistically identical to WWB 115 grn JRN for well under $100/thousand... about half what it costs at WalMart, and it runs flawlessly. An entry-level progressive loading setup like the Dillon Square Deal B could be paid for within 4000 rounds. Or you could dick around trying to find the cheapest ass factory junk ammo, struggle with malfunctions and get frustrated with your excellent MAX-11 upper because you feed it crap. Your choice  .I'm going to rant here: Thats all fine and dandy, but the guy didn't ask about reloading. People need to get their head out of their asses. God damn. Just because it works for you, don't try to preach it to someone else. I don't have time to reload. That is great that you do. More power to you. I would lose more money sitting in front of a press for two hour to make that ammo then what I could buy it for new. //rant off To the OP, I do not have a max11, I've got a normal MAC, and it eats everything I feed it. I don't really have a good answer for you. |
| I was having problems with my zytels feeding my reloads due to the flat nose on the bullet. Went and picked up a mega pack of remington for about $55 for 250 rounds. Worked great, I shot these for many of thousands of rounds until I had a big cache of brass. Now I reload but I need to find a different bullet style to feed the mac 11. The uzi loves the flat nosed stuff so I'll just feed it that. Until I buy different bullets and reload them for the mac I'll just buy these mega packs. |
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Thanks guys, I just got an email this afternoon from a guy who has a LAGE setup and he offered me to come and shoot with him this weekend. This will give me an opportunity to test a few boxes of different brands and see if there are any issues.
I wouldn't mind a reloading setup, but I haven't looked into one yet. Until this last year or two, I wasn't shooting enough to justify another hobby. Nowadays I'm working 40 hours instead of 70 and a case of .223 in a day or two at the range just doesn't happen anymore. Dave |
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...People need to get their head out of their asses. God damn. Just because it works for you, don't try to preach it to someone else. ...To the OP, I do not have a max11, I've got a normal MAC, and it eats everything I feed it. I don't really have a good answer for you. Dude - there is no need to be obnoxious. The OP asked about making his hard earned $ go further, and I gave him good advice. Unlike you, I do own a MAX-11, and I know a lot of other guys with MAX-11s, and I even know all the guys that build the MAX-11s over at Lage Mfg. I have seen a lot of reliability problems arise from people trying to run cheap ammo through their MAX-11s, and I'm trying to save the OP a bunch of heartache. The WWB 115 grn JRN load is what Lage designed the MAX-11 around, and is the only load I know will run 100%. Like I said, if he wants to mess with other ammo that is a few $ cheaper, then he can do so, but if he wants to really make his $$$ go as far as possible, reloading is the way to go. Unlike you, I tried to give him a constructive answer. |
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To the OP: If you are thinking about buying 10K of ammo, your spend will be around $2000. For this same money, I calculate you could buy a Dillon 650 setup for 9mm with case feeder and all the peripherals you need (powder scale, bench, misc tool), plus the components to make 10K rounds exactly replicating WWB 115 grn JRN. There would be some setup and learning time, but once you are up to speed, the press will be easily capable of producing 500 rounds per hour (Dillon's claim of 800-1000 rph is optimistic IMHO). You only pay for the reloading equipment once, of course, so after the first 10K rounds, you will be saving big $$$ - or, if you are like me, will be shooting twice as much !
