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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Building my SHTF Rifle (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 7/19/2015 1:53:53 PM EDT
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Hello everyone,
I have been going back and forth on building a rifle system for SHTF and my main two ideas are as follows: 1: a SPR inspired 5.56 with an 18" heavy barrel, no spec. lower or uppers yet, but I want this rifle to shoot sub MOA with reloads. I will be building this as a weapon system capable of tactical accuracy out to 500 yds. 2. A bolt action 7.62 NATO, capable of 1,000 yds with hand loads, I would prefer a barrel no more than 22" and to be either bull barrelled or heavy barrelled. 3. Both these weapon choices must not exceed $1,100 WITHOUT GLASS and be ultra reliable in the field. The $1,100 budget does not include bipods or slings either. Just the weapon system. 4. The main purpose of this rifle is to provide better range than my 3 buddies can provide. (Standard Colt Ar15, Remington 870, 22LR) and capable of engaging targets in rural conditions, (woodlands, fields possibly urban) 5. I have never shot 7.62 NATO out of a weapon system other than a 240B, and I have shot 5.56 out to 400 meters. 6. I am proficient with M4/M16 variants but have limited experience with bolt guns. Have at it gentlemen and ladies. Any questions just post and let me know |
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Welcome.
If you're purpose is to provide greater range and punch than your buddies, I would suggest not going with a 5.56mm platform. My vote would be a PTR-91 variant. Most can be had under your stated budget, magazines are stupid cheap, the rifle itself is stupid reliable, and they come with options to mount optics. Unless you're trained to make 1000 yard shots, I would skip the bolt-action idea unless you're willing to dump more money into a precision rifle course or two. A semi 7.62 NATO weapon will fill the gap in the extended range you want (probably not to 1000 with a PTR though, realistically, but farther than what your buddies can reach), depending on what kind of ammo the rifle likes and what optics you choose. ETA: If you're an aspiring prepper, come join us in the survival forum. |
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Welcome. If you're purpose is to provide greater range and punch than your buddies, I would suggest not going with a 5.56mm platform. My vote would be a PTR-91 variant. Most can be had under your stated budget, magazines are stupid cheap, the rifle itself is stupid reliable, and they come with options to mount optics. Unless you're trained to make 1000 yard shots, I would skip the bolt-action idea unless you're willing to dump more money into a precision rifle course or two. A semi 7.62 NATO weapon will fill the gap in the extended range you want (probably not to 1000 with a PTR though, realistically, but farther than what your buddies can reach), depending on what kind of ammo the rifle likes and what optics you choose. ETA: If you're an aspiring prepper, come join us in the survival forum. Agreed. Think about investing in skill, better $1000 worth of skill/training and a $100 rifle than the opposite. Cool hardware gets brag points, but won't go far in a bad situation. Skills son, real skills. |
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So far the fist couple of reply's are right on. I don't mind a 5.56 for accuracy out to 500. My advice is to go look a the MK12 thread, and basically follow that as a guideline. You can put together an AR based for about $1000, but it will not be super brand name special. To some that's everything, but to others skill is what is impressive. I tend to lean towards skill. Never mind the 1000 yard shot, unless you are planning on do competition. Should the SHTF and you have 1000 yard to target, you are better off breaking contact. If it is something that you have to do, you can get a Remington 5R or PSS for about a grand. Or dig around for Winchester 70. |
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why not get a scar 17 or an ar10? Since you are proficient with an m4/m16. These two weapon systems have the same controls and are common enough... in SHTF 1 rifle does not do it all. Having a few different rifles for different scenarios is preferable.. (because your wife or family might need a rifle to back your A** up.) PS- the scar 17 is my absolute favorite rifle. It has never malfunctioned, has great accuracy, and is the lightest 7.62x51 rifle in it's class . |
| With respect, what would make the most sense to me is a simple 16" Ar carbine from DPMS, PSA, or the like. Stick with what you know. 5.56 isn't a great long range round, but is ample for out to 300. You will have firepower and sufficient accuracy to there. Simple magpull furniture, a sling, and a light. For a rear sight I like a cut down carry handle. For reliable glass you can't go wrong with a trijicon reflex- RDS, durable as hell, no batteries. |
