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Posted: 12/23/2010 11:23:43 AM EDT
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I have resigned myself to selling off an M1A and picking up a carbine in 5.56. I am down to 2 choices that cost about the same.
The Scar is really accurate and durable but I don't think I will be folding the stock much, save for car rides and the charging handles need extra attention aka $$. A Steyr AUG can be had for about $2k in the NATO stock and uses AR mags. The drawback is I would have to pump in money to irons and optical sights to use it. I love the look of both but I would give the perceived reliability edge to the Scar, although I could be wrong. This is a backup to my go-to rifle and I would train with it, hunt, and plink with it. Which is the one you would buy? |
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Both are nice rifles. I'd get the SCAR (I did) over the AUG though. I'm just much more comfortable with a traditional rifle as far as ergonomics go though. I don't like the cross bolt safety on the AUG, the gas port flash, length of pull due to me being a short dude, mag release, non ambi charging handle, and 1 in 9 twist.
The SCAR wins in the following categories: -Lighter -More ergonomic -Easily suppressed -Lefty or righty friendly with no additional parts. -Has built in sights (good ones) -Has better mounting options -Adjustable stock to fit you -1 in 7 twist barrel I think the SCAR gives you way more for the money. |
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Steyr AUG. You would need to invest some money into optics for either to get the best out of them. The Steyr is also extremely accurate and I can regularly out shoot people using bolt-actions; the last time I shot with it, I had more success than a friend using a top-end HS Precision in .308. This was at 200 yards, and it often matches them out to 300 without difficulty.
Reloads are the best option to get them shooting like this, although it will shoot reasonably well with millsurp. The barrel likes 69gn bullets which is as heavy as I need, but running 77gn would be handy. Ergonomics are as good as bullpups get. The magazine release is a bit awkward however, I tend to use the 10rnd magazine, it is easy to operate with a 30rnd. I love how easy it is to clean too. I don't think the minor reliability difference would show at all in a civilian environment. If you want to bolt accessories on, there are some good rail options these days. In my view, they are short enough with a 20" inch barrel to be viable for most things. The difference in accuracy over distance should be marked if you go shorter; I can't really say as we don't have a 16" inch option, but it wouldn't be my choice for much outside pure defence with that length barrel. Here is a 20" with a 16" inch barrelled .22LR. Best comparison I have at the minute. |
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Cold hammer forged barrel with the SCAR. Button rifled barrel with the AUG A3. 1:7 twist with the SCAR. 1:9 twist with the AUG A3. Standard 1/2x28mm threaded barrel with the SCAR. 13x1mm threaded barrel with the AUG A3. Extruded Aluminum upper receiver with the SCAR. Cast receiver with the AUG A3. Free Float Barrel with the SCAR. Non-free float barrel with the AUG A3. Neither have available aftermarket barrels. SCAR accepts STANAG magazine. AUG magazines are OEM Steyr and MSAR STG mags. Adjustable folding stock with the SCAR. Fixed stock with the AUG, but shorter OAL. As stated above the SCAR will run more silent with a suppressor than the AUG. I'd give the edge in quality to FNH. The SCAR's service life is insane (rated at 30,000 rounds for their barrel and a 90,000 overall service life of the rifle that's hard to top). However, if your looking for a home defense application the AUG would trump the SCAR IMHO because of its short overall length (unless you had someone like ADCO cut the barrel and SBR'd the SCAR). If your focus was on SHTF, carbine courses, or competition I would probably go with the SCAR. Really depends what you want out of the firearm. |
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Cold hammer forged barrel with the SCAR. Button rifled barrel with the AUG A3. 1:7 twist with the SCAR. 1:9 twist with the AUG A3. Standard 1/2x28mm threaded barrel with the SCAR. 13x1mm threaded barrel with the AUG A3. Extruded Aluminum upper receiver with the SCAR. Cast receiver with the AUG A3. Free Float Barrel with the SCAR. Non-free float barrel with the AUG A3. Neither have available aftermarket barrels. SCAR accepts STANAG magazine. AUG magazines are OEM Steyr and MSAR STG mags. Adjustable folding stock with the SCAR. Fixed stock with the AUG, but shorter OAL. As stated above the SCAR will run more silent with a suppressor than the AUG. I'd give the edge in quality to FNH. The SCAR's service life is insane (rated at 30,000 rounds for their barrel and a 90,000 overall service life of the rifle that's hard to top). However, if your looking for a home defense application the AUG would trump the SCAR IMHO because of its short overall length (unless you had someone like ADCO cut the barrel and SBR'd the SCAR). If your focus was on SHTF, carbine courses, or competition I would probably go with the SCAR. Really depends what you want out of the firearm. damn, thats pretty hard to argue against |
