Armory Sponsor
Posted: 5/29/2014 8:04:50 PM EDT
| In your opinion which one is better, and why? I'll add a poll. |
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There is absolutely no firearm on the planet that offers the range of customization, accessories, available sources of parts & general 'have it your way' design, compared to the original AR platform. ACR, XCR, SCAR, FNC, whatever... They may be good rifles, but in the end they're just another specific sort of gun, limited to what they originally were sold as, with only one source of parts (only one MFG)....
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For sheer availability of parts, simplicity of design, ease of use, and ease of disassembly and maintenance, and customization options, the AR can't be beat. These other modern rifles have design features that make them interesting. Given enough time, effort and money to perfect them and spread their acceptance, something else could become "the next AR." But as it is they remain in the realm of collectors and niche shooters. I will say that I was a little shocked at the failure of the ACR... from what I understand it has more to do with lack of company support than any serious design flaw? |
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This thread has been discussed alot. Search those threads to see my full thoughts.
The cliff's notes is this: The ACR is a great design but was manufactured very poorly and is backed by a company with terrible service and virtually no parts availability. The AR is a good design and is built by some of the best (and also some of the worst) companies in the business with almost unlimited parts availability. I sold my ACR and have never regretted that sale for a moment. It was the second worst modern 5.56 combat rifle I have ever owned (behind the MSAR). |
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it's all about replacement parts for me...........if their ever needed/availability,ect. shit I can get a quality bolt group for an AR for $129.00
AR hands down. AK47 2nd in line. I know both these platforms well, along with their quirks. I can make them run and keep running! I enjoy looking at new rifles/carbines, ect. parts support scares me if a ban were to happen. |
| As a lefty I like shooting the ACR more than any of the bastardized pseudo-lefty ARs you can create with aftermarket parts. Everything is right where it should be, instead of "where we can make it fit." But I absolutely acknowledge that it is a stepchild gun with little support from the maker and virtually none from the aftermarket. It would be a terrible gun for TEOTWAWKI because good luck finding a spare bolt for it in a pinch. |
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Well if a SHTF scenario were to occur. AR15s and AK47s would be the most ubiquitous. Parts would be easy to come by. Anything else then there are problems. yes http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/i342/lennyzrx/006_zps9a063fd5.jpg http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/i342/lennyzrx/001_zps9b584fa1.jpg http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/i342/lennyzrx/004_zps062123f6.jpg Nice! 
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Awesome parts bin. Now, are those cast triggers?  who knows. LOL. A little of this a little of that. PSA shit. BCM, DSG, ect. and what ever was on sale at the time......ya know. I've got 8 complete carrier groups also. plus my AK crap point is...........have your spares with what ever platform you prefer! learn to keep it up and running. maybe hand fit stuff at times, files, dremmels,ect. learn the system/ systems you'll roll with, quirks, part's ,hand-fitting ect. sad to think a 50 cent spring would drop a system? my wife say's but they all look the same............you have OCD.........I just laugh. maybe I do.........my shit run's though! 
you guy's have to remember I'm a hunter..........not so much tactical........though I'd pit my shit against whatever! 
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Well if a SHTF scenario were to occur. AR15s and AK47s would be the most ubiquitous. Parts would be easy to come by. Anything else then there are problems. It is ridiculous to base a rifle purchase off the availability of parts if "SHTF." I'm sure that parts availability will be low on the list of priorities under food, water, safe location, shelter, ammunition acquisition, medical care, and on. Not to mention, if life got that bad you could probably pick up a ubiquitous AR or AK off a dead body. |
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It is ridiculous to base a rifle purchase off the availability of parts if "SHTF." I'm sure that parts availability will be low on the list of priorities under food, water, safe location, shelter, ammunition acquisition, medical care, and on. Not to mention, if life got that bad you could probably pick up a ubiquitous AR or AK off a dead body. Quoted:
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Well if a SHTF scenario were to occur. AR15s and AK47s would be the most ubiquitous. Parts would be easy to come by. Anything else then there are problems. It is ridiculous to base a rifle purchase off the availability of parts if "SHTF." I'm sure that parts availability will be low on the list of priorities under food, water, safe location, shelter, ammunition acquisition, medical care, and on. Not to mention, if life got that bad you could probably pick up a ubiquitous AR or AK off a dead body. LOL. ammo dude. trading, barter, in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king! spare parts don't hurt! My skilled trade is mechanical in background and I like to tinker like a few others here. it does'nt matter if it's a washing machine, lawn tractor ect...........ain't worth shit if ya can't fix it, make a part or keep it going....junk then. A rifle/pistol/shotgun is just a exspensive club then? a rifle,pistol,shotgun ain't shit with a broken extractor,ejector,firing pin. I really doubt you'll see to many firearm's just lay'n there if times get tough?
