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Posted: 9/10/2007 7:37:48 AM EDT
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sell me on it!! how much should i expect to pay? is it really worth the extra because you can tear it all down? is there a warranty. I think this will be my first can, i just need the hive mind go a head. thanks Jon |
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i can't speak for the prodigy, but i have a pilot and have no regrets on passing up the prodigy. I didn't see it worth the extra $$ when the pilot was just as good. (or damn near it). FWIW, I am VERY happy with my pilot and that's what i recommend when asked about the prodigy. ymmv, good luck on the decision |
They (AAC) are currently redesigning the baffle stack on the Prodigy. I would wait and get the new one. |
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The Prodigy that AAC is currently selling is a terrible can. Everybody who has heard mine thought it was very loud. I've shot it beside other AAC cans, SWR cans, an SDS integral, and TI cans -- in all cases it was the loudest .22 can anyone has heard. SWR and 1928A1 have known for months what AAC has only recently admitted -- the Prodigy is not "1 - 2 dB louder than a Pilot" as they continue to advertise, instead it can be over 6 dB louder which is close to twice as loud! It sucks, badly. Supposedly the original pre-production run of Prodigies did meter only 1 - 2 dB louder than a Pilot, but AAC changed tooling prior to subsequent full productions runs, and apparently as a result of poor quality control, all of the production Prodigies are really loud. AAC claims that they will recall the existing Prodigies and upgrade them, but Robert Silvers has admitted it will probably be "months and months" before that happens. Stay away from this can. Of course, if you buy a Prodigy and discover it's nothing like what was advertised, you just might get REALLY lucky and have AAC offer to swap your $600 can for a $450 can -- all at NO COST to you! What a deal. |
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A friend of mine bought one of the Prodigies when they first came out. The construction is nice but the performance was pretty disappointing. We shot it next to an Outback2, YHM, Tac52, and Pilot and it was louder than all of them. As has also been mentioned in other threads if you grab hold of the tube and twist the baffle core unscrews from the opposite end cap and tube, instead of the whole suppressor unscrewing from the gun (you have to hold the rear knurled section to unscrew the can from the host weapon). Overall I like the concept of the Prodigy, the materials, and workmanship but it needs a redesign to fix the performance. I don't know if AAC intends to address how the core attaches to the tube so that may just be something you have to live with (if you buy one). As an alternative, YHM released Mark White's slant monolithic baffle can called the mite. In my opinion it is a lower cost alternative to the prodigy plus the Mite is full-auto rated. I don't know what the Mite sound like yet so it too may not be as quiet as other more traditional .22 rimfire suppressors. |
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I have one, and I don't believe it's as bad as some lead on. It depends on the ammo, and what length barrel you have. With subsonic ammo, mine is just as quiet as most other suppressors, once you get past the FRP. On my dedicated .22 AR15, it is quiet with subsonics. Silencerresearch tests show a FRP upwards of 133db (can't remember exactly off the top of my head). No way mine is anywhere near that on a rifle. Using standard velocity and high velocity on a pistol, it is a bit louder on FRP than another can I have. After that, the difference is small enough, that if you were shooting them at different times, you wouldn't notice the difference. Maybe I got one of the good ones, like the prototype. |
If you can hold out till next week, Saturday the AAC Prodigy will go head to head with the YHM Mite. The cans are similar in design so the comparison will be nice to have. I will post here when the review is available. |
any chance you have a typical sealed can to include as sort of a control? |
Yep. Decibels aren't measured in a linear fashion, each increase of 3dB is double. So doubling it once (3dB) gives you a 2X increase, then doubling that gives you more than a 4X increase from the original volume. |
I could arrange to have an Outback II handy. I really don't want to compare sealed up cans with unsealed up cans till later on when I do a "Mega 22 Can Shootout." The test this Saturday will be mostly about comparing two VERY similar silencers. |
I will let PHD handle this in the am. 
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About dB Increase in Noise Level (dBA) Human Perception 0 to 2 ....................................Not usually noticeable 3 ...........................................Just noticeable 6........................................... Clearly noticeable 10......................................... Twice as loud 20......................................... Four times as loud |
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What they said. Decibels measure sound pressure levels, not human hearing perception. So while 6 dB does represent a quadrupling of sound pressure, that does not corresponding to a quadrupling in perceived loudness. But let's not overlook this fact: the Prodigy is loud and 6 dB is a lot.
