Armory Sponsor
Posted: 4/27/2011 2:32:23 PM EDT
|
I have a Mosin I want to cut the barrel down to 16.5 inches and trim an inch or two off the buttstock. This will make it fit in the rifle rack in my Jeep. Knowing what a large fireball some of the 7.62x54r produces, I want to ENHANCE the fireball even more. The short barrel will help, but what about making it even bigger? I'm after some "Shock and Awe".
Update–– Meet "Lana" meaning "light" in Russian. Lets hope she lives up to her name! Here she is wearing a 16.5 inch tube which is almost a perfect fit for the Jungle carbine hider. 
But that wasn't short enough for me. Heck, it wasn't really any shorter than a M38. So she got cut again. This time right down to where the hider made it 16.25 inches long. The barrel at this point was .715 OD...the hider is .670 ID.  I took care of that ( a whole thread in itself ) and installed the hider. It got the two supplied pins to hold it on and two blind pins welded into the bottom of the hider to make it legal.
I shortened the stock to match, but still unsure of how to really finish it off. I would like to use both barrel bands but I want to re-install the sling escutcheons too. I'm still trying to think of a way to retain the front band. It's just press fit on there now. I masked off the front of the stock and shot it flat black for now. 
It's still not that much shorter than a M38 if you leave the buttstock original. I'll have a buddy of mine who is good with wood trim the stock for me on his bandsaw. The buttplate metal is tiny compared to the wood so I'll have him cut it down until the plate fits. This should shorten it another 1-1/12 inches. Range report forthcoming.. |
|
Quoted:
Good Lord! https://armamentsales.sslpowered.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/normal_KrinkFlashEnhancer.jpg reminds me of Goldeneye 007 for N64 haha |
|
Quoted:
The DeGroat is impressive....so is the price! I'm looking for something cheap to go on a $70 fun gun.In that case, anything that spreads out the muzzle blast over a larger area will work. You could make a simple muzzle break like device with a series of slots, I'd think. |
The Enfield "Jungle Carbine" flash supressors are available for about $40. I like the looks of them as I have seen a few cut down Mosins with them. This would also provide a front sight, but it's a supressor. I wonder if milling some slots in it would defeat the supressor aspects of it.
Jungle Carbine conversion kit |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Wouldn't you get the most flash from not having any type of muzzle device? I think directing the flash in a dramatic fashion is the OPs goal. ^^^ This. A front sight incorporated into the device would be optimal, but there are only a few to choose from. Man I want a lathe.. 
|
|
There is a difference between flash hiders and flash suppressors. The cone shaped attachment on the mk 5 jungle carbine is intended to hide the flash from the shooter. The same approach was used on machine guns and cannons in night fighters and night bombers during WWII to help preserve the pilot and gunners night vision. it also served to make the flash more visible to the target due to the concentration of the gasses after they left the muzle - and that had some side benefits once the firing stopped.
The slotted flash suppressors are intended to quickly disperse and cool the gasses to reduce the visible flash to help conceal the shooter, especially when combined with fast burning powders or powders with flash suppressants in them. To maximize brightness of the flash by concentrating it, a cone is the way to go, but if you want a massive fire ball, just use a slow burning powder that will still be very hot when exiting the muzzle. |
|
Quoted:
The DeGroat is impressive....so is the price! I'm looking for something cheap to go on a $70 fun gun.Knock off for $40. http://www.keepshooting.com/ar15-m16-flash-enhancer.html |
| I've got a mosin someone bubba'd before I bought it, and the barrel is right at under "17, and it puts out a HELL of a fireball. Don't think you'll need an enhancer, as it impresses folks right out of the box. 7.62x54r really should have more barrel than that, lol. |
|
Quoted:
Butbutbutbutbut... Flash enhancers are NOT tactical or MIL-SPEC? That's so not tier-1, bro HA! Neither is a 70 year old Mosin! I know shortening the barrel will help, but remember, I'm after "Shock and Awe". NAM, I like the flash that style makes, but it's a bit too large. At this point I'm leaning towards the jungle carbine style. |
|
Quoted:
There is a difference between flash hiders and flash suppressors. The cone shaped attachment on the mk 5 jungle carbine is intended to hide the flash from the shooter. The same approach was used on machine guns and cannons in night fighters and night bombers during WWII to help preserve the pilot and gunners night vision. it also served to make the flash more visible to the target due to the concentration of the gasses after they left the muzle - and that had some side benefits once the firing stopped. The slotted flash suppressors are intended to quickly disperse and cool the gasses to reduce the visible flash to help conceal the shooter, especially when combined with fast burning powders or powders with flash suppressants in them. To maximize brightness of the flash by concentrating it, a cone is the way to go, but if you want a massive fire ball, just use a slow burning powder that will still be very hot when exiting the muzzle. Thank you. I have tried to get people on this board to understand that when they talk about an "A2 flash hider", but they just scoff and try to justify their ignorance. |
|
Thread it for an AK brake and use one of those 74 brakes adapted to a standard AKM or an AMD-65 brake. They are both brakes and will divert the flash out of the sides while shattering your neighbors eardrums.
