Armory Sponsor
Griffin Armament DUAL-LOK 5 AM suppressor test (Page 3 of 4)
|
Originally Posted By Kgknight1037: Thanks for sharing. I am going to keep an eye on the other hub cans I have. If I get any loosening on the hub cans I am going to rocksett the threads. I just don’t want to have to worry about the hub adapter coming out of the can. I use griffins plan A almost exclusively now and the tapers have never let me down. I have had xeno and cat loosen up between muzzle device and adapter. If I could start over I’d just use dual lock. I have dual lock 7 and that system is pretty cool. Been wondering how well simple thread tape might work in this application. |
|
Originally Posted By hoody2shoez: i use a little rocksett on my hub mounts. The caveat with Rocksette is that it requires water to break its bond, & I can't see water working its way very readily into a tight thread-torqued assembly. Locktite 2620 (red) is good to ~650°F, but it's in the lower T operating threshold, & is removable with application of a heat gun or torch. So it seems like 2620+spec torque would be the safest option. |
|
Originally Posted By Master_Blaster: The caveat with Rocksette is that it requires water to break its bond, & I can't see water working its way very readily into a tight thread-torqued assembly. Locktite 2620 (red) is good to ~650°F, but it's in the lower T operating threshold, & is removable with application of a heat gun or torch. So it seems like 2620+spec torque would be the safest option. Originally Posted By Master_Blaster: Originally Posted By hoody2shoez: i use a little rocksett on my hub mounts. The caveat with Rocksette is that it requires water to break its bond, & I can't see water working its way very readily into a tight thread-torqued assembly. Locktite 2620 (red) is good to ~650°F, but it's in the lower T operating threshold, & is removable with application of a heat gun or torch. So it seems like 2620+spec torque would be the safest option. when I say 'little' i mean LITTLE. like single drop. Never had an issue with them walking and only needs one 'ugga' to break loose. no dugga required |
|
Originally Posted By Green0: The concessions are really small to the point of almost being un-noticeable in terms of flash signature for example. The muzzle sound is the largest difference, but that's not totally the predominant sound the shooter is hearing at the small difference of ~6DB between the two models with that 6 being in the 130 range rather than 140 where it hits harder. Ear sound is ~2-3DB higher I believe. Shooting the HRT5K the size is really small, and the performance really solid for the size, and that kind of package of attributes has a sort of odd likeability factor. 5K just got delivered today! Should get to take it out later this week, very excited to try it out. Got a bit trigger happy and also bought a HRT5-AM, which should get here in a week or two, that'll live on my 11.5".  |
|
Originally Posted By Waaerja: 5K just got delivered today! Should get to take it out later this week, very excited to try it out. Got a bit trigger happy and also bought a HRT5-AM, which should get here in a week or two, that'll live on my 11.5". https://imgur.com/a/3UE4BYE really interested in the 5K..I switched from that to the regular HRT-AM and really like it...thinking about getting the K as well... |
|
Originally Posted By Brahmzy: Nice - I’ve just been having my conjugal visits. Super low serial numbers on these things! We stood up somewhere around 27 models this year so many got additive manufactured around a week, and then produced in one day of silencer assembly process numbers, and then got a second day of assembly production later. So like 500 each of 27 models makes like 13,500 cans, and thats just stand up line inventory. Things run slower when every product is first time process product and nothing is getting settup to run even two days in a department like welding in succession. Line production favors staying in a process for several days or longer in terms of actually achieving efficiency. About 35% of process time this year is probably lost to changeover and settup, first article inspection etc. This is what R&D and innovation costs. People are often rapid to pretend no advancement happens in firearms, but in a lot of companies in our industry there is advancement happening daily all year and looking back it is difficult to find a time it wasn’t happening. |
Austin, Managing Partner - www.GriffinArmament.com
|