Good luck with your decision, and feel free to PM me if you need any guidance on reloading. |
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What magazines are you guys using? My M11/nine with Lage slow-fire upper won't run for squat. :-( I tend to blame the magazines. Mike Mine ran OK with WWB using Zytels, but I greatly prefer converted PAM2 magazines such as those offered by Recon Ordnance or usmachinegun.com. My PAM2 mags are so reliable that I sold off all my Zytels. So we don't take this thread off track, perhaps you could start a new thread describing the problems you have (symptoms, ammo and mags being used etc.)... there are a lot of experienced MAX-11 shooters here and over at the mac10talk.com forum. Alternatrively, feel free to PM me. The MAX-11 is extremely simple to troubleshoot. |
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What magazines are you guys using? My M11/nine with Lage slow-fire upper won't run for squat. :-( I tend to blame the magazines. Mike Mine ran OK with WWB using Zytels, but I greatly prefer converted PAM2 magazines such as those offered by Recon Ordnance or usmachinegun.com. My PAM2 mags are so reliable that I sold off all my Zytels. So we don't take this thread off track, perhaps you could start a new thread describing the problems you have (symptoms, ammo and mags being used etc.)... there are a lot of experienced MAX-11 shooters here and over at the mac10talk.com forum. Alternatrively, feel free to PM me. The MAX-11 is extremely simple to troubleshoot. Feel free to keep it in this thread if you like. 
When I test drove my MAX-11, I shot both the Zytels he had on hand and a few of the converted PAM mags. Both ran fine, but the MAG-Tech ammo I bought didn't 100% until I started tapping the mags to seat them after loading with the PAM mags. WWB was fine. |
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To the OP: If you are thinking about buying 10K of ammo, your spend will be around $2000. For this same money, I calculate you could buy a Dillon 650 setup for 9mm with case feeder and all the peripherals you need (powder scale, bench, misc tool), plus the components to make 10K rounds exactly replicating WWB 115 grn JRN. There would be some setup and learning time, but once you are up to speed, the press will be easily capable of producing 500 rounds per hour (Dillon's claim of 800-1000 rph is optimistic IMHO). You only pay for the reloading equipment once, of course, so after the first 10K rounds, you will be saving big $$$ - or, if you are like me, will be shooting twice as much ! Good luck with your decision, and feel free to PM me if you need any guidance on reloading. Hmm... might be taking you up on that. |
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About any SAMMI spec ammo will run a Max-11. Avoid the Remington 115gr in the green-white 50ct boxes. I got a friend that about all he runs now is his 147gr handloads like me (but mine's a TASK style). You do load your own,,, don't you ? Yea, stay away from UMC as well. Must be underpowered because it failed to cycle my friend's P220 and it also caused a runaway in my Lage. I only shoot UMC in my wheel guns. |
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Recon Ordnance or usmachinegun.com. My PAM2 mags are so reliable that I sold off all my Zytels. I bought 20 magazines ($25/each) that look like those from my dealer when I bought the M11/nine. They tend to work better (still not 100%) when I only load 10rds. They don't run at all with >20rds. The rounds always "nose dive" into the barrel. 
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Looks like you just need to spread the feed lips a little. The rounds aren't being presented to the chamber properly-both of the Max11's I've shot showed no evidence of the bullet hitting the feed ramp at all.
I got to shoot another MAX-11 last weekend, and ran Federal American Eagle and more Magtech. I used Recon Ordnance mags all morning with the exception of the first mag I tried to put thru it. It was a Zytel and was either dirty (didn't look like it) or the spring was weak. Everything else was 100%. AIM was completely out of everything but Silver Bear by the time I ordered and I didn't want to take the chance so I skipped out on it and bought a few cases of MagTech locally at a premium. (with Obama coming in, did I pick a fortuitous time to buy and MG in a cal. I don't shoot or what?) I'll be looking into a reloader though, for sure. |
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Recon Ordnance or usmachinegun.com. My PAM2 mags are so reliable that I sold off all my Zytels. I bought 20 magazines ($25/each) that look like those from my dealer when I bought the M11/nine. They tend to work better (still not 100%) when I only load 10rds. They don't run at all with >20rds. The rounds always "nose dive" into the barrel. http://homepage.mac.com/michael_aos/.Pictures/Guns/M11/IMG_7388.jpg http://homepage.mac.com/michael_aos/.Pictures/Guns/M11/IMG_7389.jpg http://homepage.mac.com/michael_aos/.Pictures/Guns/M11/IMG_7390.jpg 
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I don’t have a LAGE upper (yet) but here are my experiences with ammo and mags in my M-11.