I chopped my PSL to 16" and used a '74 FSB. The flash hider actually cuts some of the flash...the brake, not so much. 
|
|
This belongs here, I believe...
No, it's not a silencer. This little doodad is my own invention. I call it a loudener. |
|
Quoted:
This belongs here, I believe... No, it's not a silencer. This little doodad is my own invention. I call it a loudener. 
|
|
Quoted:
This belongs here, I believe... No, it's not a silencer. This little doodad is my own invention. I call it a loudener. LMAO! |
|
Quoted:
7.62 x 54R from a 16" barrel ? Well I find it delightful. Here's a custom built AR AK (in 54R) caught mid-blast. http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5045/5318464134_477e03917c_b.jpg Fixed it fer ya'. My jungle carbine hider shipped Wed. The hacksaw is getting itchy.
|
|
Quoted:
I just ordered the jungle carbine style flash hider This is a modified pic of XDS 's carbine to show how short I want to go. Threading the muzzle would be nice, but too much $$$ and no front sight to boot. http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f110/vassili67/Mosins/stumpy.jpg If you permanently attach that flash hider you can go with a barrel much shorter than 16 inches, that looks like you could take 3 inches off and end up with a 13 inch barrel with that attached to bring the overall length to just over 16 inches to make it legal. That should result in a noticeable increase in flash over just a 16 inch barrel and the flash hider. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I just ordered the jungle carbine style flash hider This is a modified pic of XDS 's carbine to show how short I want to go. Threading the muzzle would be nice, but too much $$$ and no front sight to boot. http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f110/vassili67/Mosins/stumpy.jpg If you permanently attach that flash hider you can go with a barrel much shorter than 16 inches, that looks like you could take 3 inches off and end up with a 13 inch barrel with that attached to bring the overall length to just over 16 inches to make it legal. That should result in a noticeable increase in flash over just a 16 inch barrel and the flash hider. Yup, thats the plan. The hider should be here tomorrow. I'm going to have to enlarge the bore on the hider or reduce the barrel diameter some. The barrel is .685 where I think I have to cut it. I'll know for sure when the hider gets here. I'm going to use the supplied pin and weld it in and a blind pin/weld on the bottom. |
|
Quoted: 7.62 x 54R from a 16" barrel ? Well I find it delightful. Here's a custom built AR (in 54R) caught mid-blast. http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5045/5318464134_477e03917c_b.jpg That pic screams "GET THE FUCK OFF MY LAWN!!!!!!!!" |
|
<––––––––––––friend's 8" Mauser with flash enhancer.