Originally Posted By Green0: We stood up somewhere around 27 models this year so many got additive manufactured around a week, and then produced in one day of silencer assembly process numbers, and then got a second day of assembly production later. So like 500 each of 27 models makes like 13,500 cans, and thats just stand up line inventory. Things run slower when every product is first time process product and nothing is getting settup to run even two days in a department like welding in succession. Line production favors staying in a process for several days or longer in terms of actually achieving efficiency. About 35% of process time this year is probably lost to changeover and settup, first article inspection etc. This is what R&D and innovation costs. People are often rapid to pretend no advancement happens in firearms, but in a lot of companies in our industry there is advancement happening daily all year and looking back it is difficult to find a time it wasn’t happening. Man I need to come visit you guys. Promise I wouldn’t pester too bad. I’d bring beer, too. I’d love to get a quick tour. Even just running a CS dept as well as you do is something that’s getting lost, quickly. Every time I’ve had a question that goes beyond what’s appropriate on the forums or IM, your CS guys are super knowledgeable and don’t just blow smoke. They’re there to try to help the customer - go figure. |
|
Originally Posted By BlackbirdRider: really interested in the 5K..I switched from that to the regular HRT-AM and really like it...thinking about getting the K as well... In terms of form factor it's awesome, particularly for a longer gun like the 14.5 I have it on. But I've also put it on my 11.5 and that makes for a pretty awesome compact setup. Very interested to shoot both cans on both hosts back-to-back and see what they sound like. I'll come back with an update after I get a chance to shoot them! |
|
Originally Posted By Brahmzy: Man I need to come visit you guys. Promise I wouldn’t pester too bad. I’d bring beer, too. I’d love to get a quick tour. Even just running a CS dept as well as you do is something that’s getting lost, quickly. Every time I’ve had a question that goes beyond what’s appropriate on the forums or IM, your CS guys are super knowledgeable and don’t just blow smoke. They’re there to try to help the customer - go figure. If you are ever in the area, ask the CS guys at the retail counter. Beer is cool. I used to have beer at the office but in classical Wisconsin fashion I like beer too much and needed to cut back so I just have espresso, pom, and seltzer now for the last couple years. |
Austin, Managing Partner - www.GriffinArmament.com
| Got both of them out to the range yesterday! Made a new thread about them here, for anyone who might come across this and is interested. |
|
@Green0 I watched a video of your mfg. site and assembly process and was impressed. That along with this post has me convinced my next can (immanent purchase) will be a Griffin. However, I have a question regarding which model to purchase. The can will be going on an 11.5 BCM. I am not sure which can of those listed below I should purchase. Can you help me narrow this down? Dual - Lok 5 AM Dual - Lok HRT-556 AM Dual - Lok HRT-5K AM 
|
|
Originally Posted By KTM300XCW: I have a question regarding which model to purchase. The can will be going on an 11.5 BCM. I am not sure which can of those listed below I should purchase. Can you help me narrow this down? Dual - Lok 5 AM Dual - Lok HRT-556 AM Dual - Lok HRT-5K AM Really depends on what your priorities are... Maximum sound suppression above anything else? From the conversations higher up in this thread, the DL5AM is probably your pick. If keeping things compact is important to you, then the 5K. Maximum durability and extremely low back pressure, HRT-556 AM. |
|
Originally Posted By Waaerja: Really depends on what your priorities are... Maximum sound suppression above anything else? From the conversations higher up in this thread, the DL5AM is probably your pick. If keeping things compact is important to you, then the 5K. Maximum durability and extremely low back pressure, HRT-556 AM. I believe the lowest pressure is the HRT5K AM. The HRT556AM right behind. The DL5AM if you're a right handed shooter and your OK with the managed backpressure meaning it shoots like a low pressure can so long as you're not a lefty shooter, and are OK with ejection patterns at 2 oclock. |
Austin, Managing Partner - www.GriffinArmament.com
|
Originally Posted By Green0: I believe the lowest pressure is the HRT5K AM. The HRT556AM right behind. The DL5AM if you're a right handed shooter and your OK with the managed backpressure meaning it shoots like a low pressure can so long as you're not a lefty shooter, and are OK with ejection patterns at 2 oclock. Originally Posted By Green0: Originally Posted By Waaerja: Really depends on what your priorities are... Maximum sound suppression above anything else? From the conversations higher up in this thread, the DL5AM is probably your pick. If keeping things compact is important to you, then the 5K. Maximum durability and extremely low back pressure, HRT-556 AM. I believe the lowest pressure is the HRT5K AM. The HRT556AM right behind. The DL5AM if you're a right handed shooter and your OK with the managed backpressure meaning it shoots like a low pressure can so long as you're not a lefty shooter, and are OK with ejection patterns at 2 oclock. Thanks, I assume the DL5AM is the quietest of the bunch? If so, I think I can deal with the managed gas. I am coming from a SiCo Omega 300 with flat end cap if that tells you what kind of gas I have been dealing with. I assume the DL5AM is nothing remotely like the Omega in back pressure? |