LEARN YOUR SYSTEM! |
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LOL. ammo dude. trading, barter, in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king! spare parts don't hurt! My skilled trade is mechanical in background and I like to tinker like a few others here. it does'nt matter if it's a washing machine, lawn tractor ect...........ain't worth shit if ya can't fix it, make a part or keep it going....junk then. A rifle/pistol/shotgun is just a exspensive club then? a rifle,pistol,shotgun ain't shit with a broken extractor,ejector,firing pin LEARN YOUR SYSTEM! Quoted:
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Well if a SHTF scenario were to occur. AR15s and AK47s would be the most ubiquitous. Parts would be easy to come by. Anything else then there are problems. It is ridiculous to base a rifle purchase off the availability of parts if "SHTF." I'm sure that parts availability will be low on the list of priorities under food, water, safe location, shelter, ammunition acquisition, medical care, and on. Not to mention, if life got that bad you could probably pick up a ubiquitous AR or AK off a dead body. LOL. ammo dude. trading, barter, in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king! spare parts don't hurt! My skilled trade is mechanical in background and I like to tinker like a few others here. it does'nt matter if it's a washing machine, lawn tractor ect...........ain't worth shit if ya can't fix it, make a part or keep it going....junk then. A rifle/pistol/shotgun is just a exspensive club then? a rifle,pistol,shotgun ain't shit with a broken extractor,ejector,firing pin LEARN YOUR SYSTEM! As a certified armorer on six different weapon systems, I've done a bit of tinkering here and there, and I have "learned my system," so let's stipulate that electronic chest thumping will bring this thread to a premature conclusion. The OP is asking a question about two weapons, because he is considering a purchase. If parts are unavailable to end user NOW, then fine, that is a big negative. But armchair commandos proclaiming, "I wouldn't buy X gun because if the world ends I can't get parts" is juvenile nonsense, and is poor advice to newer shooters who are just looking for an enjoyable shooting experience, not pretending to be Rick Grimes. |
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As a certified armorer on six different weapon systems, I've done a bit of tinkering here and there, and I have "learned my system," so let's stipulate that electronic chest thumping will bring this thread to a premature conclusion. The OP is asking a question about two weapons, because he is considering a purchase. If parts are unavailable to end user NOW, then fine, that is a big negative. But armchair commandos proclaiming, "I wouldn't buy X gun because if the world ends I can't get parts" is juvenile nonsense, and is poor advice to newer shooters who are just looking for an enjoyable shooting experience, not pretending to be Rick Grimes. Quoted:
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Well if a SHTF scenario were to occur. AR15s and AK47s would be the most ubiquitous. Parts would be easy to come by. Anything else then there are problems. It is ridiculous to base a rifle purchase off the availability of parts if "SHTF." I'm sure that parts availability will be low on the list of priorities under food, water, safe location, shelter, ammunition acquisition, medical care, and on. Not to mention, if life got that bad you could probably pick up a ubiquitous AR or AK off a dead body. LOL. ammo dude. trading, barter, in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king! spare parts don't hurt! My skilled trade is mechanical in background and I like to tinker like a few others here. it does'nt matter if it's a washing machine, lawn tractor ect...........ain't worth shit if ya can't fix it, make a part or keep it going....junk then. A rifle/pistol/shotgun is just a exspensive club then? a rifle,pistol,shotgun ain't shit with a broken extractor,ejector,firing pin LEARN YOUR SYSTEM! As a certified armorer on six different weapon systems, I've done a bit of tinkering here and there, and I have "learned my system," so let's stipulate that electronic chest thumping will bring this thread to a premature conclusion. The OP is asking a question about two weapons, because he is considering a purchase. If parts are unavailable to end user NOW, then fine, that is a big negative. But armchair commandos proclaiming, "I wouldn't buy X gun because if the world ends I can't get parts" is juvenile nonsense, and is poor advice to newer shooters who are just looking for an enjoyable shooting experience, not pretending to be Rick Grimes. dude then ya should be ready to roll? rock on, so to speak. how many ACR's, SIG's,FN's are out there compared to the AR or AK systems? How many ACR, SCAR parts can ya grab in 15 minutes? you roll your way...........I'll roll mine... 
