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Posted: 10/13/2014 5:47:17 AM EDT
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Never thought I would see one for sell, says it's on a Form 1, WTF? I would want it but I think they are awkward to carry and it's expensive compared to an M203. Although the standalone pisotl holster for them are pretty pimp. |
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Aside from having an overpriced HK unicorn that you can't get parts for when it breaks, yeah can't see any benefit for having one. Also I like the look of LMT's stand alone better, the HK looks like someone tack welded a buttpad to a piece of rod as an afterthought. |
| Having no interest in this at all (cant have in this commie state), I am curious what this is likely to go for when it sells. Some of the prices in the ad for the accessories left me rather astounded ($1000+ for an eotech?) If this really is a unicorn, I imagine no price would be totally unreasonable, but OTOH, things are only worth what someone will pay... |
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I'm very curious how it was procured, Form 1, I mean sure easy enough with an M203 but we make those here, no matter how you skin it that is an HK receiver. I suppose it could have been made here by HK, I used to drive past their Columbus, GA building often but thought it was a import for LEO, or USP pistol type of operation.
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Hmmm. Seems like someone got a hold of a AGC launcher that was made for overseas testing and broke it down and form 1éd the receiver and added a mis matched barrel. All H&K launchers imported by H&K Defense get a nice laser engraved import marking with H&K defense info and warning. From looking at the little info provided on the photos of the receiver - maybe someone helped themselves to one of the US Military test AGC launchers and added all the bits & pieces to make a complete system.
The system is very nice if you have never fired one. The exception of the double action trigger - it is very accurate and durable system. I have carried one just like it in Saudi on a a Security Escort Detail and was offered one to keep on my way home to the States - didnt keep it since my German armorer said that I needed a press to remove/install the barrel and it was a bitch to do without the right tools. It still sits in a gun room back in Saudi. Only thing is the Eotech 40mmGL sight is very nice, but a little ungainly sitting off to the side and the Insight PSQ-18A is an infra red only system that Insight has never sold or allowed to be sold to non-Mil or LEO. All of the ones being offered on Ebay are actually stolen - I know this intimately - but you can call Insight if you want. Dont wish anything bad to happen to the seller of this fine shooting iron, but he wont let it pass for less than 5 figures and there are better 40mm and even Select fire weapons to be had for that price. Still nice to see - but I prefer a M79 or even a H&K M69A1 if the only transferable one was still around. 
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Hmmm. Seems like someone got a hold of a AGC launcher that was made for overseas testing and broke it down and form 1éd the receiver and added a mis matched barrel. All H&K launchers imported by H&K Defense get a nice laser engraved import marking with H&K defense info and warning. From looking at the little info provided on the photos of the receiver - maybe someone helped themselves to one of the US Military test AGC launchers and added all the bits & pieces to make a complete system. The system is very nice if you have never fired one. The exception of the double action trigger - it is very accurate and durable system. I have carried one just like it in Saudi on a a Security Escort Detail and was offered one to keep on my way home to the States - didnt keep it since my German armorer said that I needed a press to remove/install the barrel and it was a bitch to do without the right tools. It still sits in a gun room back in Saudi. Only thing is the Eotech 40mmGL sight is very nice, but a little ungainly sitting off to the side and the Insight PSQ-18A is an infra red only system that Insight has never sold or allowed to be sold to non-Mil or LEO. All of the ones being offered on Ebay are actually stolen - I know this intimately - but you can call Insight if you want. Dont wish anything bad to happen to the seller of this fine shooting iron, but he wont let it pass for less than 5 figures and there are better 40mm and even Select fire weapons to be had for that price. Still nice to see - but I prefer a M79 or even a H&K M69A1 if the only transferable one was still around.