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Well, here is a question for the OP: What would you hunt with it? I would hunt hogs and some deer. This gun would also ride along every time I go hiking for snakes and predators. One thing that worries me about the Scar is lack of parts availability and with the Aug you can get a great selection. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Well, here is a question for the OP: What would you hunt with it? I would hunt hogs and some deer. This gun would also ride along every time I go hiking for snakes and predators. One thing that worries me about the Scar is lack of parts availability and with the Aug you can get a great selection. If you're looking to have small parts on hand the FNH SCAR probably isn't the best solution. FNH does have good warranty service and you're less likely to have parts fail on the SCAR than the AUG. Neither have aftermarket barrels for purchase. The AUG A3 barrels MUST be an American made Sabre Defence Barrel, because using the pre-import ban Austrian made barrels would be illegal. I believe both companies produce the bulk of their small parts overseas so both could run into issues with parts shipments, which I have seen before where you'll need a part replaced and an EU company will say "well we're waiting on some to be shipped in and clear customs/ATF." I haven't seen that happen with FNH, but I have seen it happen with Steyr and other EU companies. |
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Go with an MSAR E4 if you are going the AUG route. They run about $1400 last time I checked.  I have read a fair number of threads here and I am a little hesitant about MSAR. I am not a hater and don't want this thread to be ruined now but I would strongly prefer the AUG. I have looked long and hard at MSAR. |
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Go with an MSAR E4 if you are going the AUG route. They run about $1400 last time I checked. I have read a fair number of threads here and I am a little hesitant about MSAR. I am not a hater and don't want this thread to be ruined now but I would strongly prefer the AUG. I have looked long and hard at MSAR. Are you in the San Antonio/Austin area by any chance??? If so there's a carbine shoot on 01-01-11 at the cedar ridge range in bulverde. On 01-02-11, Sunday, there will be another carbine shoot at the Austin Rifle club. I will be at both shoots so if you want to play with my MSAR PM/IM me.
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Quoted: Quoted: Go with an MSAR E4 if you are going the AUG route. They run about $1400 last time I checked. I have read a fair number of threads here and I am a little hesitant about MSAR. I am not a hater and don't want this thread to be ruined now but I would strongly prefer the AUG. I have looked long and hard at MSAR. To be honest Steyr and Sabre do employ more sound production methods to insure higher quality, but MSAR is every bit as capable of producing a high quality rifle. It's just that MSAR has a greater chance of having a part fail due to an error during production than Steyr. Both rifles use cast parts for example and both rifle use button rifling. Steyr through Sabre Defence appears to have the more advanced method for honing barrels and so forth, but that doesn't mean that the Sabre Defence barrel is always going to be better than an MSAR. They use the same material are roughly manufactured in about the same manner. The MSAR barrels come from Green Mountain who did a large number of barrels for Colt at one point (so they can do barrels and do them very well). Receivers are manufactured VERY similiarly. We're talking slight differences not massive differences. So the advantage to the Steyr is that you're less likely (not for certain though in the 2,800 or so rifles they've had a few issues just like every other rifle on earth) to have a part fail, but the trade off is that there are no different barrels to take advantage of the quick change without violating federal law and your paying $300 to $800 more for the Steyr. With MSAR you have to wonder if the young company will be around forever (they're only three years old) and with Steyr your concern is how well they'll continue to back the now discontinued AUG A3 and whether a steady stream of parts will always be available for a reasonable price. FNH SCAR16S has it's issues as well though. I think most modern firearms are produced fairly well and will give you decent service life especially as a civilian to be blunt about it. Do you really need an FNH Barrel that can do 30,000 rounds of Service life? Probably not. I doubt most folks here put more than 3,000 rounds a year through a rifle. |
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Quoted: I like some of the new rifles out there. Anymore I only buy rifles that do not have restricted repair parts. Bolt's,firing pins, ect,ect. Sending any rifle back to a manufacture is a deal breaker for me. I guess thats why I have so many AR's. It's very, very nice to be able to have parts on hand and have those parts be inexpensive. That said we've seen a lot of Franken ARs that are a hodge podge of parts that consistently fail. 