|
Originally Posted By KTM300XCW: Thanks, I assume the DL5AM is the quietest of the bunch? If so, I think I can deal with the managed gas. I am coming from a SiCo Omega 300 with flat end cap if that tells you what kind of gas I have been dealing with. I assume the DL5AM is nothing remotely like the Omega in back pressure? Probably not. The DL5 feels like a lot of the low backpressure cans from the right hand shooter perspective. And I haven’t shot all of those left handed to understand where they are, but the HRT556 AM is where I would go if the shooter is going to be left handed with face in line with the ejection port area. Thats going to be the only noticeable difference in performance. |
Austin, Managing Partner - www.GriffinArmament.com
|
Originally Posted By Green0: Probably not. The DL5 feels like a lot of the low backpressure cans from the right hand shooter perspective. And I haven’t shot all of those left handed to understand where they are, but the HRT556 AM is where I would go if the shooter is going to be left handed with face in line with the ejection port area. Thats going to be the only noticeable difference in performance. Originally Posted By Green0: Originally Posted By KTM300XCW: Thanks, I assume the DL5AM is the quietest of the bunch? If so, I think I can deal with the managed gas. I am coming from a SiCo Omega 300 with flat end cap if that tells you what kind of gas I have been dealing with. I assume the DL5AM is nothing remotely like the Omega in back pressure? Probably not. The DL5 feels like a lot of the low backpressure cans from the right hand shooter perspective. And I haven’t shot all of those left handed to understand where they are, but the HRT556 AM is where I would go if the shooter is going to be left handed with face in line with the ejection port area. Thats going to be the only noticeable difference in performance. Thanks for the information. I'm headed over to Capital Armory today to see what they have on hand. Honestly, I was just about decided on a Rhodie 6, Fireteam 556, or Tisha 556 which are as hard to find as hens teeth. Now I am throwing the DL5AM and HRT556 AM into the pool. |
|
Originally Posted By KTM300XCW: Thanks for the information. I'm headed over to Capital Armory today to see what they have on hand. Honestly, I was just about decided on a Rhodie 6, Fireteam 556, or Tisha 556 which are as hard to find as hens teeth. Now I am throwing the DL5AM and HRT556 AM into the pool. We are a larger company so inventory hasn't really been a problem this year at least so far. We about doubled our capacity from last year. You should be able to find both cans, in both colors. The built in mount cans are a lot more serious than a Hub can, and there is more to that so even at identical cost, the built in mount nickel superalloy can is a better value than a Hub version. |
Austin, Managing Partner - www.GriffinArmament.com
|
Originally Posted By Green0: We are a larger company so inventory hasn't really been a problem this year at least so far. We about doubled our capacity from last year. You should be able to find both cans, in both colors. The built in mount cans are a lot more serious than a Hub can, and there is more to that so even at identical cost, the built in mount nickel superalloy can is a better value than a Hub version. Originally Posted By Green0: Originally Posted By KTM300XCW: Thanks for the information. I'm headed over to Capital Armory today to see what they have on hand. Honestly, I was just about decided on a Rhodie 6, Fireteam 556, or Tisha 556 which are as hard to find as hens teeth. Now I am throwing the DL5AM and HRT556 AM into the pool. We are a larger company so inventory hasn't really been a problem this year at least so far. We about doubled our capacity from last year. You should be able to find both cans, in both colors. The built in mount cans are a lot more serious than a Hub can, and there is more to that so even at identical cost, the built in mount nickel superalloy can is a better value than a Hub version. Thanks, I ended up buying the DL5AM. When I get it in hand I'll post some thoughts. Thanks for your help. |
|
Originally Posted By KTM300XCW: Thanks, I ended up buying the DL5AM. When I get it in hand I'll post some thoughts. Thanks for your help. That's a cool can, it really sounds good. Glad to help. Thanks for the business. |
Austin, Managing Partner - www.GriffinArmament.com
|
Originally Posted By Green0: That's a cool can, it really sounds good. Glad to help. Thanks for the business. Originally Posted By Green0: Originally Posted By KTM300XCW: Thanks, I ended up buying the DL5AM. When I get it in hand I'll post some thoughts. Thanks for your help. That's a cool can, it really sounds good. Glad to help. Thanks for the business. Yes sir, happy to give you guys some business. To be honest, I also bought a Tisha to try as well. They had a couple in stock and I couldn't resist. 
