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Posted: 12/29/2001 2:08:27 PM EDT
Does anyone here know much about the rifle? Will the polymer lower be durable enough? Think it will be as reliable as the original?
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 7:01:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 8:01:53 PM EDT
Hey Troy, elaberate a little. I'm very interested in this new 180B. Still haven't seen one at a gun show. Please excuse the spelling.
Link Posted: 12/29/2001 8:21:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/30/2001 7:57:35 AM EDT
What is the history behind the AR-18/180? Where did they fit in with the AR series? What are the differences between them?
Link Posted: 12/30/2001 9:35:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By libertyof76:
What is the history behind the AR-18/180? Where did they fit in with the AR series? What are the differences between them?


The history of ArmaLite is long and in my opinion technologically brilliant.

First "AR" stands for ArmaLite - not "assault rifle" - "automatic rifle" etc.
Still torques the jaws of Colt's management to this day.

ArmaLite, then a division of Fairchild Engine and Airplane Company, invented the AR-10 (.308 for simplicity)in about 1956. Eugene Stoner was credited as the inventor, although work had already started before his arrival, and a couple of world-class designers.

Generally the AR-10 is accepted as the first modern battlefield rifle. (Looks like a BIG AR-15)

After the AR-10 ArmaLite, Stoner and team moved to the .223 (for simplicity)- actually first the .222 as I recall - because the Army was looking into Small-Caliber-High-Velocity (SCHV) weapons.
The outcome was the AR-15. Both Fairchild and ArmaLite didn't have the money to produce the AR-15 so the patents were sold to Colts'. Stoner and his group left ArmaLite and went to Colts' along with the patents.

Colt's was so broke I think they may have stiffed ArmaLite out of part of the $75,000 up-front fee. Anyway Colt's and Stoner continued the design, got the military contracts, the Army re-designated the AR-15 the M16 and as the say the rest is history.

ArmaLite later designed the AR-18 as a possible competitor to the M16. Obviously that didn't happen and is probably a book unto itself as to why.

The AR-180 was the last in "Old ArmaLite" companies line of AR's and is simply the semi-auto companion to the AR-180.

The ArmaLite company of today, headed by Mark Westrom, continues ArmaLite's storied history of innovation and excellence.
Link Posted: 12/30/2001 9:51:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:

.. the AR18 folding stock was always a POS and broke easily.

-Troy


Troy,
I seek out and read most of your posts as I find them succinct, informative and accurate.

However as to the folding-stock on the AR-18/180 that it "......was always as a POS and broke easily."

I'll limit my response to my own experience. At present I only own four AR-180's and one AR-18. Prior to my divorce in April this year I owned twenty-six AR-180's and have owned certainly more than fifty over just the last three years.

I have never bought an AR-180 with a broken stock and have never had one break.

Just my personal experience.
Link Posted: 12/30/2001 1:36:44 PM EDT
Does anyone know if the AR-180B is really, actually shipping ??
Link Posted: 12/30/2001 8:45:54 PM EDT
I've had one on order since June. Still waiting patiently.
Link Posted: 12/30/2001 9:40:53 PM EDT
I wonder if they will make improved pre ban folding stocks now.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 4:59:01 AM EDT

Prior to my divorce in April this year I owned twenty-six AR-180's and have owned certainly more than fifty over just the last three years.

Where did you wind up selling all of these? Here we live in the same town and I miss out. I'm going to go sit in a corner and sulk now.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 5:18:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By libertyof76:
What is the history behind the AR-18/180? Where did they fit in with the AR series? What are the differences between them?

The AR18 is the full auto version of the 180.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 5:23:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:
Although these are not pre-ban, and can't have a flash suppressor or folding stock, the AR18 folding stock was always a POS and broke easily. On the originals, the overinsertion "bump" had to be removed and a slot cut into the other side of the mag for the "see-saw" mag catch lever. No more!