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There is absolutely no firearm on the planet that offers the range of customization, accessories, available sources of parts & general 'have it your way' design, compared to the original AR platform. ACR, XCR, SCAR, FNC, whatever... They may be good rifles, but in the end they're just another specific sort of gun, limited to what they originally were sold as, with only one source of parts (only one MFG).... Sums it up pretty good. |
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If parts are unavailable to end user NOW, then fine, that is a big negative. But armchair commandos proclaiming, "I wouldn't buy X gun because if the world ends I can't get parts" is juvenile nonsense, and is poor advice to newer shooters who are just looking for an enjoyable shooting experience, not pretending to be Rick Grimes. Those comments also indicate a lack of available parts now. Yes, an ACR is fun to shoot and fun to own. But if it breaks at a class no one is going to be able to help you out, and the LGS will laugh at you. So yes, maybe "SHTF" scenarios are remote, but it speaks to the fact that a gun may be a "boutique purchase" and a buyer would do well to consider that. If I took my ACR or ARX to a class I would take an AR as backup because if there's a significant failure the gun will be down for months while I wait for parts directly from Shrubmaster. |
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The OP didn't say he was buying a rifle for a class. Quoted:
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But if it breaks at a class no one is going to be able to help you out, and the LGS will laugh at you. The OP didn't say he was buying a rifle for a class. I don't know how other folk's do things? Really a rifle " BETTER RUN " carbine class or not? The person? operator should know how to keep it up and running? parts,repair,ect.simple field fixes? I'm not sure how it work's in your neck of the woods. I don't have fancy certification on weapons. Don't get me wrong I like a new system. I enjoy reading all the new stuff, advances ect. SCAR,ACR,SIG, Piston Rig's.............. Then comes the bottom line. What is the cheapest, most dependable thing/platform I can keep going? spare parts, ect. operator knowlege? AK, 7.62x39 for most. AR after that? |
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The OP didn't say he was buying a rifle for a class. Quoted:
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But if it breaks at a class no one is going to be able to help you out, and the LGS will laugh at you. The OP didn't say he was buying a rifle for a class. That was just an example. Same holds for "not a class." If your ACR's trigger box cracks at the range, you are SOL for several months. No one sells them but Bushmaster and they say no spares right now as they focus on production. Sure, you could snag a couple common failure items ahead of time just like with an AR. But if you have an "unusual" failure with an AR, odds are good there's a store within 30 minutes drive that has what you need. Not so with any boutique rifle. Again, I'm not saying boutique rifles are bad (I own a number of them). Just that a buyer needs to know he is buying one in advance. And comments to the effect of "It's nonsense to bring up parts availability as a negative" are silly. |
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One is an interesting curio. If I were training with one, I'd have a matched pair. That's my SOP for anything that I show up with at a class or big match anyway. you must have that OCD thing my wife told me about? 
I do love shottie's, kinda a spare parts thing. I have more than 2 of everything........in case I have to make my own replacement parts!
an old man needs that 12 gauge therapy to straight'en his ass up!.............