I agree. While he may have gotten a Form 1 approved, it does not mean the gun is legal, and I would suspect it would not pass an ATF physical inspection. If the receiver was manufactured here, then I'll eat my words, but assuming it was not, then the unit was imported through exception as a complete DD or as a receiver only. Either way, it is not legally eligible to be Form 1ed into a transferable DD. Legalities aside, the guy has more than $10,000 worth of accessories he's forcing into the offering, so I'm guessing his reserve is at or beyond $20,000. Neat conversation piece but not a serious consideration for anyone with that sort of cash. |
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I agree. While he may have gotten a Form 1 approved, it does not mean the gun is legal, and I would suspect it would not pass an ATF physical inspection. If the receiver was manufactured here, then I'll eat my words, but assuming it was not, then the unit was imported through exception as a complete DD or as a receiver only. Either way, it is not legally eligible to be Form 1ed into a transferable DD. Legalities aside, the guy has more than $10,000 worth of accessories he's forcing into the offering, so I'm guessing his reserve is at or beyond $20,000. Neat conversation piece but not a serious consideration for anyone with that sort of cash. Quoted:
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Hmmm. Seems like someone got a hold of a AGC launcher that was made for overseas testing and broke it down and form 1éd the receiver and added a mis matched barrel. All H&K launchers imported by H&K Defense get a nice laser engraved import marking with H&K defense info and warning. From looking at the little info provided on the photos of the receiver - maybe someone helped themselves to one of the US Military test AGC launchers and added all the bits & pieces to make a complete system. The system is very nice if you have never fired one. The exception of the double action trigger - it is very accurate and durable system. I have carried one just like it in Saudi on a a Security Escort Detail and was offered one to keep on my way home to the States - didnt keep it since my German armorer said that I needed a press to remove/install the barrel and it was a bitch to do without the right tools. It still sits in a gun room back in Saudi. Only thing is the Eotech 40mmGL sight is very nice, but a little ungainly sitting off to the side and the Insight PSQ-18A is an infra red only system that Insight has never sold or allowed to be sold to non-Mil or LEO. All of the ones being offered on Ebay are actually stolen - I know this intimately - but you can call Insight if you want. Dont wish anything bad to happen to the seller of this fine shooting iron, but he wont let it pass for less than 5 figures and there are better 40mm and even Select fire weapons to be had for that price. Still nice to see - but I prefer a M79 or even a H&K M69A1 if the only transferable one was still around.
I agree. While he may have gotten a Form 1 approved, it does not mean the gun is legal, and I would suspect it would not pass an ATF physical inspection. If the receiver was manufactured here, then I'll eat my words, but assuming it was not, then the unit was imported through exception as a complete DD or as a receiver only. Either way, it is not legally eligible to be Form 1ed into a transferable DD. Legalities aside, the guy has more than $10,000 worth of accessories he's forcing into the offering, so I'm guessing his reserve is at or beyond $20,000. Neat conversation piece but not a serious consideration for anyone with that sort of cash. If it was imported as Title 2, then the barrel removed, reverting it to Title 1 status I'm fairly certain that it could be Form 1ed. Granted there might be 922(r) issues. This wouldn't be the first time a Title 2 weapon was legally import, dissembled, then built into a Title 1 gun using the imported receiver. Finding a buyer who wants all the extra parts might be difficult. |
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If it was imported as Title 2, then the barrel removed, reverting it to Title 1 status I'm fairly certain that it could be Form 1ed. Granted there might be 922(r) issues. This wouldn't be the first time a Title 2 weapon was legally import, dissembled, then built into a Title 1 gun using the imported receiver. Finding a buyer who wants all the extra parts might be difficult. Quoted:
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Hmmm. Seems like someone got a hold of a AGC launcher that was made for overseas testing and broke it down and form 1éd the receiver and added a mis matched barrel. All H&K launchers imported by H&K Defense get a nice laser engraved import marking with H&K defense info and warning. From looking at the little info provided on the photos of the receiver - maybe someone helped themselves to one of the US Military test AGC launchers and added all the bits & pieces to make a complete system. The system is very nice if you have never fired one. The exception of the double action trigger - it is very accurate and durable system. I have carried one just like it in Saudi on a a Security Escort Detail and was offered one to keep on my way home to the States - didnt keep it since my German armorer said that I needed a press to remove/install the barrel and it was a bitch to do without the right tools. It still sits in a gun room back in Saudi. Only thing is the Eotech 40mmGL sight is very nice, but a little ungainly sitting off to the side and the Insight PSQ-18A is an infra red only system that Insight has never sold or allowed to be sold to non-Mil or LEO. All of the ones being offered on Ebay are actually stolen - I know this intimately - but you can call Insight if you want. Dont wish anything bad to happen to the seller of this fine shooting iron, but he wont let it pass for less than 5 figures and there are better 40mm and even Select fire weapons to be had for that price. Still nice to see - but I prefer a M79 or even a H&K M69A1 if the only transferable one was still around.