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As somebody that just bought an Outback II, I'd love to see that  I am curious about the Mite though, those look nice. I'm thinking about one if I'm able to get a FA. |
I just thought adding one sealed can on the same day, same conditions, same gun, would give an interesting comparison. |
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I will second the request for adding in the Outback II as a basemark, since many folks are experienced with hearing sealed cans. And because I'm considering shelling out some $$$ today for a Mite for my LM7, and I'm too old and impatient to wait for the mega shootout. I may not live that long. 
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Also agree it would be very instructive and nice to have an Outback II tested alongside the Mite and Prodigy. Many folks have heard the Outback II and it would give us a standard of comparison. I shot my Mite (still in transfer at my C3's place) alongside my Outback II and thought the Mite had a louder FRP and was a little louder on most of the other shots -- it would be interesting to see what the meter says. Dave |
+1 Outback II, or a Pilot would be really great. I have a pilot and heard a mite at the last DFW shoot but the shoot was loud and I really couldn't tell much. I would love to see either the OutbackII or the Pilot put in there for kicks. (1928A1, btw: I think Jim is making motel reservations today or tomorrow) |
Treetop is correct. 3 dB is a doubling of the sound pressure level, 6 dB is a quadrupling. In the case of sound levels, we are dealing with power functions where the calculation for dB is dB = 10*log(P1/P2) Unfortunately, hearing is not quite so simple, as the ear does not hear in a linear fashion. Perceived doubling of the "loudness" of a sound is close to 10 dB. It is not the most intuitive concept. Phil... |
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Not all the Prodigy cans that were released were louder than intended. Mine is one of the "good" ones. I shoot mine next to a Mite this past weekend and to the ear they were very close. With some ammo the Prodigy sounded slighty better with a deeper tone. With other ammo the Mite sounded a little better. Both the Mite and the Prodigy sounded close but a little louder than a Tactical Solutions Cascade, which sounds to me like a Pilot, Outback II, etc. Host weapons we two identical Tactical Solutions 1911 conversions. I put just under 300 rounds through the Mite and cannot get it apart. My fault probably since I did not apply any extra anti-seize. The Mite instructions say to use anti-seize and the can came from the factory with anti-seize on the stack so I assumed (bad on me!) that there was enough on the core. Apparently there wasn't. However, during the same test the Prodigy had zero anti-seize on the core and came apart easily. Ammo was mostly Winchester Dynapoints with a few Remington subsonics. Both cans were allowed to cool before taking them apart. Any local guys are welcome to come try the same test and hear both cans. Folks know I don't just give my impression. We frequently take people to the range to get their impressions too. As a dealer, I understand people will take what I say with a grain of salt. And they should! But ask around. Many of the local GA guys can tell you what these cans sound like based on their personal experiences. For the "loud" Prodigies AAC is offering a free upgraded baffle stack replacement when the changes are made (should be soon). Is the Prodigy (or Mite) worth it? Maybe. Only the user can decide. Some people would have you believe that if you cannot take a .22 can apart for cleaning that the can isn't worth buying. I think people should decide what product makes the most sense to them and that fits there needs. A take-apart can isn't one that allows you to take it apart for cleaning. It REQUIRES you to take it apart. If you do not perform proper periodic maintenance, the can will eventually not come apart or you will damage it taking it apart. For some people a sealed can from a quality company makes sense. These "quality companies" will clean a filled can for free or a nominal charge. Companies I would consider for sealed cans are AAC, SWR, Tactical Solutions and Gemtech. There might be others out there, but I have personal experience with these and would not hesitate to buy a sealed can from any of them. I have over 20K rounds through a Pilot with very little cleaning. It weighs 1.1 oz heavier than a new can and still sounds the same as a new one. How long will it take a can to fill up? Depends on usage, ammo, how you clean it, etc. It is like asking how long will am AR barrel last. Hope this helps. Mark |
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"I have over 20K rounds through a Pilot with very little cleaning. It weighs 1.1 oz heavier than a new can and still sounds the same as a new one. How long will it take a can to fill up? Depends on usage, ammo, how you clean it, etc. It is like asking how long will am AR barrel last." That's really interesting... What ammo do you fire, and how have you cleaned that? That seems a lot better than most results I've heard. |
i can't answer for his ammo- though he recommended me to use CCI Standard Velocity with my pilot when i bought it from him- but Mark's prescribed cleaning methods are: PVC Pipe, cap one end permanently, put a screw top on the other. Fill with Lacquer Thinner and submerge the can. leave for a few days then blow dry / empty the pvc pipe. I've only got a few hundred through my pilot though... but it's still squeaky clean and quiet!!! |
Gemtech Outback II will be tested as a reference. Ask and you shall receive.