| If SHTF is your ultimate priority, you will want a semi in your favorite caliber. No need for those $3000 AR's, get a DPMS Gen II or similar AR10 to reach out. As was posted above, unless your skilled at 1000 yard shots, better to brake off. You can always change out the barrel down the road for an upgrade if needed. Until then, get the rifle and get to the range often to build up your proficiency. Good luck. BTW, if you will shoot allot, RELOAD your own. Cheaper. I have 2 AR10's to feed and this allows me more range time. |
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I'd also recommend a 5.56 AR, within your budget. Out of the 4 buddies, there are only 2 riflemen, and it would be logistically sound for them to use the same mags and ammo. If you want to hand load, you can make some very capable accurate loads for your weapon. I would not go over a 16" barrel. You're not adding any real ballistic advantage, and you may easily find yourself doing CQB since you only have 4 guys. When pricing AR's, the most important thing is to get a great quality chrome-lined barrel. Then bolt, then trigger group, bolt carrier, charging handle, and gas tube. That's the most important stuff (in order). In my opinion, the best "all-around" 7.62 is the SCAR 17, but obviously it's way over-budget. I favor M14 type rifles over the PTR (not that they aren't good). If you had a guy looking who was knowledge about Chinese M14S, you could find a good one in your price range, and have enough left over to put a Criterion (or other NM) barrel on it. Many shoot very well with their original barrels, however. If one had excellent knowledge of the current 7.62 AR market, one could be built within budget also, and it would likely be almost as reliable as the M14 or HK style, but have better ergonomics than either. How much range advantage would that give you over the 5.56 AR? As was said, it won't be significant unless you are an expert rifleman, and it will cost much less in ammo to become one if you do it firing 5.56. Also, when assaulting up-close, well, intermediate caliber AR's are just better.  Most fighting is up-close, especially if one is not engaging a clearly distinguished enemy. |
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Well, just to play along.... I like your idea of going .308. It's a pretty common round. And I like bolt guns, so..... and shooting at 1000 would be fun. Do you have a range where you can? It certainly would be a lot of fun getting to the point where you are capable at that range. If only for bragging rights and knowing that you can do it.
The one thing I always think about when SHTF is hunting. And you have small game covered. Deer are hard to get close to sometimes and having the capability of making good hits at distance could be the difference between a meal and not a meal. That would be my justification for going that route. Venison is goooooood. I'm not so much concerned with shooting other people at 1k in a shtf scenario. I personally would love to have a M40A1 clone. 
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I bet you could find a lightly used Remington 700 in .308 at a pawn shop equipped with glass already. Slap a MagPul stock and bottom metal to allow you to use their mags and you're good to go unless you want a different scope.
I'm not sure when the MagPul stuff is being released, though. Handled it at the NRA convention, very nice indeed. |
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If you are new to bolt actions, I would go pick up a Rem 700 or model seven, Savage 10, 11 or Hog hunter, Howa 1500, Ruger American, etc in .243, 308, 22-250 for $300-$500 and get a decent scope and start from there. You can pick up a standard rifle pretty cheap used and once you are proficient with it you can keep it for a back up or loaner, or sell it off and upgrade to a more "tactical" rifle.
Or I can think of a few pretty decent options at or around your budget. DPMS LR-308 Ruger Precision Rifle This is brand new out, but looks very promising for the price. |
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With respect, what would make the most sense to me is a simple 16" Ar carbine from DPMS, PSA, or the like. Stick with what you know. 5.56 isn't a great long range round, but is ample for out to 300. You will have firepower and sufficient accuracy to there. Simple magpull furniture, a sling, and a light. For a rear sight I like a cut down carry handle. For reliable glass you can't go wrong with a trijicon reflex- RDS, durable as hell, no batteries. I can ring steel out to 400 with my 12.5" AR, running a 1x4 MTAC. I have folding BUIS for plan B. I do like a cut down carry handle, have them on 2 guns. You mentioned 300 yds. Realistically Unless you're in the sticks. Most contacts will be made in an urban or semi-urban setting. The OP would get a better return on his investment taking a few carbine classes. Then decide how to build the best gun for his needs. IMO for the OP's AR as others have mentioned, a run of the mill AR with good glass will do what he want's. For SHTF something lighter than heavier should be considered. Not sure how the OP's health is, mine... The last thing i want to do is hump a 8-12lb rifle all over the place. Among other items of importance / survival. |
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I'd never trust a home build as a hard use gun. LEA's don't even approve them for use, or even most of the cheaper brands/models (let alone the military wouldn't touch them with a 10ft pole).
