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Posted: 10/12/2013 4:06:35 PM EDT
| How/where would I legally obtain one and what are the storeage laws? Thanks! |
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this has been beaten to death a few times, you can not get one, you can make one on a form 1 and pay the $200 for the stamp.
if you created a large company that produced munitions for the government or other contracts similar to that, got the right FFL, explosives license, built the correct storage bunkers, had the correct insurance and a few other things you MAY be able to get one. at the very least you would need to get a few of them at that point because who ever makes them wouldn't sell you just one. so in short, i'm guessing if you spent about 1 million + dollars on all of that you could legally obtain say 10-20 of them. |
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Small Arms Review once wrote that there ARE at least a few live hand grenades on the registry. i'm sure those are in PD or similar agency storage, not random Joe's backyard storage magazine. believe me i'd love to get some real HE 40mm and looked into it a lot but it won't ever happen. the companies who make the munitions won't ever sell to you. easier time buying real C4 or other explosives |
| No "SPI" here champ. You can buy C4 as a DD or can it only be made like a hand grenade? When getting a DD you don't need to supply a reason like demolition correct? You don't need to notify if you are going to use it correct? Like if I registered and made a hand grenade and used it in a legal manner would I need to contact the ATF to say its gone? Destructive devices have always intrigued me and I'm not sure where to research them any FAQ or info resource would be greatly helpful! |
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Quoted: i'm sure those are in PD or similar agency storage, not random Joe's backyard storage magazine. believe me i'd love to get some real HE 40mm and looked into it a lot but it won't ever happen. the companies who make the munitions won't ever sell to you. easier time buying real C4 or other explosives Quoted: Quoted: Small Arms Review once wrote that there ARE at least a few live hand grenades on the registry. i'm sure those are in PD or similar agency storage, not random Joe's backyard storage magazine. believe me i'd love to get some real HE 40mm and looked into it a lot but it won't ever happen. the companies who make the munitions won't ever sell to you. easier time buying real C4 or other explosives  40mm HE Golden Eggs . I actually seen a live HE 40mm on gunbroker without the High Explosive Filler. Recently Just type Live in gunbrokers search engine. |
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Kind of an oxymoron doncha think.... Quoted:
a live HE 40mm on gunbroker without the High Explosive Filler Kind of an oxymoron doncha think.... Actually, there is some high explosive RDX in those HE trainers. It really would not be difficult to reactivate the M407 series trainer rounds into it's M406 HE equivalent. The first two rounds, the XM382 and M407E2 are essentially exact copies of the M406 HE round which is the 3rd cutaway round. The only difference is that the first two rounds don't have the HE filler. They still have a frag ball. The later M407A1's, E2's etc sometimes will have just a bakelite type non segmented ball. As long as the practice rounds don't have "/W DUMMY FUZE" or "PROOF" on the body or case it most likely has a live fuze just like that on the M406HE. The RDX booster in all of the fuzes consists of a small pellet that is contained in the tubular part that projects into the frag ball as you can see in the cutaway. The amount of the RDX is under the amount that would make it a DD so they are legal to possess. The last disassembled round is one with a dummy fuze, as you can see it has the frag ball. To reactivate, the nose can be carefully removed by taking a saw or dremel to several locations on the crimp, and it can be carefully pried up and still have enough crimp to be able to secure it back again. The fuze is loctited in but it can be removed. The RDX has more than sufficient velocity to detonate a common binary explosive like tannerite. It really would be one of the more easier DD projects. Although it's not something that some kid would be able to buy an M407 off of Gunbroker & do in an evening. You'd need to do some research & studying first.The paperwork & permits would probably be the most difficult part. I think Grog had alluded to people reactivating M407A1's on his website a while ago, I'm sure people have done it, I just don't know of anyone who has personally done it. 