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" but it's still squeaky clean and quiet!!!" 1.1 ounces at 20K is phenomenal. I just had a brand new can I was testing and I could see some crap after 10 rounds (the blast baffle was black from shiny aluminum in the white.) That was Remington subsonic, so I guess you must be on to something. I have to order up some CCI. I think I'll use your cleaning procedure too. Can't argue with those results. |
give bookhound all the credit on that one. I bought a can from his and Allen-PSI's company- Polite Society Inc- and that's what they told me to do. I've followed the directions and had no issues. Mark (book) has put 20k though his, mine only has about 1000 down the pipe eta: make sure you dump the lacquer thinner out after cleaning... it'll eat through the plastic PVC over a few weeks if you don't. ask me how i know |
Shooting copper washed bullets does NOTHING to prevent lead mist in 22LR. Remington subsonics are some of the poorest performing 22LR I have ever used. The ballistics suck and accuracy is very poor. If you are shooting 22LR, buy CCI if you want consistency and accuracy. 22LR ammo is filthy by nature, and ammo choice will do little if anything to prevent lead/carbon buildup in 22LR silencers  |
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I have shot a take apart prodigy right next to a warlock. Both on Walther P22's, same ammo, same day and alternating the shots. The Warlock was slightly quieter (my ears only) and had a lower frequency/pitch. The Prodigy was slightly louder, you wouldn't be able to tell if you did not have a reference. It also had a higher pitch/frequency. Not the OMG my ears are ringing some have described. The Prodigy was a demo that was recently delivered to the dealer and my NIB warlock. Would I buy a prodigy? Possibly, but the extra $$$ just to take it apart when there are other comparable silencers out there for less, no. I'm not sure the Prodigy has enough "cool factor" for me to justify the extra $2-300 for it. If the price point were market....I would. |
You post a picture of a projectile trailing nasty powder and possible lead in support of your theory/opinion that copper washed bullets don't help reduce lead mist but don't even have a clue what bullet is in the picture??? That kinda makes the picture irrelevant, don't ya think? Some copper washed bullets still have an exposed lead base. Some don't. Your experience may be different from mine, but I do believe projectiles with some or partial plating do reduce lead buildup in cans. That has been my experience. My experience is also that use significantly influences buildup amounts. Bumpfiring a 10/22 through a few 30-round mags will result in more lead buildup than shooting the same rifle at a slower cycle rate (and actually taking time to aim and hit things! LOL). The heat is what is melting the lead. John, do you know if the copper washed CCIs have an open base or not? I can't remember. A neat test would be to take two brand new cans, DIFFERENT ammo (one gets copper washed, other lead), same (similar) host weapons and shoot a couple thousand rounds through them. Weigh them and possibly cut the cans open to inspect. Mark edit to correct ammo suggestion in my test of two cans. |
The picture is not irrelevant. It shows the fact that 22LR ammo is filthy no matter what 22LR ammo you chose. Copper washed or lead, the baffles will fill up with lead mist and carbon deposits. This is an undisputable fact in 22LR silencers. I have pulled bullets and looked, and IIRC, the Minimags are NOT copper coated on the base. That is where most of the heat is generally located. I asked CCI to produce total metal jacket ammo for the 22LR like the 22Mag has. They said accuracy would be awful because of the lands and grooves in 22LR are not set up for it. I don't really know, but it would be nice to have total metal jacket rounds, as it would slow down the lead buildup a lot. There may be some evidence that leading is reduced with copper washed ammo, but in my experience it's really an insignificant difference. I have shot close to 65000 rounds of 22LR in the past few years (almost 15000 this year so far) of mixed ammo. I shoot some 22LR pistol cans with nothing but CCI Subs or Std Velocity and those lead up at about the same rate as when I used CCI Minimags exclusively. I think your test idea would be fine, but I am fairly certain I already know the answer based on passed experience. Oh…I wouldn’t have to cut them open to see a difference, as all of my personal 22LR silencers are fully disassembleable.
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How about a Stratus/ Quest? The Stratus I testfired sounded comparable to an Outback. |
All in good time. I don't have any of Craig's new stuff yet. The forthcoming test is really trying to compare two similar silencers. I am going to shoot the Outback II as many people have already heard that silencer and want to compare. Can't do em all in one day! Also Saturday, I will be doing a comparison between the Ruger Pac Lite and the Buckmark Trail Lite systems from Tactical Solutions. The Pac Lite will also get a seperate product review. So that's basically three new reviews going to be done this weekend. |
Maybe that'd be a good test for you to do if you get bored with the sound meter tests. 
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