You might want to think about a truly-quality factory gun, or at least that for a -complete- upper (with BCG, and do not dink with the gas system, barrel nut, etc. |
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I'd never trust a home build as a hard use gun. LEA's don't even approve them for use, or even most of the cheaper brands/models (let alone the military wouldn't touch them with a 10ft pole). You might want to think about a truly-quality factory gun, or at least that for a -complete- upper (with BCG, and do not dink with the gas system, barrel nut, etc. That's because they buy from the lowest bidder. You're going to tell me my SBR'd Stag with Geissele trigger group, carbon arms f/float tube and MTAC isn't a "quality / reliable" gun 
I guess my 6920 that i'm replacing the stock HG's with a keymod rail, TBAC suppressor mount and removing the front sight is dinking around. Thus making it an unreliable gun ? |
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That's because they buy from the lowest bidder. You're going to tell me my SBR'd Stag with Geissele trigger group, carbon arms f/float tube and MTAC isn't a "quality / reliable" gun
I guess my 6920 that i'm replacing the stock HG's with a keymod rail, TBAC suppressor mount and removing the front sight is dinking around. Thus making it an unreliable gun ? Quoted:
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I'd never trust a home build as a hard use gun. LEA's don't even approve them for use, or even most of the cheaper brands/models (let alone the military wouldn't touch them with a 10ft pole). You might want to think about a truly-quality factory gun, or at least that for a -complete- upper (with BCG, and do not dink with the gas system, barrel nut, etc. That's because they buy from the lowest bidder. You're going to tell me my SBR'd Stag with Geissele trigger group, carbon arms f/float tube and MTAC isn't a "quality / reliable" gun
I guess my 6920 that i'm replacing the stock HG's with a keymod rail, TBAC suppressor mount and removing the front sight is dinking around. Thus making it an unreliable gun ? I trust my custom built (by me) AR's more than any factory AR. As an LEO and PMC armorer, "Tier One" stuff fails regularly. My stuff WORKS. YMMV. |
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Quoted: I trust my custom built (by me) AR's more than any factory AR. As an LEO and PMC armorer, "Tier One" stuff fails regularly. My stuff WORKS. YMMV. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'd never trust a home build as a hard use gun. LEA's don't even approve them for use, or even most of the cheaper brands/models (let alone the military wouldn't touch them with a 10ft pole). You might want to think about a truly-quality factory gun, or at least that for a -complete- upper (with BCG, and do not dink with the gas system, barrel nut, etc. That's because they buy from the lowest bidder. You're going to tell me my SBR'd Stag with Geissele trigger group, carbon arms f/float tube and MTAC isn't a "quality / reliable" gun I guess my 6920 that i'm replacing the stock HG's with a keymod rail, TBAC suppressor mount and removing the front sight is dinking around. Thus making it an unreliable gun ? I trust my custom built (by me) AR's more than any factory AR. As an LEO and PMC armorer, "Tier One" stuff fails regularly. My stuff WORKS. YMMV.  I'm also a LEA armorer. After inspection, we approve home builds for duty use, if it works and none of the parts are known crap.  As far as military acquisition, well IMHO the DOD procurement process is extremely complex (and political), and even if you totally understand it, I'm not so sure it ever completely makes sense. |
| If SHTF includes survival, then you need a rifle capable of putting meat on the table with downrange energy sufficient for one shot kills of large animals out to about 400-500 yards. That would be the bolt action in .308. Ammo will be more plentiful in that or in a long action .30-'06 than the other calibers suggested. Actually, I'd pick the '06. |
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I'd never trust a home build as a hard use gun. LEA's don't even approve them for use, or even most of the cheaper brands/models (let alone the military wouldn't touch them with a 10ft pole). You might want to think about a truly-quality factory gun, or at least that for a -complete- upper (with BCG, and do not dink with the gas system, barrel nut, etc. I take strong issue with this statement. My Spikes upper M&P 15 lower, Geissele triggered, Daniel Defense railed, WMD NiB-X BCG, Magpul furnitured, precision cut nitride barreled carbine "home build" will run with anything you want to put it up against. Why would you think "dinking" with a barrel nut by replacing the stock one with a proprietary Daniel Defense version for the DD free float rail somehow makes the rifle less reliable? |