|
|
Originally Posted By KTM300XCW: Yes sir, happy to give you guys some business. To be honest, I also bought a Tisha to try as well. They had a couple in stock and I couldn't resist. It would be interesting to compare the tisha and HRT556 in sound and flash on the same platform. I almost bought an inconel one used on gunbroker, but it had a picture of baffle erosion on 3 baffles that gave the baffles the appearance of being more or less .028” thick, and that was nice in that I knew I wouldnt get normal performance, and also it helped me to understand that it wasn’t really apples to apples to compare a can with a .125” thick blast baffle aperture to one that was that thin. |
Austin, Managing Partner - www.GriffinArmament.com
|
Originally Posted By Green0:It would be interesting to compare the tisha and HRT556 in sound and flash on the same platform. I almost bought an inconel one used on gunbroker, but it had a picture of baffle erosion on 3 baffles that gave the baffles the appearance of being more or less .028” thick, and that was nice in that I knew I wouldnt get normal performance, and also it helped me to understand that it wasn’t really apples to apples to compare a can with a .125” thick blast baffle aperture to one that was that thin. |
|
Never mind the ad should have probably put Ti in the title and then I wouldn't have thought it was the inconel unit. https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1190142596 |
Austin, Managing Partner - www.GriffinArmament.com
|
Originally Posted By Green0:The can I was looking at had that style of baffle in it... |
| Thanks for that clarification. I made a mistake the sale ad is doing a shit job without ti in the title to the ad. The thickness of the 2nd and third baffles is still looking not amazing, but the TI makes the wear completely make sense. Ti kind of sucks for errosion. |
Austin, Managing Partner - www.GriffinArmament.com
|
@Green0 Either the algorithm has me pegged, or more of your products are getting out there. Recently I saw an (excellent) review of your MK2 rifle, and suppressor reviews from AT3 and another from Barrel and Hatchet. I'm glad to see the Griffin name getting some recognition out there! |
|
Griffin Armament rocks - always has. These past 2-3 years have been really good for Griffin - I sort of stepped away from the forums and the industry for a few years and just enjoyed shooting and crazy busy with work / family. Well I got the itch to poke around 3-4 months ago and wow - Griffin’s got tons of new high-quality stuff. Innovating and improving constantly.  And emptying my wallet constantly, lol. |
|
Originally Posted By bmarshall1: @Green0 Either the algorithm has me pegged, or more of your products are getting out there. Recently I saw an (excellent) review of your MK2 rifle, and suppressor reviews from AT3 and another from Barrel and Hatchet. I'm glad to see the Griffin name getting some recognition out there! I appreciate the feedback. We are working really hard, as we know the industry is growing and we would like to grow with it. Market share dilution has been a threat over the last few years as companies like B&T pop up and manage very effective marketing campaigns. Ideally the companies with dedication to customers and the space can do well and stay relevant. I have no idea how much national sales of suppressors are up, so in a manner of speaking we work against our imagination of what might be happening. Our capacity has never been stronger. We have experienced no major inventory shortages this year in suppressors. We’re trying to develop greater sales reach. The objective is to maintain or improve a position relative the market as the market grows which is more of a long term security / stability consideration than a profit consideration. |
Austin, Managing Partner - www.GriffinArmament.com
|
@Green0 How much attention do you pay to the tone of your cans? I watch a fair amount of Silencer Analytics (SA) content and one item he mentions quite a bit is tone. He may say something like 'this can is a bit more loud, but the tone is really good' (low). Or 'this can is more quiet but the tone is sharp, so it's out of the contest'. What's the secret to a lower tone, releasing the gas more slowely? Also, what are your thoughts on the Strategic Sciences MFMD (Multi-Function Muzzle Device). Per SA, in full configuration it absolutely the quietest he's ever heard, still quite good in the 1/2 config. He also states on some rifles it creates negative backpressure: this I can understand through sound wave rebound (think 2 stroke exhaust). Sure it's huge, heavy, expensive, and a few other negatives, but how do they do it: maybe I answered my own question- it's big and heavy with intricate pathways. |
|