I'm hoping Armalite will make some pre-ban uppers, or at least barrels, available to those with original AR180s...

-Troy

I have one each of the originals, 1 Sterling, 1 Howa, and 1 Costa Mesa. None of the stocks are broken and have never come close.

Modified AR15 mags with the bump just slightly pressed in don't see saw. I've done some following the instructions at the AR180 board and they don't rock at all.

You get my vote on the preban barrels for the originals.
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 5:31:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jim_Dandy:

Prior to my divorce in April this year I owned twenty-six AR-180's and have owned certainly more than fifty over just the last three years.

Where did you wind up selling all of these? Here we live in the same town and I miss out. I'm going to go sit in a corner and sulk now.


Don't play shy !
You bought (8) of em .
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 5:33:54 AM EDT
Unless you have me confused with someone else, I didn't, Mr. Check Valve (one way).
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 5:38:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Armed_Scientist:
I wonder if they will make improved pre ban folding stocks now.


Poly-Armed_Technician,
how many AR-180/18's with a broken stock do you have ??
Maybe I can get you some help.

You sayers of nay might take just a moment to laud the design that made folding stock possible.
(On to Hati for you!)
Link Posted: 12/31/2001 5:46:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG

You get my vote on the preban barrels for the originals.


L.G.,
I did some trading earier this year with a Class 2 who's into the AR-18/180's and he's building me an upper, flattop, 16" barrel including suppressor.
(1:9 twist)Because I'll never find an AR-18S, I had him put a pistol grip on this upper.
Should have it in about two weeks and will try to post some pictures.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 1:31:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/1/2002 1:32:15 PM EDT by Troy]
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 4:45:40 PM EDT
OK OK just because everyone seems hung up about this, I bought a Sterling that had the top "ear" on the back of the receiver for the lockup of the folding stock pin broken. I had it welded and Parked. Let's face it, the two ears sit out there just waiting to be bent when the stock is folded, and if you were to engage in anything as silly as bayonet training with the stock extended the stock would be toast PDQ. Although I haven't done much bayonet training lately, I leave my stock extended just about all the time.

Stock aside, it still is a very cool rifle.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 7:05:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Armed_Scientist:
I wonder if they will make improved pre ban folding stocks now.


Folding stocks, improved or otherwise, will not be made.
Link Posted: 1/1/2002 7:08:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:
I'm hoping Armalite will make some pre-ban uppers, or at least barrels, available to those with original AR180s...

-Troy


Your "hoping" (and mine) is going to happen.
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 1:00:00 AM EDT
I owned a Sterling and never shot it much. It didn't break, but I was always leary about that stock design. A buddy of mine that has thousands of rounds through his has his stock hinge cracked. I've seen one other at a gunshow that was cracked as well. While the logical reply is you shouldn't trash your rifle, I am of the opinion that you shouldn't have to worry about it. I don't know how much use all those AR-180s get from you guys, but the two high mileage ones I've seen both had cracked stock hinges.

Ross
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 5:00:59 AM EDT
Here is an interesting point, the new uppers (although not preban in design) will fit on the preban lowers.
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 11:25:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Listen2:
Here is an interesting point, the new uppers (although not preban in design) will fit on the preban lowers.


I think at first maybe the old guide rods have to be used and modified slightly..
Not certain though.

Link Posted: 1/2/2002 3:01:22 PM EDT
Maybe the Armalite folks are back on duty and can explain the upper situation ??
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 3:12:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 4:31:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By libertyof76:
What is the history behind the AR-18/180? Where did they fit in with the AR series? What are the differences between them?



I heard the primary reason for development of the AR18 was because it was relatively cheap to manufacture. Unlike the AR15/M16, the AR18 receivers were stamped steel not forged aluminum, which is not only less expensive, but also easier to manufacture. I seem to recall something about using a less expensive rifle to get other NATO nations to adopt the 5.56mm round. 5subslr5's story seems to make pretty good sense though.
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 7:35:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2002 7:37:37 PM EDT
Finally after much cursing and hairpulling I was able to do the pic thing. The above shows the "ears" on the 18/180 stock. Contrary to my previous post they are on the stock, the pins that fit into the holes in the ears are on the back of the receiver.