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I think is also dependent on the region. Here in the heavily wooded Smoky mtns where I live, theres little chance of having any shot further then maybe 100yrds. Even something like a .44 carbine would prolly suffice. I've hunted here since the early 70s, and my furthest shot was 100ish yards(whitetail deer). Instantly DRT using an 11.5" 5.56 AR with M193. I have rifles in 5.56, 7.62x39, 7.62x51, and .44mag. If I had to grab one and carry from then on, it'd be an AR in 5.56. <a href="http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hipower90hipower/media/Tsali010018.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d161/hipower90hipower/Tsali010018.jpg</a> On my 10 acres. Pretty tough just getting thru, when off-trail. Note 2 camo'd ARs.. <a href="http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hipower90hipower/media/SampWE1911WC1742_zpsc3965b3c.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d161/hipower90hipower/SampWE1911WC1742_zpsc3965b3c.jpg</a> Even in the winter, with very few exceptions(roadways, urban area) this is about as good as it gets. <a href="http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hipower90hipower/media/tsalijan010006.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d161/hipower90hipower/tsalijan010006.jpg</a> My shooting range on the property. That farthest backstop is 85 yrds. Even in this winter pic, you can see how thick its gets if one goes off trail. <a href="http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hipower90hipower/media/SP1%20w%20CAR%20stock%20385_zpsx7f4druy.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d161/hipower90hipower/SP1%20w%20CAR%20stock%20385_zpsx7f4druy.jpg</a> Quoted:
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If SHTF includes survival, then you need a rifle capable of putting meat on the table with downrange energy sufficient for one shot kills of large animals out to about 400-500 yards. That would be the bolt action in .308. Ammo will be more plentiful in that or in a long action .30-'06 than the other calibers suggested. Actually, I'd pick the '06. I think is also dependent on the region. Here in the heavily wooded Smoky mtns where I live, theres little chance of having any shot further then maybe 100yrds. Even something like a .44 carbine would prolly suffice. I've hunted here since the early 70s, and my furthest shot was 100ish yards(whitetail deer). Instantly DRT using an 11.5" 5.56 AR with M193. I have rifles in 5.56, 7.62x39, 7.62x51, and .44mag. If I had to grab one and carry from then on, it'd be an AR in 5.56. <a href="http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hipower90hipower/media/Tsali010018.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d161/hipower90hipower/Tsali010018.jpg</a> On my 10 acres. Pretty tough just getting thru, when off-trail. Note 2 camo'd ARs.. <a href="http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hipower90hipower/media/SampWE1911WC1742_zpsc3965b3c.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d161/hipower90hipower/SampWE1911WC1742_zpsc3965b3c.jpg</a> Even in the winter, with very few exceptions(roadways, urban area) this is about as good as it gets. <a href="http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hipower90hipower/media/tsalijan010006.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d161/hipower90hipower/tsalijan010006.jpg</a> My shooting range on the property. That farthest backstop is 85 yrds. Even in this winter pic, you can see how thick its gets if one goes off trail. <a href="http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hipower90hipower/media/SP1%20w%20CAR%20stock%20385_zpsx7f4druy.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d161/hipower90hipower/SP1%20w%20CAR%20stock%20385_zpsx7f4druy.jpg</a> Good point down here in North GA it is the same dense environment. I woundnt worry about the 100+ yard shots. |
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Good point down here in North GA it is the same dense environment. I woundnt worry about the 100+ yard shots. Quoted:
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If SHTF includes survival, then you need a rifle capable of putting meat on the table with downrange energy sufficient for one shot kills of large animals out to about 400-500 yards. That would be the bolt action in .308. Ammo will be more plentiful in that or in a long action .30-'06 than the other calibers suggested. Actually, I'd pick the '06. I think is also dependent on the region. Here in the heavily wooded Smoky mtns where I live, theres little chance of having any shot further then maybe 100yrds. Even something like a .44 carbine would prolly suffice. I've hunted here since the early 70s, and my furthest shot was 100ish yards(whitetail deer). Instantly DRT using an 11.5" 5.56 AR with M193. I have rifles in 5.56, 7.62x39, 7.62x51, and .44mag. If I had to grab one and carry from then on, it'd be an AR in 5.56. <a href="http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hipower90hipower/media/Tsali010018.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d161/hipower90hipower/Tsali010018.jpg</a> On my 10 acres. Pretty tough just getting thru, when off-trail. Note 2 camo'd ARs.. <a href="http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hipower90hipower/media/SampWE1911WC1742_zpsc3965b3c.