I agree. While he may have gotten a Form 1 approved, it does not mean the gun is legal, and I would suspect it would not pass an ATF physical inspection. If the receiver was manufactured here, then I'll eat my words, but assuming it was not, then the unit was imported through exception as a complete DD or as a receiver only. Either way, it is not legally eligible to be Form 1ed into a transferable DD. Legalities aside, the guy has more than $10,000 worth of accessories he's forcing into the offering, so I'm guessing his reserve is at or beyond $20,000. Neat conversation piece but not a serious consideration for anyone with that sort of cash. If it was imported as Title 2, then the barrel removed, reverting it to Title 1 status I'm fairly certain that it could be Form 1ed. Granted there might be 922(r) issues. This wouldn't be the first time a Title 2 weapon was legally import, dissembled, then built into a Title 1 gun using the imported receiver. Finding a buyer who wants all the extra parts might be difficult. Whether or not an imported firearm can become transferable is wholly dependent on how it was imported. A Title II firearm would necessarily have to be imported as a sales sample or research unit. They can't legally become transferable even if they were to be reconfigured into a Title I-compliant firearm. The only imported firearm that can become a transferable Title II firearm would be one imported under the "sporting purposes" clause of the GCA. An imported "semi-automatic assault rifle" imported under a Form 6 exception for demo or research could conceivably be reconfigured through 922r to shed its imported status and thus become a legal, transferable Title II firearm, however there is no such pathway for an imported Title II Destructive Device. Removing the barrel of this GL, assuming it was imported, makes it a Title I "Other", but does not allow it to be transferable as a Title II firearm. This is quite esoteric for a simple Form 1, so not surprising it would be readily approved, but an examination of the gun and its papered history would inevitably lead to legal issues. This is somewhat similar to the "Repair/Replacement" ADI AUG and SIG 550 receivers imported by CCF back in the 1990s. They can/could be used as repair/replacement, but cannot become Title II SBRs unless 922r is met and maintained in Title II. |
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Whether or not an imported firearm can become transferable is wholly dependent on how it was imported. A Title II firearm would necessarily have to be imported as a sales sample or research unit. They can't legally become transferable even if they were to be reconfigured into a Title I-compliant firearm. The only imported firearm that can become a transferable Title II firearm would be one imported under the "sporting purposes" clause of the GCA. An imported "semi-automatic assault rifle" imported under a Form 6 exception for demo or research could conceivably be reconfigured through 922r to shed its imported status and thus become a legal, transferable Title II firearm, however there is no such pathway for an imported Title II Destructive Device. Removing the barrel of this GL, assuming it was imported, makes it a Title I "Other", but does not allow it to be transferable as a Title II firearm. This is quite esoteric for a simple Form 1, so not surprising it would be readily approved, but an examination of the gun and its papered history would inevitably lead to legal issues. This is somewhat similar to the "Repair/Replacement" ADI AUG and SIG 550 receivers imported by CCF back in the 1990s. They can/could be used as repair/replacement, but cannot become Title II SBRs unless 922r is met and maintained in Title II. Quoted:
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Hmmm. Seems like someone got a hold of a AGC launcher that was made for overseas testing and broke it down and form 1éd the receiver and added a mis matched barrel. All H&K launchers imported by H&K Defense get a nice laser engraved import marking with H&K defense info and warning. From looking at the little info provided on the photos of the receiver - maybe someone helped themselves to one of the US Military test AGC launchers and added all the bits & pieces to make a complete system. The system is very nice if you have never fired one. The exception of the double action trigger - it is very accurate and durable system. I have carried one just like it in Saudi on a a Security Escort Detail and was offered one to keep on my way home to the States - didnt keep it since my German armorer said that I needed a press to remove/install the barrel and it was a bitch to do without the right tools. It still sits in a gun room back in Saudi. Only thing is the Eotech 40mmGL sight is very nice, but a little ungainly sitting off to the side and the Insight PSQ-18A is an infra red only system that Insight has never sold or allowed to be sold to non-Mil or LEO. All of the ones being offered on Ebay are actually stolen - I know this intimately - but you can call Insight if you want. Dont wish anything bad to happen to the seller of this fine shooting iron, but he wont let it pass for less than 5 figures and there are better 40mm and even Select fire weapons to be had for that price. Still nice to see - but I prefer a M79 or even a H&K M69A1 if the only transferable one was still around.