Zytel mags need to be cleaned. I learned this the hard way at a match. Take them apart, spray some CLP in them, and mop it out with a rag. Repeat when you get failure to feeds. Mine runs with anything if mags are clean. I run almost exclusively Rem/UMC Mega pack from Wal-Mart. But it worked just as well with American eagle 147gr, Steel cased Russian crap wrapped in paper and everything in between. I have not tried hollow points but I may try some next time. I will not use +P for obvious reasons. Ive heard about the limited life span of Zytel mags. I recently ordered some steel mags from Recon Ord. just in case. |
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I'll be looking into a reloader though, for sure. Cool, do your research, make sure you get a decent one. Are you going to try and get a max-11 DF? I looooooove mine, no feeding issues with the new DIFR and WWB. For me its WWB and my own reloads, been pretty good so far. |
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I'll be looking into a reloader though, for sure. Cool, do your research, make sure you get a decent one. Are you going to try and get a max-11 DF? I looooooove mine, no feeding issues with the new DIFR and WWB. For me its WWB and my own reloads, been pretty good so far. What's a DF and DIFR? If you are asking what I think you are, I did buy an M11/9 with a Max-11 setup-and the seller will give me his position (#49 on the list) for the .22 upper as well. Waiting for the transfer.... this is my first NFA purchase now that they are legal in MI. I'm building a C&R 870 SBS also. |
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What's a DF and DIFR? If you are asking what I think you are, I did buy an M11/9 with a Max-11 setup-and the seller will give me his position (#49 on the list) for the .22 upper as well. Waiting for the transfer.... this is my first NFA purchase now that they are legal in MI. I'm building a C&R 870 SBS also. The "DF" version is the dual feed - i.e., uses converted suomi mags, which are much easier to load than single-feed mags like the zytels or the converted PAM mags. Unfortunately, they've proved to not be 100% reliable due to varying tolerances in the M11/9 lower. The DIFR (drop in feed ramp) was intended to correct this problem, but again, only appears to work in some guns. Richard recently posted on uzitalk.com that anyone in line for the DF version can elect to get the original SF version instead and get it converted later if/when all the bugs are worked out - which suggests that he's halting all sales of the DF as he had previously with conversions. He's supposedly contemplating putting together a jig that potential customers can use to see if their lowers would be compatible. |
I have had used WWB, Federal AE, Alabama Ammo Special K and some Fiochi 130gr FMJ and they all ran great in my MAX-11. I had one of the very first MAX-11's that Richard made (#3 to be exact). I used some of the RO mags and the USMG mags. Some of the RO mags needed a littlle tweaking, but all of the USMG mags ran fine out of the box. I sent my upper back to Richard in April and had it converted to the Dual Feed version and now use only the converteed 36rd Suomi mags. Here is a pic of mine:
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To the OP: If you are thinking about buying 10K of ammo, your spend will be around $2000. For this same money, I calculate you could buy a Dillon 650 setup for 9mm with case feeder and all the peripherals you need (powder scale, bench, misc tool), plus the components to make 10K rounds exactly replicating WWB 115 grn JRN. There would be some setup and learning time, but once you are up to speed, the press will be easily capable of producing 500 rounds per hour (Dillon's claim of 800-1000 rph is optimistic IMHO). You only pay for the reloading equipment once, of course, so after the first 10K rounds, you will be saving big $$$ - or, if you are like me, will be shooting twice as much ! Good luck with your decision, and feel free to PM me if you need any guidance on reloading. Listen to SB - he knows what he's talking about. I run the same setup and now over 40K rounds later I have never regreted the initial cost. Have two 650s - one dedicated to 9mm and another to 5.56. The 9mm gets a TON of use - I am now up to the 800 rnds/hour pace - it takes practice but is very relaxing for me - better than wasting time in front of the BoobTube! Good Luck and remember - reloading is a disease too! FH |
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