And here is one on a 10.5" postie. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DrRrG4huBA |
|
Well if we're all just showing off now: Here's my 7.5" upper on a post sample lower. http://youtu.be/jcL9vsSKCgE |
|
Quoted: Well if we're all just showing off now: Here's my 7.5" upper on a post sample lower. http://youtu.be/jcL9vsSKCgE I have seen this a few times. I like the meltin glove part. |
Thats pretty good for a .223 The_Kyle. I got my package today...too bad the padded envelope was ripped and taped shut. It has a sticker on it that says "Recieved in damaged condition in Apache Junction, AZ Please accept our apologies". Damaged my foot! It's empty! Now I have to go deal with the USPS.
|
|
Quoted: Thats pretty good for a .223 The_Kyle. I got my package today...too bad the padded envelope was ripped and taped shut. It has a sticker on it that says "Recieved in damaged condition in Apache Junction, AZ Please accept our apologies". Damaged my foot! It's empty! Now I have to go deal with the USPS. |
|
Quoted:
There is a difference between flash hiders and flash suppressors. The cone shaped attachment on the mk 5 jungle carbine is intended to hide the flash from the shooter. The same approach was used on machine guns and cannons in night fighters and night bombers during WWII to help preserve the pilot and gunners night vision. it also served to make the flash more visible to the target due to the concentration of the gasses after they left the muzle - and that had some side benefits once the firing stopped. The slotted flash suppressors are intended to quickly disperse and cool the gasses to reduce the visible flash to help conceal the shooter, especially when combined with fast burning powders or powders with flash suppressants in them. To maximize brightness of the flash by concentrating it, a cone is the way to go, but if you want a massive fire ball, just use a slow burning powder that will still be very hot when exiting the muzzle. Everything Ive ever read about flash suppressors/hiders was to maintain night vision for the shooter. The only time Ive heard people refer to them as a concealing device has been from gun control advocates concerning the assault weapons ban now expired. Could you please provide the source of your information? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
There is a difference between flash hiders and flash suppressors. The cone shaped attachment on the mk 5 jungle carbine is intended to hide the flash from the shooter. The same approach was used on machine guns and cannons in night fighters and night bombers during WWII to help preserve the pilot and gunners night vision. it also served to make the flash more visible to the target due to the concentration of the gasses after they left the muzle - and that had some side benefits once the firing stopped. The slotted flash suppressors are intended to quickly disperse and cool the gasses to reduce the visible flash to help conceal the shooter, especially when combined with fast burning powders or powders with flash suppressants in them. To maximize brightness of the flash by concentrating it, a cone is the way to go, but if you want a massive fire ball, just use a slow burning powder that will still be very hot when exiting the muzzle. Everything Ive ever read about flash suppressors/hiders was to maintain night vision for the shooter. The only time Ive heard people refer to them as a concealing device has been from gun control advocates concerning the assault weapons ban now expired. Could you please provide the source of your information? Logic prevails here I think. A hider designed to hide the flash from the shooter for night vision preservation would still give your position away to the enemy. A flash "supressor" would hide the flash from the shooter as well as conceal his pos. from the enemy. I want a bigger flash (Shock and Awe) so a hider is what I want. BTW, I ordered another one from Numrich. Who knows how long it will take to get satisfaction from the USPS. 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
There is a difference between flash hiders and flash suppressors. The cone shaped attachment on the mk 5 jungle carbine is intended to hide the flash from the shooter. The same approach was used on machine guns and cannons in night fighters and night bombers during WWII to help preserve the pilot and gunners night vision. it also served to make the flash more visible to the target due to the concentration of the gasses after they left the muzle - and that had some side benefits once the firing stopped. The slotted flash suppressors are intended to quickly disperse and cool the gasses to reduce the visible flash to help conceal the shooter, especially when combined with fast burning powders or powders with flash suppressants in them. To maximize brightness of the flash by concentrating it, a cone is the way to go, but if you want a massive fire ball, just use a slow burning powder that will still be very hot when exiting the muzzle. Everything Ive ever read about flash suppressors/hiders was to maintain night vision for the shooter. The only time Ive heard people refer to them as a concealing device has been from gun control advocates concerning the assault weapons ban now expired. Could you please provide the source of your information? Logic prevails here I think. A hider designed to hide the flash from the shooter for night vision preservation would still give your position away to the enemy. A flash "supressor" would hide SUPPRESS the flash from the shooter as well as conceal his pos. from the enemy. I want a bigger flash (Shock and Awe) so a hider is what I want. BTW, I ordered another one from Numrich. Who knows how long it will take to get satisfaction from the USPS.