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Quoted: Actually, there is some high explosive RDX in those HE trainers. It really would not be difficult to reactivate the M407 series trainer rounds into it's M406 HE equivalent. The first two rounds, the XM382 and M407E2 are essentially exact copies of the M406 HE round which is the 3rd cutaway round. The only difference is that the first two rounds don't have the HE filler. They still have a frag ball. The later M407A1's, E2's etc sometimes will have just a bakelite type non segmented ball. As long as the practice rounds don't have "/W DUMMY FUZE" or "PROOF" on the body or case it most likely has a live fuze just like that on the M406HE. The RDX booster in all of the fuzes consists of a small pellet that is contained in the tubular part that projects into the frag ball as you can see in the cutaway. The amount of the RDX is under the amount that would make it a DD so they are legal to possess. The last disassembled round is one with a dummy fuze, as you can see it has the frag ball. To reactivate, the nose can be carefully removed by taking a saw or dremel to several locations on the crimp, and it can be carefully pried up and still have enough crimp to be able to secure it back again. The fuze is loctited in but it can be removed. The RDX has more than sufficient velocity to detonate a common binary explosive like tannerite. It really would be one of the more easier DD projects. Although it's not something that some kid would be able to buy an M407 off of Gunbroker & do in an evening. You'd need to do some research & studying first.The paperwork & permits would probably be the most difficult part. I think Grog had alluded to people reactivating M407A1's on his website a while ago, I'm sure people have done it, I just don't know of anyone who has personally done it. http://i42.tinypic.com/2dj6umc.jpg Quoted: Quoted: a live HE 40mm on gunbroker without the High Explosive Filler Kind of an oxymoron doncha think.... Actually, there is some high explosive RDX in those HE trainers. It really would not be difficult to reactivate the M407 series trainer rounds into it's M406 HE equivalent. The first two rounds, the XM382 and M407E2 are essentially exact copies of the M406 HE round which is the 3rd cutaway round. The only difference is that the first two rounds don't have the HE filler. They still have a frag ball. The later M407A1's, E2's etc sometimes will have just a bakelite type non segmented ball. As long as the practice rounds don't have "/W DUMMY FUZE" or "PROOF" on the body or case it most likely has a live fuze just like that on the M406HE. The RDX booster in all of the fuzes consists of a small pellet that is contained in the tubular part that projects into the frag ball as you can see in the cutaway. The amount of the RDX is under the amount that would make it a DD so they are legal to possess. The last disassembled round is one with a dummy fuze, as you can see it has the frag ball. To reactivate, the nose can be carefully removed by taking a saw or dremel to several locations on the crimp, and it can be carefully pried up and still have enough crimp to be able to secure it back again. The fuze is loctited in but it can be removed. The RDX has more than sufficient velocity to detonate a common binary explosive like tannerite. It really would be one of the more easier DD projects. Although it's not something that some kid would be able to buy an M407 off of Gunbroker & do in an evening. You'd need to do some research & studying first.The paperwork & permits would probably be the most difficult part. I think Grog had alluded to people reactivating M407A1's on his website a while ago, I'm sure people have done it, I just don't know of anyone who has personally done it. http://i42.tinypic.com/2dj6umc.jpg |
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No "SPI" here champ. You can buy C4 as a DD or can it only be made like a hand grenade? When getting a DD you don't need to supply a reason like demolition correct? You don't need to notify if you are going to use it correct? Like if I registered and made a hand grenade and used it in a legal manner would I need to contact the ATF to say its gone? Destructive devices have always intrigued me and I'm not sure where to research them any FAQ or info resource would be greatly helpful! There are two issues at play here. You can own explosives but not a destructive device, and can have a tax stamp for a destructive device yet lack the capacity to store explosives. First, check all federal, state, and local laws for your location. Second, to own a hand grenade, get yourself a tax stamp for a destructive device like I got. Pay your $200 and wait for nearly a year. That stamp gives you permission to make a destructive device that is an antipersonnel fragmentation grenade. Congrats. Now, you have to satisfy the other prong of the issue. You could get yourself a federal explosives license and a magazine approved by the ATF and make yourself a grenade loaded with high explosives that you would keep in that magazine and check weekly. OR you could take your tax stamp, build yourself a grenade body, obtain or make a fuze assembly with less than a quarter ounce of explosives and keep a binary explosive handy to 'load' your stamped destructive device when you are ready to expend it. That way, when you 'load' the grenade, you are perfectly legal so long as you expend it immediately and do not transport it in its loaded state. That way, you do not run afoul of storage and transport laws, but retain the legal authority to manufacture an explosive destructive device. YMMV, IANAL. I can own a grenade... etc. |
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like i said before, no company will sell you what you are asking about. unless you have a decent sized business dealing with military contracts and NEED to use grenades or other explosives in development.
