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Posted: 11/22/2001 6:03:41 PM EDT
Are Auto ordinance(aka Thompson/Kahr arms) 1911a1's any good? they make a copy of the WWII issue, with the lanyard loop, roll stamp etc. Debating between them and springfield. I like the GI style of the Auto ordinance.
Thanks,
AIRBORNE
Link Posted: 11/22/2001 6:47:55 PM EDT
Springfield Armory makes a mil-spec pistol too. It's the one I ended up getting as they and Kimber get top comments on quality.
Link Posted: 11/22/2001 7:40:13 PM EDT
I have heard they are making great strides in quality control of their M1911A1 at Kahr Arms. If you buy, get a new one, the old Auto Ordinance were not so good I'm also told.
Link Posted: 11/22/2001 7:44:51 PM EDT
The old "GI style" 1911 is good, but there are reasons people have made changes. Most notable are the hammer, grip safety, slide lock/safety, and rear sight. Here's why...

The hammer is replaced with a target hammer for really two reasons: To fit WITHIN a beavertail grip safety (more on that next) and to keep you from catching the hammer on clothes, objects, etc. I mean REALLY, you don't cock a 1911 hammer with your fingers...you rack the slide back to do so.

The reason the beavetail safety replaces the original grip safety is because you want a VERY HIGH grip on the gun and you don't want your tender skin (between the thumb and forefinger) to get pinched between the hammer and safety. Believe me, it hurts. Those of you who've done a lot of Browning Hi-Power shooting can attest. Also, most current beavertail grip safeties copy Ed Brown's "Memory Groove" with provides a bit more extension for a crisper safety.

The GI slide lock/safety is extended for comfort and for ease of operation. Since the proper technique for shooting a 1911 is to have your shooting thumb ride on top of the safety AT ALL TIMES, it is much more comfortable to have an extended thumb safety.

Lastly, the original rear fixed blade sight usually doesn't provide a good sight picture for shooting. Many people replace the rear with a fixed low-mount/snag-free sight like a Novak. The notch in the sight is deeper and wider so that you see more of the front sight.

Springfield makes a fine 1911. Can't go wrong with either the Mil Spec GI gun, or their Mil Spec "Loaded" 1911. Personally, I'd spend the extra $50 for the loaded version.

Link Posted: 11/23/2001 4:54:45 AM EDT
Although I appreciate and understand the upgades to the pistols, I really want one like I had when I was in the army.
Thanks though!
AIRBORNE!!
Link Posted: 11/23/2001 7:17:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By crumabn:
Although I appreciate and understand the upgades to the pistols, I really want one like I had when I was in the army.
Thanks though!
AIRBORNE!!


Then you should get a WWII 1911, Colt or Remington Rand, US&S, etc. I have a couple and love em, don't shoot em very much though.


Link Posted: 11/23/2001 7:41:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tailgate:
Since the proper technique for shooting a 1911 is to have your shooting thumb ride on top of the safety AT ALL TIMES, it is much more comfortable to have an extended thumb safety.



You mean have your thumb sticking straight up? Since when? I've heard people like to do that, but your thumb gets chewed up by the slide serrations. I keep my thumb down and have absolutely no difficulty hitting target. Proper technique? Whatever puts your rounds in the X ring.
Link Posted: 11/23/2001 10:35:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15FENCER:

Originally Posted By Tailgate:
Since the proper technique for shooting a 1911 is to have your shooting thumb ride on top of the safety AT ALL TIMES, it is much more comfortable to have an extended thumb safety.



You mean have your thumb sticking straight up? Since when? I've heard people like to do that, but your thumb gets chewed up by the slide serrations. I keep my thumb down and have absolutely no difficulty hitting target. Proper technique? Whatever puts your rounds in the X ring.



I think Tailgate is talking about riding the thumb on the safety pointing forward,not up, the accepted method for the 1911. I dont use the extended myself, but can see where it would be more comfortable for some. If your thumb gets chewed up by the slide you are doing it wrong. If you are shooting fast/ under stress/whatever underneath the safety is not a good place for your thumb to be.
Link Posted: 11/23/2001 10:44:12 AM EDT
Why is it not good to have the thumb under the safety? Does it cause an unsafe condition? or something else?

