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Posted: 11/28/2007 8:24:12 PM EDT
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Now that I have your attention I would like to alter the normal course of internet gunboard bashing to tell you a tale that is most pleasing. A friend of mine owns a Gemtech Outback II. I tested this suppressor back in April of 2007 http://www.silencerresearch.com/gemtech_outback_ii.htm After the review came out, I sent an email to Gemtech and asked them to read it. Phil Dater returned the email and said the numbers where higher than he usually got, but didn't complain and said it was probably just a bad suppressor testing day. He was a good sport about it. The silencer weighed around 3.65 ounces and supposedly had around 1000 rounds through it. The testing average was around 124dB. When I did the YHM Mite review, several people asked me to include a common silencer that most people had heard and the Outback II was suggested. I did the review and this particular Outback not only louder, but weighed about an ounce more. The testing average was around 128+!!! This was so unusual that I got another Outback and tested it on the same day and it averaged 122dB. The 122dB Outback weighed 3.65oz. I then tested a new Outback II that I ordered for a customer and it metered just below 120dB. I chalked it up to..."It's a sealed up suppressor, and it gets louder over time." This is what people get for buying a sealed up silencer! My friend has a good many threaded barrels including a SBR AR15. The Gemtech Outback II manual states that barrels should be threaded to 4/10". My friend was having a local "gunsmith" machinist threading all of his 22 barrels. The discussion came up that the AR15 barrel was threaded to 6/10". This would cause the barrel to get too close to the blast baffle of the silencer. I started to examine the barrels he had had threaded by this guy. They were all "over threaded." Some of them were threaded 7.5/10" deep. This causes the barrel/barrels to run right up against the blast baffle, potentially causing weakening/early destruction of the baffle, not to mention the gas jets by into the next baffle. This obviously causes the design of the silencer to fail and be loud. I told my friend that we needed to send it back to Gemtech and see if they would fix it. I also told him that if the problem was generated because of something HE did, Gemtech would have to charge him to fix it. That is only fair. The owner agreed. I shipped the silencer back to Gemtech and the very next week I get an email from Gemtech saying that they replaced not only the baffle stack but placed a Ti threaded rear insert too. They shipped the silencer back and charged the grand total sum of nothing. Zero dollars! This problem is obviously something that is a direct result of the poor barrel threading jobs, not a defect in workmanship on the manufacturers part. Gemtech went above and beyond the call in doing this for this fellow. He gets a brand new silencer with the upgraded thread mount for free when ultimately he is the one responsible for messing the silencer up. In an internet world of bitching, whining, complaining and using the internet to get free work/replacements out of silencer companies even when it’s the end users fault, this is a breath of fresh air. The owner of the silencer would never bother to post this so I though I would instead. |
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Different thread spec's play an important role in efficiency. I'm a little surprised you didn't take this into consideration when testing suppressors. I'd say this makes your data questionable. You might want to think about re-testing those cans shot on thread not up to the maker's spec's. |
Probably the same thing that most Blackside owners have, a loud (compared to many of the other 45 cans) poorly cycling suppressor. Gemtech would have to make something truly unique that is unreplicated by the competition for me to waste my money on another of their products. |
It's all over this site and others. I'm tired of re-hashing it when a simple search would find it. Besides, Kel is offering to find me a solution so until it progresses I won't say anything else regarding the matter. I will keep people updated as necessary. |
So you will buy a copy from some other manufacturer but not an original from Gemtech? Make perfect sense.  |
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Gemtech La Rue Milt Sparks I have wasted a lot of money coming to the knowledge that you get what you pay for. These three companies are at top of their respective fields in my opinion, and I will patronize them for all my needs for their products. I just wish I had been smarter sooner, but that's life. |
Beat me to it. The real test of customer service is whether they'd go to this length for free if there was no pay-off potential for them. In this case, "free" and "quick" ensured a favorable write-up or mention at least somewhere public that would be read by others. |
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The test data was not flawed, the test data was accurate and was recorded on camera in every test I have ever conducted. The silencer was damaged and I didn't know it. We figured it out months later. Without the test data, we would have never figured out what the problem was. Gemtech did NOT have to fix this silencer for free. They CHOSE to do it. I told them that the customer knew he was going to have to pay for the fixing because it was his fault, not Gemtechs. No one asked me to post this either, pick up the phone and call them if you want. I had hoped that this thread would not take a turn for the worst, but the usual bullshit had to happen. Gemtech did something that I thought was very nice and since almost every thread goes to shit here, I though this topic might be some relief. If you guys want to bash Gemtech start your own fucking thread and have at it. If you want to bash me or question my tests, start another thread. It seems that the thing to do these days is to post how shitty XYZ company is because they sold me a silencer and something isn’t right. If you would call the company up and work out a solution with them it would save a lot of time and trouble. NO silencer company is perfect and all of them make mistakes. |
