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Posted: 10/24/2015 11:43:11 PM EDT
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So picked up my m4-2000 this weekend. I noticed it can't quite get tight on the the 51t which I hear is a common thing. However I notice that with it locked as tight as I can get it it wobbles latterly and not just on the rotation axis. This kind of worries me for baffle strikes.
Should I be concerned on just shoot it? |
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Sort of normal. I just got the 5.56 and 7.62. Bought a bunch of 51T Blackouts ahead of time. So far mine all lock on tight - somehow catch the "last" tooth. Depending on your choice of mount - here is a video link:
Breakout May apply to Blackout and Breakout mounts. Some say they tighten up with use. Some say not. I have read other cans can do the same thing. |
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Yeah I saw that video. I've got 2 other blackouts one of which is same as my brakeout, one I have not tried yet. Guess I'll try that tomorrow and if no good I'll throw my brakeout on my lathe and see what I can do.
Anyone know on average how much needs to come off? I might just take 1/1000th off at a time. |
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It is designed to have slight "rotational" play. You are supposed to tighten it all the way down, then back it off a tooth and snug it up so that the latch is resting on the groove of the muzzle device when it is rotated backwards slightly.
Either way, wobble is not normal, rotational play is. Wobble would consist of what the op is saying and I guess it could happen, but if it is excessive it could likely cause issues. |
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Shoot the gun with the brake to get some carbon on it. Then shoot the gun with the brake/can on it. It will tighten up after some carbon deposits. Don’t go removing material from the brake like that guy in the video. I have over 5k rounds through a M4200 & two SDN-6’s. They all tighten up after some shooting.
There is nothing wrong with your can. |
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The brake was excessively lose and it has about 500 rounds fired through it with a brake shield over it, I could move the can side to side to the point where looking down the barrel you could see it obstruct the barrel. One of my blackout is little less loose but still more than Id like and my last blackout Locks up nicely so I guess I'll use that one for now. I'll try and lathe my brakeout down centricly and see if I can get good lock up. If I screw up the brakeout it's not a big deal cause it came off my pistol which sits too far in rail to fit the m4-2000 on anyways.
I know this is common problems with the 51t but still frustrating. If I didn't get it for a incredible deal then I would of avoided it because of this. |
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The brake was excessively lose and it has about 500 rounds fired through it with a brake shield over it, I could move the can side to side to the point where looking down the barrel you could see it obstruct the barrel. One of my blackout is little less loose but still more than Id like and my last blackout Locks up nicely so I guess I'll use that one for now. I'll try and lathe my brakeout down centricly and see if I can get good lock up. If I screw up the brakeout it's not a big deal cause it came off my pistol which sits too far in rail to fit the m4-2000 on anyways. I know this is common problems with the 51t but still frustrating. If I didn't get it for a incredible deal then I would of avoided it because of this. The side to side movement is not normal. If it really is as bad as you are describing I would not shoot it on that mount and let AAC fix whatever the problem is. With their recent relocation, this may take quite a while. Slight rotational play is normal, some have it and some don't. |
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Its fine Apperently not. Second mag through took chunks out of the first two baffles and bent the end cap out. AAC will not replace it per my emails and they want to fix it. Don't know how you can fix the mounting surface on a welded can when the tolerance is too lose. This is why I should of listened to those wise in my life and went surefire. |
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Quoted:
Apperently not. Second mag through took chunks out of the first two baffles and bent the end cap out. AAC will not replace it per my emails and they want to fix it. Don't know how you can fix the mounting surface on a welded can when the tolerance is too lose. This is why I should of listened to those wise in my life and went surefire. Quoted:
Quoted:
Its fine Apperently not. Second mag through took chunks out of the first two baffles and bent the end cap out. AAC will not replace it per my emails and they want to fix it. Don't know how you can fix the mounting surface on a welded can when the tolerance is too lose. This is why I should of listened to those wise in my life and went surefire. Got pics? Everyone makes a lemon every now and then...even surefire. Shouldn't be too hard to fix. Cut it open, fix internals and re-weld new metal shut. |
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Quoted:
Apperently not. Second mag through took chunks out of the first two baffles and bent the end cap out. AAC will not replace it per my emails and they want to fix it. Don't know how you can fix the mounting surface on a welded can when the tolerance is too lose. This is why I should of listened to those wise in my life and went surefire. Quoted:
Quoted:
Its fine Apperently not. Second mag through took chunks out of the first two baffles and bent the end cap out. AAC will not replace it per my emails and they want to fix it. Don't know how you can fix the mounting surface on a welded can when the tolerance is too lose. This is why I should of listened to those wise in my life and went surefire. 