in reality you could get simple blasting caps and binary or other explosives with the proper licenses and storage magazines. oh and don't forget i would guess about 10+k a year in insurance you would need too. |
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going to need more than $200 when you blow your launcher up and your hand or hands off 
Grogs website has some pics of a guy who tried to make an HE round of some kind. That's because the guy used a visco fuze and flash powder. That was a recipe for disaster. As far as that guys claim (the guy who blew himself up) that it was a "binary explosive", he's full of it. Unless he had the fuze going into a blasting cap, there's no way it could have detonated. I'm hoping that by "binary" he meant a home brew of flash powder made of two components. I'd be pissed if he tried to blame it on a binary explosivbe reactive target maker because he is too ashamed to admit he screwed up. |
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That's because the guy used a visco fuze and flash powder. That was a recipe for disaster. As far as that guys claim (the guy who blew himself up) that it was a "binary explosive", he's full of it. Unless he had the fuze going into a blasting cap, there's no way it could have detonated. I'm hoping that by "binary" he meant a home brew of flash powder made of two components. I'd be pissed if he tried to blame it on a binary explosivbe reactive target maker because he is too ashamed to admit he screwed up. Quoted:
Quoted:
going to need more than $200 when you blow your launcher up and your hand or hands off
Grogs website has some pics of a guy who tried to make an HE round of some kind. That's because the guy used a visco fuze and flash powder. That was a recipe for disaster. As far as that guys claim (the guy who blew himself up) that it was a "binary explosive", he's full of it. Unless he had the fuze going into a blasting cap, there's no way it could have detonated. I'm hoping that by "binary" he meant a home brew of flash powder made of two components. I'd be pissed if he tried to blame it on a binary explosivbe reactive target maker because he is too ashamed to admit he screwed up. well either way..... no way i'd be making my own HE rounds or shooting ones that someone else made. |
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well either way..... no way i'd be making my own HE rounds or shooting ones that someone else made. Quoted:
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going to need more than $200 when you blow your launcher up and your hand or hands off
Grogs website has some pics of a guy who tried to make an HE round of some kind. That's because the guy used a visco fuze and flash powder. That was a recipe for disaster. As far as that guys claim (the guy who blew himself up) that it was a "binary explosive", he's full of it. Unless he had the fuze going into a blasting cap, there's no way it could have detonated. I'm hoping that by "binary" he meant a home brew of flash powder made of two components. I'd be pissed if he tried to blame it on a binary explosivbe reactive target maker because he is too ashamed to admit he screwed up. well either way..... no way i'd be making my own HE rounds or shooting ones that someone else made. Agreed. No way or no how would I ever shoot off a home brew or someone else's homebrew HE round unless it had a well proven fuzing system like those in mil. HE rounds. The fuzes are so well built and of such a safe & proven design that they practically take up half of the round. |
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That's because the guy used a visco fuze and flash powder. That was a recipe for disaster. As far as that guys claim (the guy who blew himself up) that it was a "binary explosive", he's full of it. Unless he had the fuze going into a blasting cap, there's no way it could have detonated. I'm hoping that by "binary" he meant a home brew of flash powder made of two components. I'd be pissed if he tried to blame it on a binary explosivbe reactive target maker because he is too ashamed to admit he screwed up. Quoted:
Quoted:
going to need more than $200 when you blow your launcher up and your hand or hands off
Grogs website has some pics of a guy who tried to make an HE round of some kind. That's because the guy used a visco fuze and flash powder. That was a recipe for disaster. As far as that guys claim (the guy who blew himself up) that it was a "binary explosive", he's full of it. Unless he had the fuze going into a blasting cap, there's no way it could have detonated. I'm hoping that by "binary" he meant a home brew of flash powder made of two components. I'd be pissed if he tried to blame it on a binary explosivbe reactive target maker because he is too ashamed to admit he screwed up. You are wrong. He won his lawsuit against the manufacturer involved, and that manufacturer changed his formula shortly after this incident to make his product less shock sensitive. It was not the fire that set off the binary, it was the shock of the launch. The original formula of that binary product was sensitive enough before this accident that a 22 would set it off. Now it takes more. Just an FYI... GROG |
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You are wrong. He won his lawsuit against the manufacturer involved, and that manufacturer changed his formula shortly after this incident to make his product less shock sensitive. It was not the fire that set off the binary, it was the shock of the launch. The original formula of that binary product was sensitive enough before this accident that a 22 would set it off. Now it takes more. Just an FYI... GROG Quoted:
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going to need more than $200 when you blow your launcher up and your hand or hands off
