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Posted: 11/29/2009 6:14:14 PM EDT
I was at a gun show today and saw several FN Scar's (three standards and one LB) all going for $2999.
I didn't even know they were out yet! I haven't even seen a person owning one in ARFCOMM 
Wow, I mean its a pretty cool rifle, and I've heard great things about it... but 3 g's for a 223? damn, even for a new release thats a lot!!! Has anyone heard if the US special ops units are using them yet? I saw an article a year ago or so saying that some units were going to the scar when it came out. anyone see any lower prices? |
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They are way too expensive in my opinion too for what it is. $1600 or less and they would be comparable to lots of piston AR choices out there with a good railed free float handguard which does basically the same thing in the same way. The price of various F&N products though are just way overpriced to me for what you get. I'll spend my money where I can get a better value. |
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They're expensive for two related reasons. Because they can. And because they can't sell something to the public for less than they sell to the gov't. They want to keep prices high to the gov/mil, so civilian market prices will be correspondingly higher. Bingo! |
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I was at a gun show today and saw several FN Scar's (three standards and one LB) all going for $2999.
I didn't even know they were out yet! I haven't even seen a person owning one in ARFCOMM
Wow, I mean its a pretty cool rifle, and I've heard great things about it... but 3 g's for a 223? damn, even for a new release thats a lot!!! Has anyone heard if the US special ops units are using them yet? I saw an article a year ago or so saying that some units were going to the scar when it came out. anyone see any lower prices? $3000 is overpriced. The SCAR should be $2400 to $2500 based upon dealer pricing. Yes, it is being used by SOCOM. |
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They're expensive for two related reasons. Because they can. And because they can't sell something to the public for less than they sell to the gov't. They want to keep prices high to the gov/mil, so civilian market prices will be correspondingly higher. Bingo! wow, somehow this doesn't supprise me. but never the less its still BS! and to think some bureaucrat is paying over $2000 for rifles is ridiculous! I do think our boys need the best rifle out there, but I don't know if this is it,,,,,, and there are plenty of competitors with lots of battle proven weapons systems for a lot less! I'm sure the Mil is getting a good discount, but someone who makes decisions probably got paid on this one. I still want one though!!! 
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| Got to shoot one last year at a 3 gun match, and personally, I was unimpressed. They must have had an entire team of engineers dedicated solely to making it feel cheap and plastickey. I have owned kel-tec's that felt more solid. So $3k is excessive. At half that I would consider it just to have something different but mostly it seems like a solution in desperate need of a problem. |
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They're expensive for two related reasons. Because they can. And because they can't sell something to the public for less than they sell to the gov't. They want to keep prices high to the gov/mil, so civilian market prices will be correspondingly higher. they don't sell them to the .gov for anything close to 3K each. |
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Supply and demand. I guarantee they're still selling every one that comes off the line and will be doing so for quite a while. It's bascic economics.
Can they get $3K each for them and still sell them all? If they can, why not? Eventually, the price will come down because sales slow. Happens with every gun debute. If I remember correctly, one of the points of the SCAR is it can be produced cheaply, so I guarantee the gov isn't paying very much for each of these rifles. It's an ongoing contract, so the sky is the limit as to how many the gov will eventually buy. The civi sales can be brought in price due to supply and demand (ie: basic economics) |
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Quoted: http://www.theplaceholder.com/forums/imagehosting/544a4541b18397f.jpg My precious!!! I have over 1K through mine and I love it, Hell I got a better group out of it last week at 100yds than my Rem 700  (yes the Remmy was having problems  )And I didn't get to shoot it! What's better, the ACR or the SCAR? I haven't shot the SCAR yet so I can't compare them. |
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http://www.theplaceholder.com/forums/imagehosting/544a4541b18397f.jpg My precious!!! I have over 1K through mine and I love it, Hell I got a better group out of it last week at 100yds than my Rem 700 (yes the Remmy was having problems )And I didn't get to shoot it!