Of course the new postban AR180s won't have to worry about ears and folding stocks . . .
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 5:38:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By slt223:

Originally Posted By libertyof76:
What is the history behind the AR-18/180? Where did they fit in with the AR series? What are the differences between them?



I heard the primary reason for development of the AR18 was because it was relatively cheap to manufacture. Unlike the AR15/M16, the AR18 receivers were stamped steel not forged aluminum, which is not only less expensive, but also easier to manufacture. I seem to recall something about using a less expensive rifle to get other NATO nations to adopt the 5.56mm round. 5subslr5's story seems to make pretty good sense though.



Your addition to the story is also correct.
Stamped being less expensive than forged. Also the idea was to have a relatively simple rifle that third-world countries were at least capable of assembling.
Of course the AR-18/180 appeared at the height of the cold war and either the US would give the M16 to the countries or the Soviets would give them AK-47's.
When not adopted as an alternative to the M16 the AR-18 really had no market.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 6:25:22 AM EDT
The 2 '180's I owned needed a machine shop to rebuild, weld and repair the folding stock assembly stampings. I suppose it is hit or miss on the originals if they break.

I don't think it would be a mistake to say the AR-180 approaches the AK in terms of sheer reliablilty. I for one have never experienced a jam or malfunction of any kind with either rifle.

Kudos to Armalite for bringing this great design back from the dead and at a reasonable price.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 6:57:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Chairborne_Ranger:
The above shows the "ears"....


C. Ranger,
truly those are some exquisite "ears."
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 7:20:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JSL5150:

Kudos to Armalite for bringing this great design back from the dead and at a reasonable price.


ArmaLite posted several proposed rifles on their site.
By far the most requested rifle was the return of the AR-180.

I finally remembered the name of the designer of the AR-18/180..."Art Hill."
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 7:56:45 AM EDT
I think that's Art Miller and Jim Sullivan who did the bulk of the work on the AR18. Now which one was responsible for the "ears" . . . ?
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 8:28:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2002 8:35:37 AM EDT by 5subslr5]

Originally Posted By Chairborne_Ranger:
I think that's Art Miller and Jim Sullivan who did the bulk of the work on the AR18. Now which one was responsible for the "ears" . . . ?


Since Jim Sullivan was gone from ArmaLite by the time the AR-18 was designed the "Ears-of-the-Year" award goes to.....Art Miller !!
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 7:07:50 PM EDT
"Arthur Miller, Charles Dorchester and George Sullivan" according to a "reliable authority."

I just want to know if Arthur did his work before or after "Death of a Salesman." Was he inspired to fine design work by boinking Marilyn Monroe?

Inquiring minds want to know . . .
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 7:24:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Chairborne_Ranger:
"Arthur Miller, Charles Dorchester and George Sullivan" according to a "reliable authority."

I just want to know if Arthur did his work before or after "Death of a Salesman." Was he inspired to fine design work by boinking Marilyn Monroe?

Inquiring minds want to know . . .


Interesting that you would ask that question !

There is some evidence of Arthur boinking and designing simultaneously. Marilyn was truly an inspiration !

I believe H. George Sullivan was gone by the time the AR-18/180 was designed. He was either still with Stoner at Colts' or both he and Stoner had departed Colts' and were at Cadillac-Gauge working on the Stoner 63.

Of much less interest than Marilyn is H. George Sullivan's design of the Mini-14. The Mini-14 sales have exceeded one million units.

Link Posted: 1/6/2002 7:17:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Chairborne_Ranger:
I think that's Art Miller and Jim Sullivan who did the bulk of the work on the AR18. Now which one was responsible for the "ears" . . . ?