First range trip? ETA: pics please |
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Quoted:
Apperently not. Second mag through took chunks out of the first two baffles and bent the end cap out. AAC will not replace it per my emails and they want to fix it. Don't know how you can fix the mounting surface on a welded can when the tolerance is too lose. This is why I should of listened to those wise in my life and went surefire. Quoted:
Quoted:
Its fine Apperently not. Second mag through took chunks out of the first two baffles and bent the end cap out. AAC will not replace it per my emails and they want to fix it. Don't know how you can fix the mounting surface on a welded can when the tolerance is too lose. This is why I should of listened to those wise in my life and went surefire. Why on earth did you go out and shoot it when you noticed that you could wobble it to the point of obstruction? Definitely a failure of either the mount or the can or both, but there is no way in hell that can should've been used based on what you posted here. I get being excited about a new can, everyone here can identify with that, but why would you put yourself and your expensive (both time and money) gear in such a dangerous situation? I hope no one was hurt. |
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Quoted:
Apperently not. Second mag through took chunks out of the first two baffles and bent the end cap out. AAC will not replace it per my emails and they want to fix it. Don't know how you can fix the mounting surface on a welded can when the tolerance is too lose. This is why I should of listened to those wise in my life and went surefire. Quoted:
Quoted:
Its fine Apperently not. Second mag through took chunks out of the first two baffles and bent the end cap out. AAC will not replace it per my emails and they want to fix it. Don't know how you can fix the mounting surface on a welded can when the tolerance is too lose. This is why I should of listened to those wise in my life and went surefire. This seems odd to me. Pictures please!!! no offense but i don't really believe you. And.. if the can/mount failed like that after only two mags, then you should have been able to see the wobble/imbalance in the can/mount before shooting it, meaning you shouldn't have used it without contacting your dealer. Its possible you got a rare dud can, but it seems odd its that bad and AAC won't fix the problem. I have over 30,000 rounds of mostly burst/auto fire through M4-2000 and SDN6 cans and have never had any issues. The M4-2000 is an excellent can (statement backed by thousands of users), so I wouldn't necessarily jump on the surefire coolaid bandwagon yet. some of my SDN6s and M4-2000s wobble more than others, but NEVER a single issue. If you are having issues with AAC maybe you are calling the wrong number? I've never had any issues with their Customer service. Call their phone number listed on their website and they will answer. Emails from them usually take about a week in my experience. Sorry there's just something odd about this story. |
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Quoted:
Apperently not. Second mag through took chunks out of the first two baffles and bent the end cap out. AAC will not replace it per my emails and they want to fix it. Don't know how you can fix the mounting surface on a welded can when the tolerance is too lose. This is why I should of listened to those wise in my life and went surefire. Quoted:
Quoted:
Its fine Apperently not. Second mag through took chunks out of the first two baffles and bent the end cap out. AAC will not replace it per my emails and they want to fix it. Don't know how you can fix the mounting surface on a welded can when the tolerance is too lose. This is why I should of listened to those wise in my life and went surefire. Replacement involves a new tube and another wait and tax stamp... while fixing involves rebuilding the same tube. |
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Wow you all are a bunch of asshole... guess I should not expect anything less from ar15.com
I did contact my dealer and AAC and they all said what was said on here. That amount of play is normal, just shoot it and the carbon will lock it on. AAC sent return label to repair my suppressor but I was never a fan of AAC before which is why id rather go with something else. I can write a story of all the facts. its a stock DD mk18 upper with concentric threads, precision armament accu washers used for precision alignment of the 51t, quality kobalt torque wrench used and flash hider installed with AAC blackout tool per AAC instructions exactly. Factory Federal and Remington 55gr and 62gr (no green tip) was used. The ammo used was stuff I have been using for years with no key holing or unstable in anyway. 