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| For the same amount of money or closer to it, I would like a SCAR. I know about the parts availability- but still! I am sure SCAR is as close to the ones used by all those real life Ninjas as one can get. Although, the civilian model w/ long(er) barrel looks kinda weird. |
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I don't shoot my MSAR now that I have a SCAR.
however, for your listed applications, an AUG would work well. I think the plusses and minuses have been covered well, above. I voted SCAR. SCAR also has better iron sights and is very easy to clean and break down. SCAR has chrome lined barrel, which I view as a plus. Parts availability goes to AUG platform...I have enough different rfles that I don't care about this. |
| Tough decision. I own two AUGs, an A3 and a USR debanned and turned into an A2. Also own a SCAR16s. Both platforms are fantastic. I recommend you shoot both and make a decision thereafter. Bullpups feel strange if you are not used to shooting them. The SCAR is more traditional. As others have said, the AUG wins as far as spare parts go. Eventually I think you will want both, but if you can only buy one at a time I recommend trying them out then deciding. |
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I do feel ammo cost is high for 7.62, so I would be looking at the Scar L if any. I have a friend who is trying his hardest to convince me to pick up the Scar H but the cost of the rifle is also too high.
I have come to feel that a 7.62 is too heavy and overkill for most of my applications. All the critters I hunt can be killed with 5.56 and I am more likely to grab the lighter weight rifle before the heavy one. My M1A hasn't been fired in 8 mos. |
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I voted for AUG. Its a more unique shooting experience, compared to the SCAR. Also, spare parts (though expensive) are availible. If there are any bans, people go out of business, etc then there is always grey market imports from Swiss / Euro gun shops..... This along with the whole SBR but no paperwork thing is what would drive me to an AUG. I got to shoot a real SCAR at an LEO competition in semi and full a while back and thought "Yep, that's a .223 carbine/machine gun". An AUG is different than the guns you already own and you won't be taking a bath on it given the prices that AUG's command on the used market. Steyr stopped making them again. |
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Forget the SCAR L and go SCAR H. Ammo isn't that much more than 5.56, and it's twice the rifle. I went through the SAME deal, sold an M1A and a couple other pieces to finance the SCAR 17, and it was the best firearms move I've made in 30 years.
I have over 90 firearms, and the SCAR is the absolute #1 favorite! SCAR 16 is a nice rifle, and so is are the AUG clones, but in the end, they're all 5.56, and if your going to get a 5.56 rifle, you're infinitely better off with an AR15 for a number of reasons. That's why SOCOM is looking at the SCAR H and has suspended interest in the SCAR 16...the M4 does all that for a quarter of the price. Now...a nice, handy, ergonomic and lightweight 7.62x51 NATO rifle...that caught their interest, and it should catch yours. :) I should get some sort of royalty, as often as I've been tooting the SCAR horn lately. But it's just that stinkin' cool!!! |
I owned a SCAR L briefly but I dont think it measures up to the quality of my preban AUG or my newer A3. It's not a bad weapon but I think the polymers used in its construction are cheap compared to the AUG. For a pre ban import, AUG parts are still easier to get than FN stuff. That really deters me from buying new FN products and I.m an FN fan (FAL etc). The SCAR H is a nice weapon but same problems : spare parts and then they use proprietary mags which are hard to get and expensive. Of course FN ships the rifle with ONE magazine. For my optics ready 7.62 I went with the LMT MWS.