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d161/hipower90hipower/SampWE1911WC1742_zpsc3965b3c.jpg</a> Even in the winter, with very few exceptions(roadways, urban area) this is about as good as it gets. <a href="http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hipower90hipower/media/tsalijan010006.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d161/hipower90hipower/tsalijan010006.jpg</a> My shooting range on the property. That farthest backstop is 85 yrds. Even in this winter pic, you can see how thick its gets if one goes off trail. <a href="http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hipower90hipower/media/SP1%20w%20CAR%20stock%20385_zpsx7f4druy.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d161/hipower90hipower/SP1%20w%20CAR%20stock%20385_zpsx7f4druy.jpg</a> Good point down here in North GA it is the same dense environment. I woundnt worry about the 100+ yard shots. I never quite understand this. Don't you all have roads that present shots for long distances? Deer cross the roads or stand on the side of them sometimes. Obviously. |
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I never quite understand this. Don't you all have roads that present shots for long distances? Deer cross the roads or stand on the side of them sometimes. Obviously. Quoted:
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If SHTF includes survival, then you need a rifle capable of putting meat on the table with downrange energy sufficient for one shot kills of large animals out to about 400-500 yards. That would be the bolt action in .308. Ammo will be more plentiful in that or in a long action .30-'06 than the other calibers suggested. Actually, I'd pick the '06. I think is also dependent on the region. Here in the heavily wooded Smoky mtns where I live, theres little chance of having any shot further then maybe 100yrds. Even something like a .44 carbine would prolly suffice. I've hunted here since the early 70s, and my furthest shot was 100ish yards(whitetail deer). Instantly DRT using an 11.5" 5.56 AR with M193. I have rifles in 5.56, 7.62x39, 7.62x51, and .44mag. If I had to grab one and carry from then on, it'd be an AR in 5.56. <a href="http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hipower90hipower/media/Tsali010018.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d161/hipower90hipower/Tsali010018.jpg</a> On my 10 acres. Pretty tough just getting thru, when off-trail. Note 2 camo'd ARs.. <a href="http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hipower90hipower/media/SampWE1911WC1742_zpsc3965b3c.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d161/hipower90hipower/SampWE1911WC1742_zpsc3965b3c.jpg</a> Even in the winter, with very few exceptions(roadways, urban area) this is about as good as it gets. <a href="http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hipower90hipower/media/tsalijan010006.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d161/hipower90hipower/tsalijan010006.jpg</a> My shooting range on the property. That farthest backstop is 85 yrds. Even in this winter pic, you can see how thick its gets if one goes off trail. <a href="http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hipower90hipower/media/SP1%20w%20CAR%20stock%20385_zpsx7f4druy.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d161/hipower90hipower/SP1%20w%20CAR%20stock%20385_zpsx7f4druy.jpg</a> Good point down here in North GA it is the same dense environment. I woundnt worry about the 100+ yard shots. I never quite understand this. Don't you all have roads that present shots for long distances? Deer cross the roads or stand on the side of them sometimes. Obviously. Yes but roads here turn and change elevation alot. So with all the vegetation and road conditions unless you are on an interstate you can't see that far. |
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My wife is from Anniston AL, and there are plenty of places you can see 1000 yards. And more. What you say be berry berry strange to me. But I don't live there, so.... you know better than I. I live north of Atlanta GA not AL. I am sure there are lots of places you can see 1000 yards in GA but not near where I live. Longest outdoor range up in north GA is 100 yards. There are 5 or 6 outdoor ranges within 1.5 hours of me. |
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I never quite understand this. Don't you all have roads that present shots for long distances? Deer cross the roads or stand on the side of them sometimes. Obviously. Quoted:
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If SHTF includes survival, then you need a rifle capable of putting meat on the table with downrange energy sufficient for one shot kills of large animals out to about 400-500 yards. That would be the bolt action in .308. Ammo will be more plentiful in that or in a long action .30-'06 than the other calibers suggested. Actually, I'd pick the '06. I think is also dependent on the region. Here in the heavily wooded Smoky mtns where I live, theres little chance of having any shot further then maybe 100yrds. Even something like a .44 carbine would prolly suffice. I've hunted here since the early 70s, and my furthest shot was 100ish yards(whitetail deer). Instantly DRT using an 11.5" 5.56 AR with M193. I have rifles in 5.56, 7.62x39, 7.62x51, and .44mag. If I had to grab one and carry from then on, it'd be an AR in 5.56. <a href="http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hipower90hipower/media/Tsali010018.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d161/hipower90hipower/Tsali010018.jpg</a> On my 10 acres. Pretty tough just getting thru, when off-trail. Note 2 camo'd ARs.. <a href="http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hipower90hipower/media/SampWE1911WC1742_zpsc3965b3c.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d161/hipower90hipower/SampWE1911WC1742_zpsc3965b3c.jpg</a> Even in the winter, with very few exceptions(roadways, urban area) this is about as good as it gets. <a href="http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hipower90hipower/media/tsalijan010006.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d161/hipower90hipower/tsalijan010006.jpg</a> My shooting range on the property. That farthest backstop is 85 yrds. Even in this winter pic, you can see how thick its gets if one goes off trail. <a href="http://s35.photobucket.com/user/hipower90hipower/media/SP1%20w%20CAR%20stock%20385_zpsx7f4druy.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d161/hipower90hipower/SP1%20w%20CAR%20stock%20385_zpsx7f4druy.jpg</a> Good point down here in North GA it is the same dense environment. I woundnt worry about the 100+ yard shots. I never quite understand this. Don't you all have roads that present shots for long distances? Deer cross the roads or stand on the side of them sometimes. Obviously. Not much. I'm sure theres an exception if one looks for it..like shooting from here toward this powerline cut. This is just a few hundred yards from my place..out with the dogs. The AT runs across that ridge hidden in the clouds(one of my last resort bug out routes). 
Most of our roads look like this, like the one I live down... 
There IS stuff like this near town. Yes, a .308 would be better for this. 
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Quoted: I'd never trust a home build as a hard use gun. LEA's don't even approve them for use, or even most of the cheaper brands/models (let alone the military wouldn't touch them with a 10ft pole). You might want to think about a truly-quality factory gun, or at least that for a -complete- upper (with BCG, and do not dink with the gas system, barrel nut, etc. Home builds are a collection of parts assembled into a complete rifle. What do you think is different about the factory guns? Here's a hint: not a damn thing. |
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I really think that if I could only have one longgun in a shtf scenario it would be an m4a1 cloneish carbine with an acog.
I could make due with my 590a1 or my heavy barreled savage .308 with 3-10 scope or my m16a2 clone or my AK but the m4 is the most flexible. Ive killed dear with the 556 no problem. Its not my goto hunting rifle but it'll do. I currently have a aimpoint pro on my go to carbine but would switch it for an acog if I had the money. Acogs are much better at inspecting the shadows of a rocky ledge or treeline for enemy movement then a RDS. |
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Yes, I do think most of the builds on here are unreliable. Lol. And I think there are thousands of builds that would quickly fail if SHTF and they suddenly saw an actual round count more than a couple hundred. Some, less.
I get that people will take offense to this opinion. But honestly, I think it's because no one wants to think their home build isn't 100% or better. If the gov truly just went with the lowest bidder, a LOT more of you would be seeing the same logo on mil weapons as you see now on your personal ones at home. Luckily for the military, it's not that simple. |
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I want a bolt gun in 6.8 for that purpose if ammo was easier to get. Quoted:
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Split the difference, go with an AR in 6.8 spc I want a bolt gun in 6.8 for that purpose if ammo was easier to get. Me too, but in SHTF, ammo availability becomes really important. I handload a lot of different calibers, so it is less an issue for me. But most of the less common rounds I reload are for hunting and I only need maybe 100 good reloadable cases for each of them (40 S&W, 6mm Rem, .280, 7mm Rem Mag, 300 Weatherby, 45-70 and a few others). But, in .9mm, 308, '06 and 5.56, I stockpile in large quantities. For those who do not handload, limit your choices to what you can stockpile readily and expect to find in quantity between now and whatever constitutes SHTF for you. For me, that is .22LR, 9mm, 12 gauge, 5.56, .308 and '06. Just my view. Thus, in addition to a good 9mm, a .22LR pistol or rifle, a 12 gauge shotgun, and an AR15 carbine, the logical choice for longer range harder hitting bolt gun would be .308 or '06. |
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There is no reason why you cannot have a couple long guns in your inventory.