I agree. While he may have gotten a Form 1 approved, it does not mean the gun is legal, and I would suspect it would not pass an ATF physical inspection. If the receiver was manufactured here, then I'll eat my words, but assuming it was not, then the unit was imported through exception as a complete DD or as a receiver only. Either way, it is not legally eligible to be Form 1ed into a transferable DD. Legalities aside, the guy has more than $10,000 worth of accessories he's forcing into the offering, so I'm guessing his reserve is at or beyond $20,000. Neat conversation piece but not a serious consideration for anyone with that sort of cash. If it was imported as Title 2, then the barrel removed, reverting it to Title 1 status I'm fairly certain that it could be Form 1ed. Granted there might be 922(r) issues. This wouldn't be the first time a Title 2 weapon was legally import, dissembled, then built into a Title 1 gun using the imported receiver. Finding a buyer who wants all the extra parts might be difficult. Whether or not an imported firearm can become transferable is wholly dependent on how it was imported. A Title II firearm would necessarily have to be imported as a sales sample or research unit. They can't legally become transferable even if they were to be reconfigured into a Title I-compliant firearm. The only imported firearm that can become a transferable Title II firearm would be one imported under the "sporting purposes" clause of the GCA. An imported "semi-automatic assault rifle" imported under a Form 6 exception for demo or research could conceivably be reconfigured through 922r to shed its imported status and thus become a legal, transferable Title II firearm, however there is no such pathway for an imported Title II Destructive Device. Removing the barrel of this GL, assuming it was imported, makes it a Title I "Other", but does not allow it to be transferable as a Title II firearm. This is quite esoteric for a simple Form 1, so not surprising it would be readily approved, but an examination of the gun and its papered history would inevitably lead to legal issues. This is somewhat similar to the "Repair/Replacement" ADI AUG and SIG 550 receivers imported by CCF back in the 1990s. They can/could be used as repair/replacement, but cannot become Title II SBRs unless 922r is met and maintained in Title II. Recently there were a few S/A 10.5" HK416s imported as F/A guns. The ATF allowed the guns to be re-papered as imported SBRs, the receivers stripped and sold as Title 1 receivers. Many of these have since been re-registered as SBRs with the factory 10.5" 416 uppers reinstalled. Unless there's a restriction on DDs I don't know about, stripping the bbl from the receiver removes it from the definition of a DD (since it doesn't have a bbl with a diameter over .5"). M203 receivers are sold all the time as "firearms".In this case, the barrel was probably stripped (reverting it to Title 1 status), form 1ed, and had the barrel reinstalled when the stamp was approved making it a title 2 transferable. |
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Quoted:
Recently there were a few S/A 10.5" HK416s imported as F/A guns. The ATF allowed the guns to be re-papered as imported SBRs, the receivers stripped and sold as Title 1 receivers. Many of these have since been re-registered as SBRs with the factory 10.5" 416 uppers reinstalled. Unless there's a restriction on DDs I don't know about, stripping the bbl from the receiver removes it from the definition of a DD (since it doesn't have a bbl with a diameter over .5"). M203 receivers are sold all the time as "firearms".In this case, the barrel was probably stripped (reverting it to Title 1 status), form 1ed, and had the barrel reinstalled when the stamp was approved making it a title 2 transferable. Quoted:
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Hmmm. Seems like someone got a hold of a AGC launcher that was made for overseas testing and broke it down and form 1éd the receiver and added a mis matched barrel. All H&K launchers imported by H&K Defense get a nice laser engraved import marking with H&K defense info and warning. From looking at the little info provided on the photos of the receiver - maybe someone helped themselves to one of the US Military test AGC launchers and added all the bits & pieces to make a complete system. The system is very nice if you have never fired one. The exception of the double action trigger - it is very accurate and durable system. I have carried one just like it in Saudi on a a Security Escort Detail and was offered one to keep on my way home to the States - didnt keep it since my German armorer said that I needed a press to remove/install the barrel and it was a bitch to do without the right tools. It still sits in a gun room back in Saudi. Only thing is the Eotech 40mmGL sight is very nice, but a little ungainly sitting off to the side and the Insight PSQ-18A is an infra red only system that Insight has never sold or allowed to be sold to non-Mil or LEO. All of the ones being offered on Ebay are actually stolen - I know this intimately - but you can call Insight if you want. Dont wish anything bad to happen to the seller of this fine shooting iron, but he wont let it pass for less than 5 figures and there are better 40mm and even Select fire weapons to be had for that price. Still nice to see - but I prefer a M79 or even a H&K M69A1 if the only transferable one was still around.