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Cold hammer forged barrel with the SCAR. Button rifled barrel with the AUG A3. doesn't make any real difference. CHF was developed as a cost-saving methodology for making barrels. in the end, they are both good quality barrels thatwill last a lifetime. if anything, i'd argue the AUG still wins here because you can actually buy spare barrels, in a variety of lengths too, for the AUG. try getting a spare factory 10.5" barrel for a SCAR... 1:7 twist with the SCAR. 1:9 twist with the AUG A3. this only matters for some folks. Standard 1/2x28mm threaded barrel with the SCAR. 13x1mm threaded barrel with the AUG A3. valid point, though most QD mounts for suppressors can be had to fit the AUG. Extruded Aluminum upper receiver with the SCAR. Cast receiver with the AUG A3. extrusions aren't necessarily "good", nor are castings necessarily "bad". most aircraft parts, and i'm talking about the CRITICAL parts, are all castings. this is really a non-argument since they are both quality receivers. Free Float Barrel with the SCAR. Non-free float barrel with the AUG A3. Neither have available aftermarket barrels. AUG's have proven themselves to be one of the most accurate autoloading rifles available. neither of these guns will have an edge accuracy-wise. the only note here is, as i said above, you can actually buy spare AUG barrels. good luck finding a spare SCAR barrel. SCAR accepts STANAG magazine. AUG magazines are OEM Steyr and MSAR STG mags. again, this only matters to some people. i don't go around upset that every handgun manufacturer doesn't use glock mags... i don't know why this demand is so prolific in the long-gun world. Adjustable folding stock with the SCAR. Fixed stock with the AUG, but shorter OAL. valid point, but may not matter for some people. As stated above the SCAR will run more silent with a suppressor than the AUG. i haven't found either to have any real advantage here. the AUG SEEMS louder to the guy pulling the trigger because the gas vents from the piston which is right in front of your face. at the end of the day, most quality piston guns seem to suppress about the same. i'd love to see some numbers though. i'm basing this on my persoanl experience only. I'd give the edge in quality to FNH. no way. and not because i think FN makes junk, but because FN and Steyr both make quality gear. The SCAR's service life is insane (rated at 30,000 rounds for their barrel and a 90,000 overall service life of the rifle that's hard to top). PROJECTED service life is nice, but the AUG has been in service since the late 70's and has proven itself to be a workhorse. However, if your looking for a home defense application the AUG would trump the SCAR IMHO because of its short overall length (unless you had someone like ADCO cut the barrel and SBR'd the SCAR). If your focus was on SHTF, carbine courses, or competition I would probably go with the SCAR. Really depends what you want out of the firearm. please note that the above comments come from a guy that HATES the AUG from a "use-ability" standpoint, and no longer owns a single one... |
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Tough decision. I own two AUGs, an A3 and a USR debanned and turned into an A2. Also own a SCAR16s. Both platforms are fantastic. I recommend you shoot both and make a decision thereafter. Bullpups feel strange if you are not used to shooting them. The SCAR is more traditional. As others have said, the AUG wins as far as spare parts go. Eventually I think you will want both, but if you can only buy one at a time I recommend trying them out then deciding. this is the correct answer. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Cold hammer forged barrel with the SCAR. Button rifled barrel with the AUG A3. doesn't make any real difference. CHF was developed as a cost-saving methodology for making barrels. in the end, they are both good quality barrels thatwill last a lifetime. if anything, i'd argue the AUG still wins here because you can actually buy spare barrels, in a variety of lengths too, for the AUG. try getting a spare factory 10.5" barrel for a SCAR... 1:7 twist with the SCAR. 1:9 twist with the AUG A3. this only matters for some folks. Standard 1/2x28mm threaded barrel with the SCAR. 13x1mm threaded barrel with the AUG A3. valid point, though most QD mounts for suppressors can be had to fit the AUG. Extruded Aluminum upper receiver with the SCAR. Cast receiver with the AUG A3. extrusions aren't necessarily "good", nor are castings necessarily "bad". most aircraft parts, and i'm talking about the CRITICAL parts, are all castings. this is really a non-argument since they are both quality receivers. Free Float Barrel with the SCAR. Non-free float barrel with the AUG A3. Neither have available aftermarket barrels. AUG's have proven themselves to be one of the