What's better, the ACR or the SCAR? I haven't shot the SCAR yet so I can't compare them. The ACR was nice and I'll buy one of those when they come out but I did like the bolt release on the ACR better but the SCAR was much quieter than the ACR suppressed. |
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The following is my hypothesis as I do not know for a fact:
They have to turn a profit that is why. The SCAR 16S did require added cost. They couldn't just slap a 16" barrel on a MK16 and call it good. The rifle has to be designed so as to pass ATF regulations for approval for sale and that means that it has to be rigged not to be able to go full auto to ATF's satisfaction. So, they did have to put more money into the SCAR 16s in addition to what they spent on the SCAR 16 or MK16. Next they can only afford to make so many SCAR 16S rifle since I'm guessing the bulk of their production line is being used to fill their SOCOM contract, which is their main priority. Many of the machines being used for the SCAR 16s are also being used for the SOCOM SCAR 16 or MK16. This leads to very few rifles on the civilian market for sale. Very few rifles with a profit that has to be recovered means a higher cost to dealers/distributors (however they are handling sales) and therefore higher MSRP since the middle man has to make his profit. Add to that an incredible demand and suddenly you've got a very expensive rifle. The Bushmaster ACR should not be as big of a problem IF the division of labor between Remington and Bushmaster is such that even if the ACR wins some DOD contract that the same production line is not being used to produce both the mil contract rifles and civilian market rifles. IF there is no mil contract for the ACR then they can dedicate themselves entirely to civilian/leo production and should be able to crank out ACRs in larger numbers than FNH currently does with their SCAR 16s. That should mean a lower MSRP for the ACR than the SCAR. *PS: If any SCAR production is taking place over seas (Barrel and Receiver would have to be made here along with other parts to fit 922R requirements) then you're adding in a weak dollar and the high cost of European Labor and import. |
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http://www.theplaceholder.com/forums/imagehosting/544a4541b18397f.jpg My precious!!! I have over 1K through mine and I love it, Hell I got a better group out of it last week at 100yds than my Rem 700 (yes the Remmy was having problems )And I didn't get to shoot it!
What's better, the ACR or the SCAR? I haven't shot the SCAR yet so I can't compare them. The ACR was nice and I'll buy one of those when they come out but I did like the bolt release on the ACR better but the SCAR was much quieter than the ACR suppressed. Ghetto, What do you attribute the sound difference to? Were they running the same suppressors? Is the ACR louder as a function of its moving parts? |
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http://www.theplaceholder.com/forums/imagehosting/544a4541b18397f.jpg My precious!!! I have over 1K through mine and I love it, Hell I got a better group out of it last week at 100yds than my Rem 700 (yes the Remmy was having problems )And I didn't get to shoot it!
What's better, the ACR or the SCAR? I haven't shot the SCAR yet so I can't compare them. The ACR was nice and I'll buy one of those when they come out but I did like the bolt release on the ACR better but the SCAR was much quieter than the ACR suppressed. Ghetto, What do you attribute the sound difference to? Were they running the same suppressors? Is the ACR louder as a function of its moving parts? Same suppresor, some one there said that the gas was still supersonic when it exited the ACR where as it wasn't on the SCAR? No proof just what some guy said. Here's me with an ACR and M4-2K http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jce-mPflDjo ..and my SCAR with a M4-2K, for whatever reason the gun didn't like the Lancer mag? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1L2XuYfswg |
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Needs to be an ultimate show down. ACR SCAR XCR All tested until failure and everything carefully recorded in terms of accuracy and so forth. Be really nice to see a show down between all three that was more than just a chart of features. That would be awesome!!!! How much is the XCR going for right now? |
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Magpul has stated in the past that the gas piston system is similar to the XM8's and if that's the case it's a very good thing. The SCAR we know beat out the HK416 and the M4 in the U.S. Army Dust Test, but the XM8 was the ultimate winner. If the ACR's operating system can perform exactly as the the XM8's it would be very nice, but I think that's going to be a stretch since they can't exactly copy it 1:1. The SCAR's performance was impressive though when you see it had 4 times fewer stoppages than the M4 in a sandy environment. That's a life saving difference.