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Wow you all are a bunch of asshole... guess I should not expect anything less from ar15.com I did contact my dealer and AAC and they all said what was said on here. That amount of play is normal, just shoot it and the carbon will lock it on. AAC sent return label to repair my suppressor but I was never a fan of AAC before which is why id rather go with something else. I can write a story of all the facts. its a stock DD mk18 upper with concentric threads, precision armament accu washers used for precision alignment of the 51t, quality kobalt torque wrench used and flash hider installed with AAC blackout tool per AAC instructions exactly. Factory Federal and Remington 55gr and 62gr (no green tip) was used. The ammo used was stuff I have been using for years with no key holing or unstable in anyway. <a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/hangingchads/media/IMG_2717_zpshv1orbzs.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/hangingchads/IMG_2717_zpshv1orbzs.jpg</a> <a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/hangingchads/media/IMG_2718_zpsmze9zwov.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/hangingchads/IMG_2718_zpsmze9zwov.jpg</a> <a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/hangingchads/media/IMG_2719_zps3xmpwlsh.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/hangingchads/IMG_2719_zps3xmpwlsh.jpg</a> My apologies, I believe you. That's just crazy though, you seriously have some bad luck I've never heard of a new can of any reputable brand being mounted to its mount and then have issues within two mags, especially not from a DD upper. Pretty crazy stuff. I think AAC will take care of you though. Good luck. Maybe try silencerCo, I'm buying all their stuff from now on. |
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Wow you all are a bunch of asshole... guess I should not expect anything less from ar15.com I did contact my dealer and AAC and they all said what was said on here. That amount of play is normal, just shoot it and the carbon will lock it on. AAC sent return label to repair my suppressor but I was never a fan of AAC before which is why id rather go with something else. I can write a story of all the facts. its a stock DD mk18 upper with concentric threads, precision armament accu washers used for precision alignment of the 51t, quality kobalt torque wrench used and flash hider installed with AAC blackout tool per AAC instructions exactly. Factory Federal and Remington 55gr and 62gr (no green tip) was used. The ammo used was stuff I have been using for years with no key holing or unstable in anyway. <a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/hangingchads/media/IMG_2717_zpshv1orbzs.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/hangingchads/IMG_2717_zpshv1orbzs.jpg</a> <a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/hangingchads/media/IMG_2718_zpsmze9zwov.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/hangingchads/IMG_2718_zpsmze9zwov.jpg</a> <a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/user/hangingchads/media/IMG_2719_zps3xmpwlsh.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/hangingchads/IMG_2719_zps3xmpwlsh.jpg</a> Looks like you bottomed the can on the rail/not enough shims between the barrel shoulder and the flash hider. My DD MK18 has a AAC brake. I had to shim quite a bit to get at least 100 thousandths between the rail and the can when attached on full lock. |
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Looks like you bottomed the can on the rail/not enough shims between the barrel shoulder and the flash hider. My DD MK18 has a AAC brake. I had to shim quite a bit to get at least 100 thousandths between the rail and the can when attached on full lock. beautiful observation! |
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Can you take a pic with the can mounted? It looks to me like it was bottoming out on the rail, which would then make it pretty obvious why you had so much lateral movement.