most accurate autoloading rifles available. neither of these guns will have an edge accuracy-wise. the only note here is, as i said above, you can actually buy spare AUG barrels. good luck finding a spare SCAR barrel. SCAR accepts STANAG magazine. AUG magazines are OEM Steyr and MSAR STG mags. again, this only matters to some people. i don't go around upset that every handgun manufacturer doesn't use glock mags... i don't know why this demand is so prolific in the long-gun world. Adjustable folding stock with the SCAR. Fixed stock with the AUG, but shorter OAL. valid point, but may not matter for some people. As stated above the SCAR will run more silent with a suppressor than the AUG. i haven't found either to have any real advantage here. the AUG SEEMS louder to the guy pulling the trigger because the gas vents from the piston which is right in front of your face. at the end of the day, most quality piston guns seem to suppress about the same. i'd love to see some numbers though. i'm basing this on my persoanl experience only. I'd give the edge in quality to FNH. no way. and not because i think FN makes junk, but because FN and Steyr both make quality gear. The SCAR's service life is insane (rated at 30,000 rounds for their barrel and a 90,000 overall service life of the rifle that's hard to top). PROJECTED service life is nice, but the AUG has been in service since the late 70's and has proven itself to be a workhorse. However, if your looking for a home defense application the AUG would trump the SCAR IMHO because of its short overall length (unless you had someone like ADCO cut the barrel and SBR'd the SCAR). If your focus was on SHTF, carbine courses, or competition I would probably go with the SCAR. Really depends what you want out of the firearm. please note that the above comments come from a guy that HATES the AUG from a "use-ability" standpoint, and no longer owns a single one... Thing is that the A3 barrel are a US part (Sabre Defence made per import restrictions requirements) and they only came in 16". I'm not sure, but the older Austrian barrels in different lengths might put you over the 18 USC 922r parts count thereby making your rifle illegal. Someone serious about buying an A3 who wants to give it the edge because of older imported barrels might want to look into that one. CHF barrels are more consistent in quality as well over the button rifling, because the button can be worn and if you don't have more labor intensive QC a company is more likely to get bad barrels that get by them. I get that Cast parts that are CNC machined can be good depending on the material, process used, and heat treatment. Still most folks feel better about forged, billet, and so forth. To each their own, but it is a difference to look at I think when you're looking at dropping $2K. The FNH SCAR is also probably going to be easier for aftermarket folks to do barrels with than the A3 barrels due to the gas block on the A3. |
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Quoted: I owned a SCAR L briefly but I dont think it measures up to the quality of my preban AUG or my newer A3. It's not a bad weapon but I think the polymers used in its construction are cheap compared to the AUG. For a pre ban import, AUG parts are still easier to get than FN stuff. That really deters me from buying new FN products and I.m an FN fan (FAL etc). The SCAR H is a nice weapon but same problems : spare parts and then they use proprietary mags which are hard to get and expensive. Of course FN ships the rifle with ONE magazine. For my optics ready 7.62 I went with the LMT MWS. http://i54.tinypic.com/2iiaoet.jpg Polymer comparison might be a valid comparison. I've seen FNH FS2000 stocks that were damaged, but I've never seen an AUG stock or for that matter an MSAR stock damaged. Although that might have more to do with the structure than the tensile strength of the resin used...couldn't say for sure, because everyone keeps their polymer a super "trade secret." FN magazines seem to be junk IMHO. Pretty much a toss it out item, but with the STANAG mag capability of the SCAR you just slap in a PMAG or Tango Down Mag (designed for the SCAR) and you're good to go. |
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I have no XP w/ the SCAR. I did have an AUG clone. I would not buy another one in 5.56. It has no advantages over any other 5.56 rifle except OAL. I would however buy another one if it came in x39 (not interested in the E4) or .308. I will get the 9mm MCS.
To me it is not capable of reasonable meduim range accuracy (without the aid of a firing position support) due to the vertical grip and short forend. I believe the Tavor would be a better option for what I want in a bullpup IF I wanted another 5.56 weapon. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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