I would love to see an ACR that was as caliber modular as the XCR, had the same parts compatibility with a 7.62NATO as the SCAR, and had the reliability of the XM8. That would be a rifle ZEN. |
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I paid a little over $2k for my LWRC M6A2...a $2-2.5k price tag on the SCAR would seem fair to me. I want one really bad hope the price drops more with time! I almost bought a LWRC before I bought my scar. I'd still like to have one, they're damn nice rifles. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Quoted: Quoted: They're expensive for two related reasons. Because they can. And because they can't sell something to the public for less than they sell to the gov't. They want to keep prices high to the gov/mil, so civilian market prices will be correspondingly higher. Bingo! That's why you pay so much of optics, too. |
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They're expensive for two related reasons. Because they can. And because they can't sell something to the public for less than they sell to the gov't. They want to keep prices high to the gov/mil, so civilian market prices will be correspondingly higher. Bingo! That's why you pay so much of optics, too. I understand about the optics because you actually get the exact same thing the military uses. The SCAR 16S is different enough from the actual SCAR (not select fire, non-interchangeable uppers and lowers) that it should be (in my opinion) exempt. |
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Magpul has stated in the past that the gas piston system is similar to the XM8's and if that's the case it's a very good thing. The SCAR we know beat out the HK416 and the M4 in the U.S. Army Dust Test, but the XM8 was the ultimate winner. If the ACR's operating system can perform exactly as the the XM8's it would be very nice, but I think that's going to be a stretch since they can't exactly copy it 1:1. The SCAR's performance was impressive though when you see it had 4 times fewer stoppages than the M4 in a sandy environment. That's a life saving difference. I would love to see an ACR that was as caliber modular as the XCR, had the same parts compatibility with a 7.62NATO as the SCAR, and had the reliability of the XM8. That would be a rifle ZEN. IMAO, the XM8 only won because it wasn't stuck with the shitty STANAG mag. |
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i don't know...i still love the M4/M16 Oh, so do I! I've got three right now.... and I don't know if any of these new rifles are "better" I just like guns, and learning about different models. Do I think the SCAR is "better" than the M16/AR15? Not currently..... the military uses the crap out of their rifles until the finish is silver and dents and scratches are the camo on the gun, then they use it for another 5 to 10 years. Not to mention some of the rifles are not as upgraded as much as some here in ARFCOMM are. Plus their guns aren't always taken care of. I still think for the time being the M16/AR15 set the standard that these other manufacturers are trying to emulate and make better. If you look at the lower for the ACR or SCAR, or XCR, they are all very similar to the M16/AR15.... and for a good reason, it is very ergonomic (well for right handers), and they take the good things the M16/AR15 has to offer and try to make them better. I think the Military would be best with a higher tech, upgraded M4 (modular upper, ff hg's, gas piston system, front and rear buis, something like that.) than a totally new rifle, because of the M16/AR15's accuracy, dependability, ergonomics, amount of accessories/ ability to change/customize/ and add things to it (ie modularness), and its battle proven. but then again I've never shot the SCAR, or ACR. |
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i don't know...i still love the M4/M16 Oh, so do I! I've got three right now.... and I don't know if any of these new rifles are "better" I just like guns, and learning about different models. Do I think the SCAR is "better" than the M16/AR15? Not currently..... the military uses the crap out of their rifles until the finish is silver and dents and scratches are the camo on the gun, then they use it for another 5 to 10 years. Not to mention some of the rifles are not as upgraded as much as some here in ARFCOMM are. Plus their guns aren't always taken care of. I still think for the time being the M16/AR15 set the standard that these other manufacturers are trying to emulate and make better. If you look at the lower for the ACR or SCAR, or XCR, they are all very similar to the M16/AR15.... and for a good reason, it is very ergonomic (well for right handers), and they take the good things the M16/AR15 has to offer and try to make them better. I think the Military would be best with a higher tech, upgraded M4 (modular upper, ff hg's, gas piston system, front and rear buis, something like that.) than a totally new rifle, because of the M16/AR15's accuracy, dependability, ergonomics, amount of accessories/ ability to change/customize/ and add things to it (ie modularness), and its battle proven. but then again I've never shot the SCAR, or ACR. You realize that by upgrading with certain technologies you affect accuracy, dependability, ergonomics, etc... At a certain point it's better to start from scratch than upgrade old technology. I love the AR system, but i think at a certain point, "upgrading" can only lead so far. |
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Quoted: I was at a gun show today and saw several FN Scar's (three standards and one LB) all going for $2999. I didn't even know they were out yet! I haven't even seen a person owning one in ARFCOMM Wow, I mean its a pretty cool rifle, and I've heard great things about it... but 3 g's for a 223? damn, even for a new release thats a lot!!! Has anyone heard if the US special ops units are using them yet? I saw an article a year ago or so saying that some units were going to the scar when it came out. anyone see any lower prices? You obviously don't go into GD much Ghetto bought one for some ridiculous sum. I think it was 5k and then pimped that thing like there was no tomorrow. He had it worked into just about any picture he posted in GD But yeah, that's pretty much the going price. Meh, I would rather have two of the new STG Augs ETA: I see that ghetto has blessed this thread with his presence |
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I was at a gun show today and saw several FN Scar's (three standards and one LB) all going for $2999.
I didn't even know they were out yet! I haven't even seen a person owning one in ARFCOMM
Wow, I mean its a pretty cool rifle, and I've heard great things about it... but 3 g's for a 223? damn, even for a new release thats a lot!!! Has anyone heard if the US special ops units are using them yet? I saw an article a year ago or so saying that some units were going to the scar when it came out. anyone see any lower prices? You obviously don't go into GD much Ghetto bought one for some ridiculous sum. I think it was 5k and then pimped that thing like there was no tomorrow. He had it worked into just about any picture he posted in GD
But yeah, that's pretty much the going price. Meh, I would rather have two of the new STG Augs ETA: I see that ghetto has blessed this thread with his presence I paid $2500 for mine back in Feb. but didn't get it until June. After the Acog, blackout, M3X, TG VFG, MS2 etc.. now it's close to $5K
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