Who reccomends you put your thumb on top of the safety? and why?

Just wanting to know.
Thanks
Link Posted: 11/23/2001 11:09:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Burned:
Why is it not good to have the thumb under the safety? Does it cause an unsafe condition? or something else?



It causes the ultimate unsafe condition: BG draws on you, you draw and fire, then the recoil and your bad hand position(low on the gun)cause you to move the safety upwards. It may never happen while target shooting, but out of the holster under pressure and thumb under the safety are a bad combination.


Who reccomends you put your thumb on top of the safety? and why?

Just wanting to know.
Thanks



Well, the Colonel, for one. For the above reasons and also it's just a better position to have your hand in.
Link Posted: 11/23/2001 12:57:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/23/2001 12:50:42 PM EDT by Nick1950]
crumabn - since you asked about the Auto Oridinance I can tell you that, while I have not had experience with it, Kahr makes an excellent product. The Kahr pistols are tight, solid and shoot good. I would expect the same from the Auto Ordinance side.
It is my understanding from talking to one of their reps and reading some articles that Kahr is using the same equipment to produce the model 1911. CNC equipment has been a real boost to the firearms industry. It is hard to beat the kind of quality that comes from this type of manufacturing.
This by the way is an improved version of the 1911 as they make a few modifications such as lowering the ejection port.

I forgot to add I'm looking to buy one myself.
Link Posted: 11/23/2001 2:41:21 PM EDT
I will clarify about the thumb position, but some other members HAVE stated correctly...

The thumb is not in the UP position, but pointing forward. However, IT IS ON TOP of the safety, not under it for the very reason Rabbit mentioned...recoil causing you to engage the safety. Believe me when I say that IT WILL HAPPEN, and you won't know it. You tap, rack...ARRRGGGGH, won't rack!! Duh, I have the safety on. Target shooting usually won't encounter this. Combat training...will happen. Ask Col. Jeff Cooper or Clint Smith...they've seen it daily for years.

As for the thumb getting "chewed up by the slide serrations" by using this technique...completely false. Believe it or not you won't even feel it because MOST of the time your thumb won't touch it. Only when you shoot 300-400 rounds a day in combat simulation for several days will you start to feel it. At Thunder Ranch I had to start wearing tape on my thumb on the 3rd day. Then again, the shooting was definitely different than your normal "Trip to the Range."

Thanks Rabbit for clearing up the questions. It's nice to see others understand what I am trying to explain! HE HE HE
Link Posted: 11/23/2001 3:10:30 PM EDT
The Colt 1991A1 is the most GI looking 1911 on the market, it has a basic Parkerized finish and the correct vertical cocking serrations. The problem is that they come with a plastic trigger and mainspring housing. These parts are easily changed out. If you get a Videcki short steel trigger, a Wilson arched mainspring housing, and a set of walnut (or original brown plastic) grips, this gun will look very close to a WW2 issue .45
Link Posted: 11/23/2001 3:56:54 PM EDT
Kahr metal parts do not meet milspec for hardness or dimensions.
Link Posted: 11/23/2001 4:12:53 PM EDT
I see what you guys are saying. I got my 1911 out and I can't do it.

How is the grip safety supposed to be pressed in if the meaty part of your palm right below your thumb comes back off the grip safety when I put my thumb over the safety?
Plus it feels unnatural and I dont have a solid grip on the gun.


Link Posted: 11/23/2001 10:59:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Burned:
I see what you guys are saying. I got my 1911 out and I can't do it.

How is the grip safety supposed to be pressed in if the meaty part of your palm right below your thumb comes back off the grip safety when I put my thumb over the safety?
Plus it feels unnatural and I dont have a solid grip on the gun.





You need to bury the grip safety in the web of the hand, not under the thumb. What you have going on now is a bad hand position. 60 + percent of the grip pressure comes from the offhand anyway. Put that weapon in the web of your thumb and forefinger and get comfortable. You should be able to hit and stay on the safety easily, and it is a strong hand position.
You will find the gun much easier to fire,more stable, and recoil minimized when you do this.
Link Posted: 11/24/2001 6:23:50 PM EDT
SA
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