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AR15 wins cause it is more ergonomic in my book. The ACR would be a very fun range toy if I were made of money. if money was'nt a problem I'd have some oddball stuff too. I've seen alot of posts on turn-around time to fix weapons. it ain't always good. AK or AR ...........I know I can repair, Glock 17,19, the 1911, the same....all the parts/tools.fixtures are here! |
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I guess it depends on 'best'. Until I got an ACR, the AR was my favorite rifle. The ACR is definitely better made than most of the ARs. Maybe even marginally more accurate. If I were to grab one out of the two out of the safe for the end of time, the ACR would take the prize (ignoring things like availability of replacement parts). I have 10's of thousands of rounds out of ARs/M4s, but maybe only a grand through the ACR, so maybe my opinion will change with time. If I had a limited pot of money to buy only one, then I would go with an AR and extra ammo/mags/optic. If money is no object and we are comparing the rifles head-to-head for the purpose of range time, I'll take the ACR. And the SCAR is better yet I keep forgetting how enjoyable it is to shoot. The added smoothness may not be worth the cost difference to most people, but it would be one of the last I sell if ever pressed.
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ACR has a good concept behind it but if fell on it's ass. AR15 is the best of the two and you can't beat the modular design and numerous things you can do with the platform. YEP. AR,AK, Ruger 10-22,1911, just look at the banners overhead. AIM,DELTON,PK,,CMMG.Bravo Co., and the list never ends. A decent 6 inch vise/ sturdy bench and a few fixtures/tools, ya can build an AR. in short order. plug and play so to speak. also a good quality barreled AR will hang with many stock bolt guns in accuracy. |
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For the record, you don't need to have a "matched pair" to take a class. I did a 4 day defensive handgun at Front Sight, and swapped from my Kahr to my full size XD on the last day, intentionally, to "cross train". I still passed the graduation test, unlike the majority of the class. |
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ACR could've been great........it "could've been a contender," it "could've been somebody". Alas, ACR failed because Bushmaster didn't care enough to do something with this rifle design. Hindsight being 20/20 and all this isn't the first firearm that they dropped the ball on. M17S, had potential-discontinued and no further development Their .308 rifle-design-sold to RRA Not sure what they have against making money.
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Well if a SHTF scenario were to occur. AR15s and AK47s would be the most ubiquitous. Parts would be easy to come by. Anything else then there are problems. yes http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/i342/lennyzrx/006_zps9a063fd5.jpg http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/i342/lennyzrx/001_zps9b584fa1.jpg http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/i342/lennyzrx/004_zps062123f6.jpg Impressive! Although I'll have to give you 9/10 points for poor organizational skills.
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| The ACR for me. I think the AR is one of the worst rifles still in common use, and it coming in last or close to it in every military trial since 2007 backs that up. The charging handle is is a completely retarded place, the bolt catch/release is in a stupid place, DI is inherently less reliable, no folding stocks. The only advantage it has is it is so common and popular that parts are easy to get and play pretty pink dress up with your rifle, but that doesn't actually make the platform better, just popular. I tend to leave most of my rifles almost stock with just a couple minor parts here and there, so a glut of options doesn't mean anything to me. I sold off all but one of my AR's in the last year and am just moving on from that platform I think. |
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Quoted: The ACR for me. I think the AR is one of the worst rifles still in common use, and it coming in last or close to it in every military trial since 2007 backs that up. The charging handle is is a completely retarded place, the bolt catch/release is in a stupid place, DI is inherently less reliable, no folding stocks. The only advantage it has is it is so common and popular that parts are easy to get and play pretty pink dress up with your rifle, but that doesn't actually make the platform better, just popular. I tend to leave most of my rifles almost stock with just a couple minor parts here and there, so a glut of options doesn't mean anything to me. I sold off all but one of my AR's in the last year and am just moving on from that platform I think. Ok, humor me for just a