Originally Posted By bmarshall1: @Green0 How much attention do you pay to the tone of your cans? I watch a fair amount of Silencer Analytics (SA) content and one item he mentions quite a bit is tone. He may say something like 'this can is a bit more loud, but the tone is really good' (low). Or 'this can is more quiet but the tone is sharp, so it's out of the contest'. What's the secret to a lower tone, releasing the gas more slowely? Also, what are your thoughts on the Strategic Sciences MFMD (Multi-Function Muzzle Device). Per SA, in full configuration it absolutely the quietest he's ever heard, still quite good in the 1/2 config. He also states on some rifles it creates negative backpressure: this I can understand through sound wave rebound (think 2 stroke exhaust). Sure it's huge, heavy, expensive, and a few other negatives, but how do they do it: maybe I answered my own question- it's big and heavy with intricate pathways. There is a lot there. I agree a good tone can mean a lot. I think canceling certain frequencies can improve tone. I'm not a music major, so I couldn't really say whether better sounding was high or low frequency. I like it when a suppressor sounds less like a gunshot. The more the suppressor sounds like a gunshot that is not as loud, the less likeable I perceive that to be. The MFMD changes the game completely- it says, "screw $900, we'll be $2400, and screw 12 cubic inches of volume we'll have 32 cubic inches or whatever they have. It says screw 16 ounces, we'll have 34 or something." No doubt it is quiet, and it works. But at what point do you leave functional and economically viable behind? That's kind of like inventing the longer wearing tire by making the tread an inch taller, and tripling the price of the tire. |
Austin, Managing Partner - www.GriffinArmament.com
|
@Green0 The DL5AM is on my short list to go with my MK2 (when available). Question: Are there any plans to produce the DL5AM (or any of those types of cans in Ti. At 15.7 oz, although I KNOW it's indestructible in normal use, it's on the heavy side, I like the can but also not looking not to hang 16oz off the end of the barrel. While were here, what about the PRC-300, is this more geared toward bolt guns so any chance of a Ti version? I know lots more SKU numbers to manage. |
|
Originally Posted By bmarshall1: @Green0 The DL5AM is on my short list to go with my MK2 (when available). Question: Are there any plans to produce the DL5AM (or any of those types of cans in Ti. At 15.7 oz, although I KNOW it's indestructible in normal use, it's on the heavy side, I like the can but also not looking not to hang 16oz off the end of the barrel. While were here, what about the PRC-300, is this more geared toward bolt guns so any chance of a Ti version? I know lots more SKU numbers to manage. We just haven't brought any titanium additive in house so I don't know the answer for you right now. Titanium leaves a lot to be desired as it is tempermental in additive and requires an atmospheric furnace for stress relief and argon purged laser engraving apparatus. We would need dedicated machine for print and depowder so it's a lot of investment altogether to get into something that has all the potential for problems that it does. We probably wouldn't be welding anything to that, so the prints would have to be hub. So many limitations and requirements makes it tough to want to jump into. |
Austin, Managing Partner - www.GriffinArmament.com
|
Originally Posted By willi3d: Picked up my confusingly named HUB DL5 AM last week, but probably won’t take it out until next week. Have to change the muzzle device on the gun I want to try it on first. Mine’s gotta be ANY DAY NOW. Picked up my HRT5KAM 2 days ago but I’m still waiting on my 3 other Griffin cans and my 2 KAC cans. Argh. NFA turns patient people into impatient people, myself included. |
|
Originally Posted By Brahmzy: Mine’s gotta be ANY DAY NOW. Picked up my HRT5KAM 2 days ago but I’m still waiting on my 3 other Griffin cans and my 2 KAC cans. Argh. NFA turns patient people into impatient people, myself included. I kind of find myself wanting things to happen in the suppressor industry, looking for news and either it doesn’t move fast enough or my attention span is too short. Or maybe a combination. |
Austin, Managing Partner - www.GriffinArmament.com
|
Originally Posted By bmarshall1: I was watching an episode of silence or analytics the other day and I do believe they have a couple of Griffin cans, I'm not sure which model but I'm looking forward and I hope they get a great review I saw a couple of HRT5AM/5K Am cans it seemed with Hubs. I wanted to send the Dual Lok versions so I don't know what happened there. |
Austin, Managing Partner - www.GriffinArmament.com
|
Originally Posted By awd_xtc: Is there a big difference in sound between the dl5 am and the full size hrt556 am? I should also mention this gun is run a lot in frt mode. Per the website DL5AM -37.6dB (129.0dB on 12.5" MK2 M193) HRT5AM -36.6dB (131.0 dB on 12.5" MK2 5.56mm) I could be wrong, but I think @Green0 said the HRT AM series are even tougher in regards to slightly more internal baffle material and slightly more weight. This may be a deciding factor with your FRT use. |
|
Originally Posted By hoody2shoez: when I say 'little' i mean LITTLE. like single drop. Never had an issue with them walking and only needs one 'ugga' to break loose. no dugga required Probably the reasonable strategy. Just enough to keep it locked, but still removable with sufficient mechanical force. |
Griffin Armament DUAL-LOK 5 AM suppressor test (Page 3 of 4)
Armory Sponsor