I agree. While he may have gotten a Form 1 approved, it does not mean the gun is legal, and I would suspect it would not pass an ATF physical inspection. If the receiver was manufactured here, then I'll eat my words, but assuming it was not, then the unit was imported through exception as a complete DD or as a receiver only. Either way, it is not legally eligible to be Form 1ed into a transferable DD. Legalities aside, the guy has more than $10,000 worth of accessories he's forcing into the offering, so I'm guessing his reserve is at or beyond $20,000. Neat conversation piece but not a serious consideration for anyone with that sort of cash. If it was imported as Title 2, then the barrel removed, reverting it to Title 1 status I'm fairly certain that it could be Form 1ed. Granted there might be 922(r) issues. This wouldn't be the first time a Title 2 weapon was legally import, dissembled, then built into a Title 1 gun using the imported receiver. Finding a buyer who wants all the extra parts might be difficult. Whether or not an imported firearm can become transferable is wholly dependent on how it was imported. A Title II firearm would necessarily have to be imported as a sales sample or research unit. They can't legally become transferable even if they were to be reconfigured into a Title I-compliant firearm. The only imported firearm that can become a transferable Title II firearm would be one imported under the "sporting purposes" clause of the GCA. An imported "semi-automatic assault rifle" imported under a Form 6 exception for demo or research could conceivably be reconfigured through 922r to shed its imported status and thus become a legal, transferable Title II firearm, however there is no such pathway for an imported Title II Destructive Device. Removing the barrel of this GL, assuming it was imported, makes it a Title I "Other", but does not allow it to be transferable as a Title II firearm. This is quite esoteric for a simple Form 1, so not surprising it would be readily approved, but an examination of the gun and its papered history would inevitably lead to legal issues. This is somewhat similar to the "Repair/Replacement" ADI AUG and SIG 550 receivers imported by CCF back in the 1990s. They can/could be used as repair/replacement, but cannot become Title II SBRs unless 922r is met and maintained in Title II. Recently there were a few S/A 10.5" HK416s imported as F/A guns. The ATF allowed the guns to be re-papered as imported SBRs, the receivers stripped and sold as Title 1 receivers. Many of these have since been re-registered as SBRs with the factory 10.5" 416 uppers reinstalled. Unless there's a restriction on DDs I don't know about, stripping the bbl from the receiver removes it from the definition of a DD (since it doesn't have a bbl with a diameter over .5"). M203 receivers are sold all the time as "firearms".In this case, the barrel was probably stripped (reverting it to Title 1 status), form 1ed, and had the barrel reinstalled when the stamp was approved making it a title 2 transferable. What you describe with the HKs falls apart legally at the reintroduction to Title II. Using imported HK uppers on these guns to make an SBR is creating an imported NFA firearm. You cannot legally do it, but again, this isn't something that would ever appear on a Form 1, so it would require physical inspection to catch. There is both precedent and procedure for moving imported "exception" rifles into the the civilian sector like you describe, but they are handicapped by 922r not only in Title I but also in Title II. This is to avoid having a firearm "identical to one prohibited from importation" under GCA. This example similarly applies to the M320. In stripping the original imported M320, then Form 1ing it with another imported barrel, an imported NFA firearm is being created, however since 922r does not have any application to "Destructive Devices", only rifles and shotguns, there is no legal pathway to create a transferable Title II firearm. Mark Barnes wrote an interesting Legal Side in SAR about this many years ago. |
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