moment. Let's say neither rifle existed prior to 5 minutes ago. And we were all using, I dunno, garands or mausers or something to this point. There's no aftermarket, there's no tripping over either rifle on your way to check the mail, you just have a choice: An M4gery or a ACR. Let's say their even both made by the same folks, which is convenient cuz bushmaster makes both. You're given a choice between the two...which do you take? In that case, it's pretty clear to me you take the ACR. Better ergos, folding stock, possibly more reliable gas system (it's certainly more conventional than the AR-15)... I know, I know, you can buy an AR upper at the dollar store I get it. It's why no semi auto 5.56 is likely to supplant it anytime soon. But take that away...which do you take now? |
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I'm not going to say that it's "one of the worst rifles still in common use" but other than that...are you sure you're not me? Ok, humor me for just a moment. Let's say neither rifle existed prior to 5 minutes ago. And we were all using, I dunno, garands or mausers or something to this point. There's no aftermarket, there's no tripping over either rifle on your way to check the mail, you just have a choice: An M4gery or a ACR. Let's say their even both made by the same folks, which is convenient cuz bushmaster makes both. You're given a choice between the two...which do you take? In that case, it's pretty clear to me you take the ACR. Better ergos, folding stock, possibly more reliable gas system (it's certainly more conventional than the AR-15)... I know, I know, you can buy an AR upper at the dollar store I get it. It's why no semi auto 5.56 is likely to supplant it anytime soon. But take that away...which do you take now? Quoted:
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The ACR for me. I think the AR is one of the worst rifles still in common use, and it coming in last or close to it in every military trial since 2007 backs that up. The charging handle is is a completely retarded place, the bolt catch/release is in a stupid place, DI is inherently less reliable, no folding stocks. The only advantage it has is it is so common and popular that parts are easy to get and play pretty pink dress up with your rifle, but that doesn't actually make the platform better, just popular. I tend to leave most of my rifles almost stock with just a couple minor parts here and there, so a glut of options doesn't mean anything to me. I sold off all but one of my AR's in the last year and am just moving on from that platform I think. Ok, humor me for just a moment. Let's say neither rifle existed prior to 5 minutes ago. And we were all using, I dunno, garands or mausers or something to this point. There's no aftermarket, there's no tripping over either rifle on your way to check the mail, you just have a choice: An M4gery or a ACR. Let's say their even both made by the same folks, which is convenient cuz bushmaster makes both. You're given a choice between the two...which do you take? In that case, it's pretty clear to me you take the ACR. Better ergos, folding stock, possibly more reliable gas system (it's certainly more conventional than the AR-15)... I know, I know, you can buy an AR upper at the dollar store I get it. It's why no semi auto 5.56 is likely to supplant it anytime soon. But take that away...which do you take now? The AR15 |
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Quoted: The AR15 Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The ACR for me. I think the AR is one of the worst rifles still in common use, and it coming in last or close to it in every military trial since 2007 backs that up. The charging handle is is a completely retarded place, the bolt catch/release is in a stupid place, DI is inherently less reliable, no folding stocks. The only advantage it has is it is so common and popular that parts are easy to get and play pretty pink dress up with your rifle, but that doesn't actually make the platform better, just popular. I tend to leave most of my rifles almost stock with just a couple minor parts here and there, so a glut of options doesn't mean anything to me. I sold off all but one of my AR's in the last year and am just moving on from that platform I think. Ok, humor me for just a moment. Let's say neither rifle existed prior to 5 minutes ago. And we were all using, I dunno, garands or mausers or something to this point. There's no aftermarket, there's no tripping over either rifle on your way to check the mail, you just have a choice: An M4gery or a ACR. Let's say their even both made by the same folks, which is convenient cuz bushmaster makes both. You're given a choice between the two...which do you take? In that case, it's pretty clear to me you take the ACR. Better ergos, folding stock, possibly more reliable gas system (it's certainly more conventional than the AR-15)... I know, I know, you can buy an AR upper at the dollar store I get it. It's why no semi auto 5.56 is likely to supplant it anytime soon. But take that away...which do you take now? The AR15  |