And that is the difference that I have not been able to get folks to understand when they refer to the "A2 flash hider" on their ARs. Can't get it though to them a flash hider (which I have never seen on an AR) and a flash suppressor are different things. Flash hider: 
Flash suppressor: 
Personally, I have never seen an AR type rifle with a flash hider. |
|
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: There is a difference between flash hiders and flash suppressors. The cone shaped attachment on the mk 5 jungle carbine is intended to hide the flash from the shooter. The same approach was used on machine guns and cannons in night fighters and night bombers during WWII to help preserve the pilot and gunners night vision. it also served to make the flash more visible to the target due to the concentration of the gasses after they left the muzle - and that had some side benefits once the firing stopped. The slotted flash suppressors are intended to quickly disperse and cool the gasses to reduce the visible flash to help conceal the shooter, especially when combined with fast burning powders or powders with flash suppressants in them. To maximize brightness of the flash by concentrating it, a cone is the way to go, but if you want a massive fire ball, just use a slow burning powder that will still be very hot when exiting the muzzle. Everything Ive ever read about flash suppressors/hiders was to maintain night vision for the shooter. The only time Ive heard people refer to them as a concealing device has been from gun control advocates concerning the assault weapons ban now expired. Could you please provide the source of your information? Logic prevails here I think. A hider designed to hide the flash from the shooter for night vision preservation would still give your position away to the enemy. A flash "supressor" would hide SUPPRESS the flash from the shooter as well as conceal his pos. from the enemy. I want a bigger flash (Shock and Awe) so a hider is what I want. BTW, I ordered another one from Numrich. Who knows how long it will take to get satisfaction from the USPS. And that is the difference that I have not been able to get folks to understand when they refer to the "A2 flash hider" on their ARs. Can't get it though to them a flash hider (which I have never seen on an AR) and a flash suppressor are different things. Flash hider: http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g293/rx7turbo929/garand%20and%20ebr%20stuff/DSC02787.jpg http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g293/rx7turbo929/garand%20and%20ebr%20stuff/DSC02795.jpg Flash suppressor: http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g293/rx7turbo929/garand%20and%20ebr%20stuff/DSC02788.jpg http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g293/rx7turbo929/garand%20and%20ebr%20stuff/DSC02789.jpg Personally, I have never seen an AR type rifle with a flash hider. What? You've never seen one of these?  |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Update in OP Very cool. So you permanently added the cone flash hider, what is the barrel length now? How did you cut the barrel down? OP stated the barrel length is 16.25" with the flash hider. KB7DX how did you fit the flash hider to the barrel? |
Well, to make a long story short, I used a file. I filed off "flats" in the barrel kinda like an octagon barrel, but more sides. I did this with counted strokes of the file. I measured the barrel OD each time I made a complete pass around the barrel. Each sequence of filing flats overlapped the previous one 50% thereby filing on the high spots between flats. When i got close to .670, I started curving? the strokes to round the barrel. I checked the concentricity with the bore using a modified Lee case trimmer gage and my digital caliper in depth gage mode. I wasn't concerned with too much precision so no "you can't do that" from you supressor guys I'm not supressing it and the hole in the cone hider is more than large enough for the bullet to pass. I'm sure it's not perfectly centered or straight, but I and everyone I showed the barreled action to can't detect any crookedness in it either.
The muzzle was filed flat and crowned with a ball shaped stone and finished with a brass round headed screw and some lapping compound.(Thanks Mr. Potterfield!) I have to amend some info in the update–– The first pic I reference the barrel as being 16.5 inches long...oops. The barrel in that pic was cut where the cone hider would fit without any reduction in barrel diameter. The Sharpie line behind the hider is the 16.5 inch mark. I didn't measure the barrel after I made the first cut...sorry. Test firing and pic/video to come...stay tuned! |
Armory Sponsor