A nice, high quality, all purpose .308 bolt gun, and a Colt 6920 make a lot of sense. If I was only going to own one rifle, and did not hunt bug game, I would still build a high end Recce, and top it with a high end piece of Glass like a Nightforce. |
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why not get a scar 17 or an ar10? Since you are proficient with an m4/m16. These two weapon systems have the same controls and are common enough... in SHTF 1 rifle does not do it all. Having a few different rifles for different scenarios is preferable.. (because your wife or family might need a rifle to back your A** up.) PS- the scar 17 is my absolute favorite rifle. It has never malfunctioned, has great accuracy, and is the lightest 7.62x51 rifle in it's class . This....SCAR. He did state a SHTF rifle. Not a bolt gun. |
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Best deal going on a .308 bolt gun: Savage hog Hunter. Great trigger, medium contour barrel, threaded barrel, serviceable sight. 400-450 dollars.
AR....you got $650, maybe a M&P couple mags a little ammo for both. Done for a bit, add a 10/22, 870, and two Glock 19s and you may have all the guns you will ever need. ...get a Ruger ml II, and some cans and boom your done! I wish I had known this combo years ago, I could have skipped a bunch of gun shows. |
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There is no one weapon that will do everything. And it depends on the environment. So, if you're going to be in Alaska and extreme cold temperatures I wouldn't want something with small tight fitting parts. With that in mind would not take an AR15 in that environment.
The things I look for in a STHF weapon is; reliability and durability easy to find parts mags and ammo easy to fix and work on powerful enough to take down animals, get through barriers and give you short, medium and longer (not long) range shots. So I would go with something in 223 or 308. I would pick an AR15 for a 223 cal and FAL for a 308 cal. The reason I wouldn't pick an AR in 308 is because parts are not interchangeable due to proprietary parts. The reason I wouldn't take a SCAR17 is because of the same reasons Just because there are better rifles than the AR and FAL or better calibers doesn't mean they are better for a SHTF scenario. Can't go wrong with the FAL with 16 or 18 inch barrel. My DSA OSW with 11 inch barrel will get me out to 500+ yards. It's easy to work on and there are plenty of parts that you can get cheap. For a complete set of weapons I would recommend .22 cal rifle for small game 12 ga Shot gun for large and small game AR15 in 223 FAL in 308 If I had to pick one all around rifle without knowing the environment or goals it would be my Para FAL with 18 inch barrel or my OSW. Not much it can't do in most environments. Next would be a quality DI AR15. Not piston AR because they have proprietary parts which make it harder to find parts for. Don't really think there is a need for a bolt gun and other calibers. If you want accuracy and range maybe. But that's a very specific set up for a very specific job. Those that chose bolt guns for SHTF scenario are forgetting that combat is a factor for survival in a SHTF scenario. It's not just hunting. I wouldn't want to have a bolt gun if a bunch of thugs were approaching me and only 50 yards away
If I were going into combat which is very different than a SHTF scenario I'd go with a SCAR17 for a 308 or Piston AR15 for 223 (LWRC, Larue, POF, Sig, CMMG) So, make the distinction between SHTF and combat. |
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Are you choosing between the two, or wanting suggestions for each?