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Thank you for your elaborate and persuasive response. Quoted:
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The ACR for me. I think the AR is one of the worst rifles still in common use, and it coming in last or close to it in every military trial since 2007 backs that up. The charging handle is is a completely retarded place, the bolt catch/release is in a stupid place, DI is inherently less reliable, no folding stocks. The only advantage it has is it is so common and popular that parts are easy to get and play pretty pink dress up with your rifle, but that doesn't actually make the platform better, just popular. I tend to leave most of my rifles almost stock with just a couple minor parts here and there, so a glut of options doesn't mean anything to me. I sold off all but one of my AR's in the last year and am just moving on from that platform I think. Ok, humor me for just a moment. Let's say neither rifle existed prior to 5 minutes ago. And we were all using, I dunno, garands or mausers or something to this point. There's no aftermarket, there's no tripping over either rifle on your way to check the mail, you just have a choice: An M4gery or a ACR. Let's say their even both made by the same folks, which is convenient cuz bushmaster makes both. You're given a choice between the two...which do you take? In that case, it's pretty clear to me you take the ACR. Better ergos, folding stock, possibly more reliable gas system (it's certainly more conventional than the AR-15)... I know, I know, you can buy an AR upper at the dollar store I get it. It's why no semi auto 5.56 is likely to supplant it anytime soon. But take that away...which do you take now? The AR15 My elaborate and persuasive response is earlier in this thread (and in the eleventy billion other "ACR vs." posts on this forum). However, if you truly believe that the ACR (as manufactured) is superior to the AR15, I don't expect you to be persuaded by logic and reason. |
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Quoted: My elaborate and persuasive response is earlier in this thread (and in the eleventy billion other "ACR vs." posts on this forum). However, if you truly believe that the ACR (as manufactured) is superior to the AR15, I don't expect you to be persuaded by logic and reason. But a lot of people trot out the "zomg infinite parts" line, and i was trying (simply as a mental exercise) to sort of...level the playing field. If neither gun existed (so there's zero aftermarket for either), and they both got released both made by Bushmaster (so you can't buy a colt or a knights or a noveske, just a bushmaster)...I want to know why you'd still go with the AR. The reasons you gave earlier were: "was manufactured very poorly and is backed by a company with terrible service and virtually no parts availability. The AR is a good design and is built by some of the best (and also some of the worst) companies in the business with almost unlimited parts availability." So make both the rifles "manufactured poorly" from the same "company with terrible service" and remove the "almost unlimited parts availability" of the AR and do you still choose the AR-15? Why? I mean, I'm just curious. Genuinely. I enjoy discussion. I don't think anyone is arguing at this stage that the if you've got nearly 2 grand to spend and you want a good rifle that you should buy an ACR. I'm certainly not. But the whole 'i got boxes of bolt carriers' argument makes me roll my eyes. If General Atomics released a 40w Plasma Rifle tomorrow and it passed all manner of military trials but you couldn't get a single aftermarket part, it sounds like half of you would just be happy taking potshots at Terminators with your AR's because you've got all these parts for it. In the end none of this matters, we're all just holding our dicks, wasting time on the internet. |
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Quoted: therex, You mention poor execution on the ACR. What would you want changed, manufacturing wise, as far as the ACR is concerned? The trunnion/barrel attachment needs to be entirely redone. I understand the Remington one has a new trunnion/barrel nut, but the current design is pretty poor. It's impossible to know if your barrel is torqued "enough", and being able to go beyond "tight" and in some circumstances even having to is unforgivable. That and the ratcheting handle precluding the use of some of the MOE slots. What the hell, man? I'm not wild about the forward hand guard attachment points. I mean, it appears to work so whatever but I think I'd prefer a positive attachment vs the "slip in" nature of the current receiver. The M4 profile barrel is bullshit, but it's bullshit on AR's too so I guess I can't complain too much. It's