There's a TON of M4-2000s, SDN-6s, etc. out there and it sounds like none of us have ever seen this before. Things can happen, but looking at how close your flash hider is to the rail, as well as the fact you used aftermarket shims, as well as what looks like a witness mark on the back of the silencer, makes me think that's what's happening. |
| I would like to see a picture also of it screwed on all the way. There have been tons of reports of wobbly mounts on this system and they have consistently told people to just shoot them and carbon buildup would make them more secure over time. That is why you got the advise on doing that from AAC, the Dealer, and people here. |
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Can you take a pic with the can mounted? It looks to me like it was bottoming out on the rail, which would then make it pretty obvious why you had so much lateral movement. There's a TON of M4-2000s, SDN-6s, etc. out there and it sounds like none of us have ever seen this before. Things can happen, but looking at how close your flash hider is to the rail, as well as the fact you used aftermarket shims, as well as what looks like a witness mark on the back of the silencer, makes me think that's what's happening. You clearly know more about M42ks than I do but it seems half the suppressors in the MK18 thread are M42ks (others being SOCOMs or NT4s) and nobody mentions this issue. They all have to shim the shit out of the muzzle device to clear the 9.55" RIS II? |
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You clearly know more about M42ks than I do but it seems half the suppressors in the MK18 thread are M42ks (others being SOCOMs or NT4s) and nobody mentions this issue. They all have to shim the shit out of the muzzle device to clear the 9.55" RIS II? Quoted:
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Can you take a pic with the can mounted? It looks to me like it was bottoming out on the rail, which would then make it pretty obvious why you had so much lateral movement. There's a TON of M4-2000s, SDN-6s, etc. out there and it sounds like none of us have ever seen this before. Things can happen, but looking at how close your flash hider is to the rail, as well as the fact you used aftermarket shims, as well as what looks like a witness mark on the back of the silencer, makes me think that's what's happening. You clearly know more about M42ks than I do but it seems half the suppressors in the MK18 thread are M42ks (others being SOCOMs or NT4s) and nobody mentions this issue. They all have to shim the shit out of the muzzle device to clear the 9.55" RIS II? Shimming the mount is okay as long as it's done properly. It looks to me like he didn't shim his enough. M4-2000s, SDN-6s, etc. need to be tightened all the way down onto the mount. If they aren't, you'll notice a massive amount of play on the mount, just like you would expect. Shooting it in that condition would be ridiculous. |
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Shimming the mount is okay as long as it's done properly. It looks to me like he didn't shim his enough. M4-2000s, SDN-6s, etc. need to be tightened all the way down onto the mount. If they aren't, you'll notice a massive amount of play on the mount, just like you would expect. Shooting it in that condition would be ridiculous. Quoted:
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Can you take a pic with the can mounted? It looks to me like it was bottoming out on the rail, which would then make it pretty obvious why you had so much lateral movement. There's a TON of M4-2000s, SDN-6s, etc. out there and it sounds like none of us have ever seen this before. Things can happen, but looking at how close your flash hider is to the rail, as well as the fact you used aftermarket shims, as well as what looks like a witness mark on the back of the silencer, makes me think that's what's happening. You clearly know more about M42ks than I do but it seems half the suppressors in the MK18 thread are M42ks (others being SOCOMs or NT4s) and nobody mentions this issue. They all have to shim the shit out of the muzzle device to clear the 9.55" RIS II? Shimming the mount is okay as long as it's done properly. It looks to me like he didn't shim his enough. M4-2000s, SDN-6s, etc. need to be tightened all the way down onto the mount. If they aren't, you'll notice a massive amount of play on the mount, just like you would expect. Shooting it in that condition would be ridiculous. All true. There is a tolerance stack up between the barrel, the rail, and the mount. Shims add to that. Sometimes shims are needed, sometimes they are not. Sounds like the OP didn't shim it enough and that the rail made contact with the can. |
| First of all the tighten it all the way down and back it off one tooth did not work for me. I could not stand the wobble and the POI shift was very annoying. I did the fix listed above with a hand file and I only had to remove a small amount of material from the brake. Now, it's very tight, no wobble and I have no POI shift that I can notice at 50 and 100 yards. I've fired 500 rounds through it so far and it has not loosened up at all. |
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