Either way, I would suggest against either one, to be frank. You should be concentrating on a PDW style weapon, some thing small, light, easy to carry, that has enough firepower to get yourself out of a situation. As a civilian, when/if the "SHTF," your concern is staying out of contact, and staying alive. It's an extended self defense scenario, not a combat scenario. Stop reading the survival fiction section, and start looking at more realistic scenarios first. FerFAL's story, Katrina, Rodney King riots. All of these have happened within your lifetime, if you're more than 20 years old. Lucifer's Hammer? The Road? Zombies? None of these have happened. Recall that "prep for the most common threat first" mantra? You and your friends are probably never going to be the last fire-team on earth, scavenging and hunting for the last sustenance, between battles with mutant biker gangs. A 10-16" AR15 can be a very light weapon, and 5.56 is capable for hundreds of yards past what you will realistically need a rifle to shoot. It can also be made handy enough that you will be more inclined to have it on you, and therefore, have it when you need it...which is MUCH more important than being able to kill something at 1000 yards. You mentioned shooting a 240, you should know how much carrying heavy shit sucks if you were military. I think you would be best served buying something like a 6920, putting a simple, quality red dot and a simple, quality light on it, then spending the rest of the money on the best quality ammunition you can get your hands on. 5.56 with modern bullets is vastly more capable than it's given credit for, even by people on this forum. After you pick up this practical rifle, learn to shoot it to the extent of its capabilities, (The military did NOT teach you this. Trust me. In fact, they likely taught you some of the worst, most out dated gun handling skills around.) then save up some money and pick up a battle rifle or a bolt gun capable of hitting targets at a thousand yards. All of that being said, if you want a precision gun, go buy one. There's no need to justify why you want a gun with some vague SHTF scenario that will probably never happen. It's ok to have a gun just because it's cool and you want it. |
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Are you choosing between the two, or wanting suggestions for each? Either way, I would suggest against either one, to be frank. You should be concentrating on a PDW style weapon, some thing small, light, easy to carry, that has enough firepower to get yourself out of a situation. As a civilian, when/if the "SHTF," your concern is staying out of contact, and staying alive. It's an extended self defense scenario, not a combat scenario. Stop reading the survival fiction section, and start looking at more realistic scenarios first. FerFAL's story, Katrina, Rodney King riots. All of these have happened within your lifetime, if you're more than 20 years old. Lucifer's Hammer? The Road? Zombies? None of these have happened. Recall that "prep for the most common threat first" mantra? You and your friends are probably never going to be the last fire-team on earth, scavenging and hunting for the last sustenance, between battles with mutant biker gangs. A 10-16" AR15 can be a very light weapon, and 5.56 is capable for hundreds of yards past what you will realistically need a rifle to shoot. It can also be made handy enough that you will be more inclined to have it on you, and therefore, have it when you need it...which is MUCH more important than being able to kill something at 1000 yards. You mentioned shooting a 240, you should know how much carrying heavy shit sucks if you were military. I think you would be best served buying something like a 6920, putting a simple, quality red dot and a simple, quality light on it, then spending the rest of the money on the best quality ammunition you can get your hands on. 5.56 with modern bullets is vastly more capable than it's given credit for, even by people on this forum. After you pick up this practical rifle, learn to shoot it to the extent of its capabilities, (The military did NOT teach you this. Trust me. In fact, they likely taught you some of the worst, most out dated gun handling skills around.) then save up some money and pick up a battle rifle or a bolt gun capable of hitting targets at a thousand yards. All of that being said, if you want a precision gun, go buy one. There's no need to justify why you want a gun with some vague SHTF scenario that will probably never happen. It's ok to have a gun just because it's cool and you want it. Quality AR15 in 14 to 18 inch barrel will do most of what you want.in most scenarios and environments. Wouldn't want an AR in extremely cold/ice weather or extreme muddy conditions where the small tight parts will jam. In that case I'd go with 308 like an FAL. But you cant go wrong with an AR15 for a SHTF weapon. A bolt gun for SHTF is definitely the wrong weapon to have. |
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As I read posts like this I realize if a SHTF scenario happens there are going to be a lot of people that wont survive.
A bolt gun is absolutely the wrong choice. You need a weapon that can fill many roles not just hunting. You can actually put food on the table without a gun JS Hunting, defense, range, common cal, common parts and reliability in that environment are the factors to consider. |
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A 5.56 carbine would sufice for pretty much every shtf situation imaginable You wont be taking 1000 yard head shots on guys wearing helmets made of ar500 plates Get an ar carbine, and get good with it I agree. The AR can do a wide range of things. I would go with a quality AR for most places. If you are going to be in extreme environments like Alaska I'd go with an FAL or maybe an M1A. |
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As I read posts like this I realize if a SHTF scenario happens there are going to be a lot of people that wont survive. A bolt gun is absolutely the wrong choice. You need a weapon that can fill many roles not just hunting. You can actually put food on the table without a gun JS Hunting, defense, range, common cal, common parts and reliability in that environment are the factors to consider. A handgun, imo, will take care of 99% of threats. SHTF or otherwise. Which long gun you have on you probably wont make a difference. Software trumps hardware Implying you will die if you're carrying a bolt gun is
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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Building my SHTF Rifle (Page 1 of 2)
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