At least the 180B be earless !!
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 12:57:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmaLite:
We're back.

Yes, the new uppers will go on the lowers, but you have to make a little mod to your guide rails, or use the coming A4 (flattop) upper


Aren't they all flattops and can't you just use the original guide rods to put it on an original lower?
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 1:22:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By ArmaLite:
We're back.

Yes, the new uppers will go on the lowers, but you have to make a little mod to your guide rails, or use the coming A4 (flattop) upper


Aren't they all flattops and can't you just use the original guide rods to put it on an original lower?


L.G.,
the first 180B's will have the original flange(?) to mount the old scopes/scope mounts.
The true flattop comes later.
I know a slight modification to the AR-180 guide rods is necessary to use an AR-180 lower with an AR-180B upper.

What I don't know is what the slight modification consists of.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 3:26:37 PM EDT
Hey Armalite,

When are these babies shipping???

-elliott
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 4:22:53 PM EDT
I think I would rather have an AR with a piston style gas system, and some other minor modifications, built on a Cavalry Arms style lower. That would fit between AR and AK in the scheme of things.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 4:29:34 PM EDT
Rainier, isn't that exactly what the AR180B is?
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 5:53:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Chairborne_Ranger:
Rainier, isn't that exactly what the AR180B is?

(sarcasm mode on) Oh no, mr. Ranger, it isn't forged, blah, blah, blah. (sarcasm mode off). Some people can't get past the stamped sheet metal. Oh well, more 180B's for us. If someone doesn't want one, that's okay, why must they make negative remarks about the product that they know nothing of?
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 6:00:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rainier:
I think I would rather have an AR with a piston style gas system, and some other minor modifications, built on a Cavalry Arms style lower. That would fit between AR and AK in the scheme of things.


Actually a 1979 Bushmaster might fit between an AR and an AK.

But thanks for stopping by the 180B thread and telling us what you'd rather have.

Link Posted: 1/7/2002 5:47:47 AM EDT
i personally am holding out for them to do a run in the armalite green (or better yet the sudaneesee brown)...i also would feel better with a chrome lined bore and chamber. sloth
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 12:50:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sloth:
i personally am holding out for them to do a run in the armalite green (or better yet the sudaneesee brown)...i also would feel better with a chrome lined bore and chamber. sloth


This rifle was never made in Green or brown. Don't think the 180B will be either.

I do believe that late this year several different uppers/barrels will be available.

Link Posted: 1/7/2002 6:25:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 5subslr5:

Originally Posted By Rainier:
I think I would rather have an AR with a piston style gas system, and some other minor modifications, built on a Cavalry Arms style lower. That would fit between AR and AK in the scheme of things.


Actually a 1979 Bushmaster might fit between an AR and an AK.

But thanks for stopping by the 180B thread and telling us what you'd rather have.




Your welcome. Actually, I'm concerned about the accuracy more than anything, it having a stamped steel receiver and all. Plus it can't be nearly as versatile as the AR. I'll get an AR first.
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 7:05:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rainier:]Your welcome. Actually, I'm concerned about the accuracy more than anything, it having a stamped steel receiver and all. Plus it can't be nearly as versatile as the AR. I'll get an AR first.
Just can't get past the stamped steel can you? Snob. Read the accuracy report from the cruffler.com review.

Please tell us how it can't be as versatile as an AR, which it is, by the way. AR180B.
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 7:16:18 PM EDT
An AR can be anything with the cahange of an upper. Highpower, 3-gun, varmint, combat, 6.5 inch entry gun. As Glen Zediker says, destination is dollar dependent. I'll check out the accuracy report, see what it says. I'll try to keep an open mind.
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 7:24:52 PM EDT
I just read the accuracy report, and I must say that I am impressed. While a high priced AR-15 is more accurate, thats all you need. Still, it isn't as versatile as the AR-15.
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