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Posted: 1/11/2008 3:14:35 PM EDT
| I have a bit of a varmint problem. I'd like eliminate the sound of gunfire to remove more than one at time. I am using an AR-15 with a 16" barrel (.223) with threads on the end if I take the muzzle break off. I'm wondering if there is a silencer building tutorial somewhere on the internet. I understand I'll have to get permission from ATF and pay a tax, etc. but I don't have enough money to pay for that AND a thousand dollar silencer. Any help would be great. |
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| Thanks for the welcome. If I used subsonic ammo it would be pretty quiet though wouldn't it. I'll probably be shooting from about 100 yards, too, maybe a little less. From what I've read about Utah state laws, it's legal to own, and build, sound suppressors but you have to pay a $200 tax and get it cleared through ATF. |
It won't be as quiet as you'd think it would be. For quiet you need an integrally suppressed .22 barrel on a 10/22. They are hollywood quiet.  But that'd be more than you wanna spend. Wish I could help ya more, but I'm really new to the legalities cans.
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The process for rolling your own suppressor is the same as making a SBR. You need to complete a Form 1 and pay the $200 tax. Once approved, you can start building. Washer and spacer is the cheap way to make one, if you have machining ability, K-baffles are popular. If you are looking to make your suppressor to be silent and not as a learning experience, you are better off buying one. You can get one for around $500. check out the suppressor forum and general class III forum for more info. eta: subsonic ammo wont cycle in an AR, so you'll have a single shot rifle which you will have to cycle manually. a .22lr conversion might be your best bet. That with a can will be quiet. |
| one last thing. Inquire in the Utah hometown forum about the legalities of hunting with a suppressor. In some states it is legal and in others, it isnt. Just because suppressors are legal doesnt mean that hunting with them is. |
hunting is different that removing a varmint problem though, still might need to clear it locally just to cover your butt |
Even muzzle cans are pretty close to hollywood quiet on a .22LR Around $265 for a Tac-65 and another $200 for the stamp. |
I'm not trying to get "hollywood quiet". I'm aware that it's pretty much unachievable. I'd consider a .22 conversion kit but that's more money I don't have to spend. How would I go about building this "washer spacer" suppressor? Or is there somewhere I could buy K-baffles? |
Sins money is tight ,,you are in trouble  normal 223 will be loud ( supersonic crack )but will cycle the action Reloading the 223 to subsonic = money for reloading ,,and it will not be much better than ,22 lr and it wont cycle the action Building a can ,,well unless you have aces to a lathe ,and depending on you design a welder ,,the materials for free = money ,,and lots of time Building a can ( assuming you have the skills) will not save you much ( if any),,if you care for you free time If its for the fun doing it yourself ,,thats another story I dont know how you job situation is ,,but if you can make some extra hours and use the money you make that way ,,that would properly be more economical,,and then the can will have a warranty  The cheapest can i think is about $350 ,,remember the tax for buying a can and making one is the same $200 |
Wow, I always thought the "washer spacer" suppressor was for pistol caliber only.  You can't buy K-baffles, or any other part of the suppressor for that matter because the ATF considers each part of the suppressor to be a suppressor. That's why anjan9 mentioned "machining ability" I know you're not getting what you wanted to hear, BUT unless you have MACHINING and WELDING skills along with a good bit of KNOWLEDGE on metallurgy, you're going to waste your time and money at best, and have a catashtrophic failure at worst. If you already had those three things, you wouldn't need to be asking the questions you're asking. What you're looking for is a cheap "quick and dirty" method to suppress your AR, and there's just not one. I am not trying to be rude, I'm just being honest. You have been given your answer by multiple team members. |
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Here’s an option for you. It’s relatively inexpensive, user serviceable and I’ve never heard a bad word about them from people that actually own them. You may be able to do a little better then retail if you shop around, so it won’t break the bank (hopefully). It’s not going to be the quietest 5.56 can but none of them are really quite anyway, since they all still sound like a gun shot. If it turns out that it’s still too loud for your application then chances are every other 5.56 suppressor would be as well. Since it’s user serviceable, if you do end up stepping down to a .22 LR then you can still use this can, although it’s going to be heavy hanging off the end of a 10/22. www.tacticalinc.com/tac16-ar15-m16br-556mm-suppressor-p-44.html |
A Gemtech Halo is around $600 (not including the tax) and will fit over the flash hider of your AR. |
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SOOH the question is ,,where do you want it to be quiet To the target  Or to your ears From you posting it seams that the target is what you dont want to spook If thats so the can with the highest pitch ,will be the one that sounds most quiet from the distance ,,not that it is going to matter much in you case the halo has been mentioned for $ 600 you can get the omni that also attach to the flashhider for 100 more But sins money is tight AAC has the (i think) ranger for $ 450 It is thread mounted ,but you did say that you barrel is threaded there will be others that will come with suggestions Dont rush it read,, around If you are in a hurry ,,then what you dealer has in stock would properly be the fastest If some of you friends are also wanting to buy,,do buy together that might save you a few bucks AAC has something about when a dealer order 3 cans at one time they get them cheaper Other company's might have something alike |
Come to think about it ,,is it you own land where you have this varmint problem  If so You could invite people that have a ar with a can to help you They would get a opportunity to do some varmint shooting ,,you could try to see if it really did help to get more than one at one time I mean sins the more than on at one time IS the reason for you to get the $$$$can It would be a shame if you bought it and it didnt help you 