Grogs website has some pics of a guy who tried to make an HE round of some kind. That's because the guy used a visco fuze and flash powder. That was a recipe for disaster. As far as that guys claim (the guy who blew himself up) that it was a "binary explosive", he's full of it. Unless he had the fuze going into a blasting cap, there's no way it could have detonated. I'm hoping that by "binary" he meant a home brew of flash powder made of two components. I'd be pissed if he tried to blame it on a binary explosivbe reactive target maker because he is too ashamed to admit he screwed up. You are wrong. He won his lawsuit against the manufacturer involved, and that manufacturer changed his formula shortly after this incident to make his product less shock sensitive. It was not the fire that set off the binary, it was the shock of the launch. The original formula of that binary product was sensitive enough before this accident that a 22 would set it off. Now it takes more. Just an FYI... GROG I stand corrected. (My rant about the guy not using common sense and accepting responsibility for his own actions deleted). |
| On a side note, I was contacted by phone and e-mail by the maker of the product after the incident happened. He wanted to make his product safe for using in 37mm launchers and did not know how to do so. I still have those e-mails. He did not know that the victim and I were friends, and that he had helped me design my website and forum. I was pretty upset, to say the least, that the guy was wanting people to use his product in launchers, even after this happened. (I believe he advertised his product for use in launchers before this also.) He admitted that he did no testing of his product in launchers, to see if it was safe, or took into account the shock imparted to a payload when fired from a 37mm casing, black powder or smokeless. I think his e-mails were a deciding factor in the lawsuit BTW... GROG |
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On a side note, I was contacted by phone and e-mail by the maker of the product after the incident happened. He wanted to make his product safe for using in 37mm launchers and did not know how to do so. I still have those e-mails. He did not know that the victim and I were friends, and that he had helped me design my website and forum. I was pretty upset, to say the least, that the guy was wanting people to use his product in launchers, even after this happened. (I believe he advertised his product for use in launchers before this also.) He admitted that he did no testing of his product in launchers, to see if it was safe, or took into account the shock imparted to a payload when fired from a 37mm casing, black powder or smokeless. I think his e-mails were a deciding factor in the lawsuit BTW... GROG OK, that changes things. Being it was a binary explosive, how was he expecting it to be detonated? Did he just sell the stuff, expect someone to stick a visco fuze in there, and it would detonate after a delay? Did he even have a clue that it would take more than that? And he still sold it after knowledge of this incident? If that's how it went down, then yeah, the idiot deserved to get sued. |
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Quoted: There are two issues at play here. You can own explosives but not a destructive device, and can have a tax stamp for a destructive device yet lack the capacity to store explosives. First, check all federal, state, and local laws for your location. Second, to own a hand grenade, get yourself a tax stamp for a destructive device like I got. Pay your $200 and wait for nearly a year. That stamp gives you permission to make a destructive device that is an antipersonnel fragmentation grenade. Congrats. Now, you have to satisfy the other prong of the issue. You could get yourself a federal explosives license and a magazine approved by the ATF and make yourself a grenade loaded with high explosives that you would keep in that magazine and check weekly. OR you could take your tax stamp, build yourself a grenade body, obtain or make a fuze assembly with less than a quarter ounce of explosives and keep a binary explosive handy to 'load' your stamped destructive device when you are ready to expend it. That way, when you 'load' the grenade, you are perfectly legal so long as you expend it immediately and do not transport it in its loaded state. That way, you do not run afoul of storage and transport laws, but retain the legal authority to manufacture an explosive destructive device. YMMV, IANAL. I can own a grenade... etc. Quoted: Quoted: No "SPI" here champ. You can buy C4 as a DD or can it only be made like a hand grenade? When getting a DD you don't need to supply a reason like demolition correct? You don't need to notify if you are going to use it correct? Like if I registered and made a hand grenade and used it in a legal manner would I need to contact the ATF to say its gone? Destructive devices have always intrigued me and I'm not sure where to research them any FAQ or info resource would be greatly helpful! There are two issues at play here. You can own explosives but not a destructive device, and can have a tax stamp for a destructive device yet lack the capacity to store explosives. First, check all federal, state, and local laws for your location. Second, to own a hand grenade, get yourself a tax stamp for a destructive device like I got. Pay your $200 and wait for nearly a year. That stamp gives you permission to make a destructive device that is an antipersonnel fragmentation grenade. Congrats. Now, you have to satisfy the other prong of the issue. You could get yourself a federal explosives license and a magazine approved by the ATF and make yourself a grenade loaded with high explosives that you would keep in that magazine and check weekly. OR you could take your tax stamp, build yourself a grenade body, obtain or make a fuze assembly with less than a quarter ounce of explosives and keep a binary explosive handy to 'load' your stamped destructive device when you are ready to expend it. That way, when you 'load' the grenade, you are perfectly legal so long as you expend it immediately and do not transport it in its loaded state. That way, you do not run afoul of storage and transport laws, but retain the legal authority to manufacture an explosive destructive device. YMMV, IANAL. I can own a grenade... etc.  |
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YMMV, IANAL. I can own a grenade... etc. Hey, I may very well be the first/only Arfcom member to personally own a legal fragmentation grenade (definitely the only one I know of). I may up the ante a bit and be the first Arfcommer to own a legal landmine. Because screw you guys, I'm an American ETA: And my grenade serial number is Wingnut87. I think that, in and of itself, is cause for celebration. |
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