just, uh, MORE bullshit on an ACR Lower needs to be redesigned. Just some tweaks, I think. I'm not one of the guys who insists on metal, I think polymer is fine but it would be nice to have a removable grip. More to the point, however, is that it's waaaaaaaay too easy to over-insert a mag (not an M3 but still) and this isn't just a problem when reloading from empty...this can cause function issues whenever there is positive upward pressure on the magazine. I've seen it myself. I'd also like to see the safety mechanism redone. Folding stock can hit the safety and bump it from safe to fire. #lolwut The "self clearance" charging handle wear on the upper is completely unacceptable. I love the charging handle location (and HATE the AR location) and I love the non-reciprocating-but-still-have-forward-assist functionality it. But it shouldn't cause any perceptible damage to the receiver beyond finish wear. Period. I should be able to let the bolt fly home a million times before it looks like anything's changed. Related to that, the gas system, when shortened to pistol length, interferes with the charging handle assembly. The ACR's gas system should be able to accommodate a barrel length no longer than the receiver itself, just because Rex Says So. While I'm dreaming I'd also like to see it lose some weight, I think there could be some lightening cuts all throughout the receiver. I'd also wonder how well the ACR would do with a "slick top" receiver, where the handguard and top rail were monolithic (or just the top rail, and handguard attachment stays consistent). Wouldn't mind seeing dual springs on the extractor, and maybe dual ejectors while we're at it. So there you go. My opinion. Worth what you paid for it. I didn't hate my ACR. The barrel was reprofiled and chopped to 14.5 and the weight/balance were perfect after that. It shot soft and fit me very well. But the glaring flaws mentioned above and the obvious lack of factory support for this product made me jump ship. (Well that, and I was offered a deal I couldn't turn down for a pitch-perfect, wouldn't change a GD thing SR-15). I think the design still has great potential. But it'll flounder at Bushmaster, plain and simple. Best thing for the ACR would be for BM to release the license for the ACR and have Magpul license the design to anyone for a dollar.
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Well, since you asked: The trunnion/barrel attachment needs to be entirely redone. I understand the Remington one has a new trunnion/barrel nut, but the current design is pretty poor. It's impossible to know if your barrel is torqued "enough", and being able to go beyond "tight" and in some circumstances even having to is unforgivable. That and the ratcheting handle precluding the use of some of the MOE slots. What the hell, man? I'm not wild about the forward hand guard attachment points. I mean, it appears to work so whatever but I think I'd prefer a positive attachment vs the "slip in" nature of the current receiver. The M4 profile barrel is bullshit, but it's bullshit on AR's too so I guess I can't complain too much. It's just, uh, MORE bullshit on an ACR Lower needs to be redesigned. Just some tweaks, I think. I'm not one of the guys who insists on metal, I think polymer is fine but it would be nice to have a removable grip. More to the point, however, is that it's waaaaaaaay too easy to over-insert a mag (not an M3 but still) and this isn't just a problem when reloading from empty...this can cause function issues whenever there is positive upward pressure on the magazine. I've seen it myself. I'd also like to see the safety mechanism redone. Folding stock can hit the safety and bump it from safe to fire. #lolwut The "self clearance" charging handle wear on the upper is completely unacceptable. I love the charging handle location (and HATE the AR location) and I love the non-reciprocating-but-still-have-forward-assist functionality it. But it shouldn't cause any perceptible damage to the receiver beyond finish wear. Period. I should be able to let the bolt fly home a million times before it looks like anything's changed. Related to that, the gas system, when shortened to pistol length, interferes with the charging handle assembly. The ACR's gas system should be able to accommodate a barrel length no longer than the receiver itself, just because Rex Says So. While I'm dreaming I'd also like to see it lose some weight, I think there could be some lightening cuts all throughout the receiver. I'd also wonder how well the ACR would do with a "slick top" receiver, where the handguard and top rail were monolithic (or just the top rail, and handguard attachment stays consistent). Wouldn't mind seeing dual springs on the extractor, and maybe dual ejectors while we're at it. So there you go. My opinion. Worth what you paid for it. I didn't hate my ACR. The barrel was reprofiled and chopped to 14.5 and the weight/balance were perfect after that. It shot soft and fit me very well. But the glaring flaws mentioned above and the obvious lack of factory support for this product made me jump ship. (Well that, and I was offered a deal I couldn't turn down for a pitch-perfect, wouldn't change a GD thing SR-15). I think the design still has great potential. But it'll flounder at Bushmaster, plain and simple. Best thing for the ACR would be for BM to release the license for the ACR and have Magpul license the design to anyone for a dollar. Quoted:
Quoted:
therex, You mention poor execution on the ACR. What would you want changed, manufacturing wise, as far as the ACR is concerned? The trunnion/barrel attachment needs to be entirely redone. I understand the Remington one has a new trunnion/barrel nut, but the current design is pretty poor. It's impossible to know if your barrel is torqued "enough", and being able to go beyond "tight" and in some circumstances even having to is unforgivable. That and the ratcheting handle precluding the use of some of the MOE slots. What the hell, man? I'm not wild about the forward hand guard attachment points. I mean, it appears to work so whatever but I think I'd prefer a positive attachment vs the "slip in" nature of the current receiver. The M4 profile barrel is bullshit, but it's bullshit on AR's too so I guess I can't complain too much. It's just, uh, MORE bullshit on an ACR Lower needs to be redesigned. Just some tweaks, I think. I'm not one of the guys who insists on metal, I think polymer is fine but it would be nice to have a removable grip. More to the point, however, is that it's waaaaaaaay too easy to over-insert a mag (not an M3 but still) and this isn't just a problem when reloading from empty...this can cause function issues whenever there is positive upward pressure on the magazine. I've seen it myself. I'd also like to see the safety mechanism redone. Folding stock can hit the safety and bump it from safe to fire. #lolwut The "self clearance" charging handle wear on the upper is completely unacceptable. I love the charging handle location (and HATE the AR location) and I love the non-reciprocating-but-still-have-forward-assist functionality it. But it shouldn't cause any perceptible damage to the receiver beyond finish wear. Period. I should be able to let the bolt fly home a million times before it looks like anything's changed. Related to that, the gas system, when shortened to pistol length, interferes with the charging handle assembly. The ACR's gas system should be able to accommodate a barrel length no longer than the receiver itself, just because Rex Says So. While I'm dreaming I'd also like to see it lose some weight, I think there could be some lightening cuts all throughout the receiver. I'd also wonder how well the ACR would do with a "slick top" receiver, where the handguard and top rail were monolithic (or just the top rail, and handguard attachment stays consistent). Wouldn't mind seeing dual springs on the extractor, and maybe dual ejectors while we're at it. So there you go. My opinion. Worth what you paid for it. I didn't hate my ACR. The barrel was reprofiled and chopped to 14.5 and the weight/balance were perfect after that. It shot soft and fit me very well. But the glaring flaws mentioned above and the obvious lack of factory support for this product made me jump ship. (Well that, and I was offered a deal I couldn't turn down for a pitch-perfect, wouldn't change a GD thing SR-15). I think the design still has great potential. But it'll flounder at Bushmaster, plain and simple. Best thing for the ACR would be for BM to release the license for the ACR and have Magpul license the design to anyone for a dollar. All good points. I can't argue with any of that. There is a lot of potential to the platform. Remington is stupid not to push the limits of it and open it to the civilian market. |
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Quoted:
If General Atomics released a 40w Plasma Rifle tomorrow and it passed all manner of military trials but you couldn't get a single aftermarket part, it sounds like half of you would just be happy taking potshots at Terminators with your AR's because you've got all these parts for it. LOL so true and this sometimes drives me crazy about Arfcom. You could release a gun that gives blowjobs and some guys would complain about the lack of spare mouths for it. |
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Quoted:
AR15 wins cause it is more ergonomic in my book. The ACR would be a very fun range toy if I were made of money. No the ACR is definitely more ergonomic. You've obviously never picked one up. It still loses because it is impossible to support, and has lots of unknowns. And the AR can be brought to 95% of the ACRs ergos with minor aftermarket stuff. It could have been a great rifle, but it is basically a weird curiosity, like a Daewoo, FnFNC, etc. |
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