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| It is legal in Utah to hunt varmints with a suppressed rifle, but always check with the local authorities first. Head over to the hometown forums and most of your question can be answered, there are a good number of us in Utah that shoot suppressors and most know much more than I do. |
The Halo vs the M42k is gonna be a tough comparison, I've heard both and they sounded about the same to me. But that's pretty subjective an you should hear them yourself. I've also heard the TAC-16 vs the Halo/M42k. The TAC-16 is pretty noticeably louder but it's pretty noticeably cheaper too.... Take that how you want. |
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Varmints out to 100 yds in Utah - and it sounds like you don't want to bother the neighbors with lots of noise. Sounds like either jackrabbits or coyotes near town. Don't know what part of Utah you're in, but there's a bounty on coyotes where I'm from (Millard County). I'd shoot at them on the edges of town - but it's a pretty rural town. As noted, you might consider suppressing a .22LR instead of your AR. They can be effective on rabbits out to 100 yds, but might be marginal for coyotes. Subsonic .223 in your AR is not going to be much more effective than a subsonic .22LR. You can shoot any common 40 gr. bullet out of a standard .22, or shoot the 60 gr. Aguila SSS round out of your AR (any idea what the twist on your barrel is?). You can get a .22 adapter for your AR, or a new .22 rifle for about the same money. If you're wanting the maximum quiet, get a bolt-action .22LR. Of course, you'll want to spend a little more on a decent scope. You would also have to either buy a threaded barre for your .22 or pay to have it done. If you want a semi-auto, I see that Impact Guns has a 10/22 - TAC65 package for $500. Make sure that includes a threaded barrel if you go that route. That would get you a complete package for around the price of the HALO alone. All you would lack is a scope (and you really want a better trigger on the 10/22). If you go with a chamber adapter on your AR, you have the option of getting a .22LR-only can (less money) or a .223/5.56 can (more money, but more versatile). As noted by others, in .223 there is the TAC-16. There is also the Gem-Tech M4-02 for around $500, the AAC Ranger for around $600, several models from HTG for $600, or a few models from YHM ranging from $460 to $535. Popular models in .22LR include the TAC65 and the GemTech Outback. If you're going to shoot a lot of .22LR, people like a can that you can disassemble to clean. In Utah, you can check with Impact Guns and FBMG. Both are stocking dealers. Some people have complained about Impact, but I've bought a couple of cans through them with no issues. I have no experience with FBMG, but they seem to have a decent reputation here. I don't know that he stocks anything, but Mark Layton in Orem will do transfers. I got a can through him not long ago. As others have noted, it is legal to hunt in UT with a silencer. I had an email from the state Division of Wildlife Resources some time back stating this. Of course, that email is long gone. I need to write a letter and get a hard-copy back from them about that. Just for CYA - you know. Interestingly, it is legal to hunt small game (or varmints like jackrabbits & coyotes) with a machine gun in UT as well. The suppressed Uzi with a .22 kit is my favorite jackrabbit gun  , but it does tend to get heavy after stomping through the sage brush for a few hours. 
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By machine gun do you mean a fully automatic? I've read in the state laws that it's legal to own a machine gun but I couldn't find a definition or directions on obtaining permits for one. I was talking to my dad (who works for the DWR) about it once and he wasn't sure of the Utah definition of "machine gun" either. |
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ETA, for the money, you can own AK47s, Mac 11s, M2 Heavy machine guns, M60s, M1919s, HK rifles, etc. It's all about the money. |
Yes - by machinegun I mean fully automatic. The process to get one is the same as to get a silencer. The state definition of a machine gun is pretty much the same as the federal definition. (It might be exactly the same as the Fed. Def. I looked it up while taking a law class at USU, but that's been a few years ago and I don't remember how to now). For other info, look at the state hunting proclamation. It has all of the relevant info. You will note that it is illegal to hunt big game with anything "capable of firing full auto" (or wording to that effect). However, there is no such prohibition against hunting small game with a machine gun. If it's not illegal - it's allowed. Same thing with using silencers: state law is silent on the matter. Therefore, it is not illegal. Back to your original question, if the range is short enough, you might try using Aguila Super Colibri ammo. It is a .22LR with no powder but with extra primer compound. It won't cycle a semi-auto, but it sounds not much louder than a suppressed .22LR. This would be one solution if you didn't want to go through the process to get a silencer. However, there are several pellet guns that are more powerful than the Colibri ammo. That might be a solution too. |
| Try a bolt action .22LR with a ridiculously long barrel. The extra space in the barrel will serve the same purpose as a suppressor in taming the gasses before they exit, just not do as good a job. A friend of mine has one with a massive 26" barrel that sounds like it's suppressed with some of the low power subsonics. |
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I don't know if sending supersonic bullets downrange and not scaring game is plausible, but if you really only care about the can being quiet, make a 1.625" outside diameter can 12 inches long, with 7-9 washer baffles with 21/64" bores. The fat cans with large volume lower the pitch of the sound and reduce signature to a bare minimum. Space the first washer 3 inches from the threads. Finish it out, and ream the front five inches to .350 and then the front two and a half inches to .375 It'll provide a combination of high flow, and massive volume that should bring you as close to silent as you can probably get with an Ar. Plug weld the baffles into the tube, and Make the tube thickness .062" initially, then turn the last six inches to .045" or so. With .085" thick machined or stamped washers, Weight should be in the arena of 34 ounces. |
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