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I am a bit confused as usualy, you spoke of outback IIs and then called it an Outback, the product returned with new baffles and a thread insert which sounds to me like the std. Outback to Outback II upgrade. So before if dealing with an Outback it had M baffles and comparing to an Outback II with K baffles I would not expect them to meter the same. If you can't handle the negativity then getting into the silencer business was the wrong way to go. |
You are speculating and dont know the facts. The silencer in question was tested with other barrels, not just his. It was tested on the Buckmark with Tactical Solutions barrel, a Ruger 10/22 with Tactical Innovations threaded barrel. These were correctly threaded. The P22 that was tested was tested with a Gemtech barrel adapter, so its not out of spec. This is one of the reason I test on multiple host firearms when I can. The results of the tests on my site are correct and repeatable. If you don't think so, you can come watch the tests in person. The only weapon that was used for testing the silencer in question (that was potentially out of spec) was the 10/22 with Clerke barrel that was threaded by his gunsmith. The "correct" Ruger 10/22 barrel and his Clerke barreled 10/22 metered within 3/10ths of a dB. I think the damage came from a great deal of shooting on his 10" SBR AR15 Ciener conversion with the 6/10" threaded barrel. This weapon was never tested for sound in that review. |
It was not an upgraded Outback I, it was always a Outback II. I can handle the "negativity" better than most and can dish it out pretty think when I want to. I just get sick of the bullshit and there are many others out there that are sick of it too. |
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I read this to understand the numbers in your initial test of the Outback II showed higher dBs than it should have due to use of the can on incorrect length (for a .22lr can) threads. If so, then the data was misleading. Is that not what happened? If I read it wrong, I apologize. And I am far from bashing Gemtech here. So, I hope your comments are not aimed at me. Gemtech has a good reputation for their customer service. It is a reputation well deserved, IMHO. Mark |
No one asked me to tell about this. There was no ensured favorable write-up involved. It happened and I though I would share it with people as its a nice thing to see rather than the usual bullshit that is slung all over the place around here. 
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You said the test data was flawed. This is NOT the case. The silencer got louder over time as shown in the YHM Mite review. It was so far off the April test that I got another Outback and it metered 122dB or there somewhere (keep in mind that all silencers will be somewhat different and a 1-2dB per day variation can occur in testing). The messed up Outback that Gemtech fixed metered close to this in April, so I did account for the difference. It would have been unfair for me to say that the damaged Outback was indicative of the entire line of Outbacks (even though I didn't know at the time it was damaged) . That is why I got ANOTHER one to verify with and tested in on the same day. What will a new Outback meter at? I am about to do a huge 22 silencer review with 10-15 silencers and the Outback getting tested will have a couple hundred rounds through it. My comments are NOT aimed at you Mark about trashing the thread. |
Okay, thanks. I just know the Outback II to be a good can and was thinking the data presented in the test report didn't reflect what the can really does suppression wise. Sorry for my misunderstanding.  Mark |
Huh... That's funny... Gemtech replaced a bilock mount on my FN SPR for FREE. Even payed for shipping and insurance both ways. Though I was NOT asked, I'm getting ready to post about it as soon as I can, too. How are those feet tasting right now?   -X ***Edited to add: I received the rifle back in about 8 days from the day it left my door.*** |
why did you have to have Gemtech to replace a bilock mount on your FN SPR ?? |
I was having issues with gas blowback. Had the original bilock mount on there been mounted with the tabs horizontal, like Gemtech says to do, I don't think I'd have had much of a problem. I had an old bilock mount on my rifle and Kel replaced it with a new one and had it installed/timed correctly. Kel has been nothing but helpful, courteous, and prompt in returning my IM's/emails and doing the actual work. I'm not affiliated in any way with Gemtech, but they are one of the few companies that I wish I were. -X |
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It's interesting to hear. I think even a 2DB loss in 1000rds is notable. It's nice to see Gemtech make customers happy. What was the time frame on the resolution of this? I'd like to compare it to AAC's general idea of a good time frame for problem resolution which seems to be a few months right now. |
It was about a week or so. |
That's one damn good reason to work with Gemtech. |
That is the benefit to making your own products as opposed to outsourcing. |
Gemtech instructs you to soak the Outback in WD-40 and then let it drain. Clean as a whistle! |
Most companies give that advice, how well it cleans lead is debatable. But it at least makes the person feel like they are doing something with a sealed can, and prevent them from taking action that could harm the can. |
You don't really think WD-40 has magical powers that dissolve this do you? I soaked my 9mm suppressor in WD-40 after about 800 rounds to see if it would remove the carbon and whatever else was in the can, after 2 days, I drained the can and could use the WD-40 as new. I don't think it removed anything, I won't waste another minute messing with it.   
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