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Posted: 7/12/2008 1:02:59 PM EDT
| Does anybody know were i can buy these in 9mm, or if they make something equivalent to them? |
Well, Winchest doesn't make "the" Black Talons anymore, but they do make a very similiar and some may argue better rounds with the same 'petals of death" expansion called Winchest Ranger T-series. If you want the original Black Talons you'll have to find someone who is a private seller (ie individual) who is selling like on the equipment exchange. If you just want to have teh rounds for the sake of self-defense get the Ranger T. The best bet is to keep watching over under the "Handgun" forum here under "Ammunition." A member with the screen name "hotpig" gets his hands on them whenever Winchester releases enough of them. Right now though I'm not aware of any dealer that has them in stock as they are very popular. Winchester sort of self-restricts to LEO sales of them, but they don't enforce any restriction on dealers to sell them to civilians. You find any let me know. 
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I have some I would sell if you are interested in the originals as collector items or to be able to say you have the real thing... If you are primarily interested in the application of BT's for their intended purpose, there are probably much better choices like Golden Sabers, Hornady TAP's, Ranger T's etc. BT's have a bad rep here because the marketing made them scarier than they are and the Anti- glommed onto them as "especially deadly". |
Hahahah. To OP: Go to your local gun shop and ask if they have Ranger STX. If not have them order it for you. Buy yourself a black marker. There you have it an improve version of Black Talon. BTW the black marker work on all calibers and makes. Black Talon isn't special and the liberal MSM can't be trusted to tell the truth. They made something out of nothing. |
You are confused/mistaken. Ordering a box of "SXT"s and coloring them black is a far cry from the performance of an original "Black Talon". The belief that the "SXT" and "Black Talon" are identical is gun-commando lore at its finest. The confusion comes,I believe, from Winchester's use of the Supreme Expansion Technology acronym, SXT on the "Black Talon" and Ranger T packaging. To compound the issue further, Winchester currently sells a line of botique boxed "personal defense" JHP's called the SXT. With the exception of "SXT" written on the packaging and the manufacture, the contemporary SXT and Black Talon have nothing in common. They are two completely idendependant designs and the new Ranger T is an even further departure. The contemporary SXT is inferior to the WWB JHP's which are based of of the Silvertip in 115grn loadings and the superb Olin Super Mach in 147grn loads. Unless you are a collector or retard, there is no reason to pay a premium to purchase Black Talons. At the time, they were an excellent JHP that penerated and expanded well. However, JHP technology has come a long way and superior loads can be had for less money and effort. A properly selected Remington Golden Sabre will offer identical/superior performance, if you select a proper load for a given caliber. Better yet are the Barnes DPX, Federal HST, Winchester Ranger T and Speer Gold Dot. Any of these loads provides significantly better performance than the Black Talon and is more availible and more researched/tested. Modern bullets are much more capable and reliable than thier older generation counterparts. The Black Talon is not some mythacal Armor Piercing/Unincorn-slaying JHP that was banned because it was uber-effective. This just isn't the case...Its only marginally more effective in certain aspects than the Hydrashok or other contemporary loads. Other more availible loads provide vastly superior performance. An example, the Black Talon is a 1986 Chevy IROC Camaro with a 5.0 TPI and the Ranger T/Gold Dot/HST is a 2002 Camaro SS with an LS1. Both are Camaros, but the newer technology adds alot of performance that the older tech can't match, no matter how cool it was at the time. Black Talons are for collectors and noobs only. |
Very well put. |
Absolutely not. They are two different JHP designs. Winchester is apparently still hung over from the "Black Talon fiasco", which explains why thier JHP sold to civilians is essentially non-functional. It has a minimal ammount of development, which leads to a minimal amount of performance. It exists for buyers who don't know any better and think they are getting a "Black Talon". The Winchester SXT is probably one of the worst JHP's that a major ammo maker offers. The have the means to make one of the finest JHP's availible as demonstrated by the Ranger T, yet they lack the political will to offer a capable JHP for civilian sale. The fact that anyone could ever think a JHP was a party to a massacre is redonkulous. If Colin Ferguson shot people in the face with a FMJ, would they be any less dead? If crusaders want to ban a bullet type, ban FMJ's. They present a much larger risk than good quality JHP's. If these "North O" types were using Corbon 115grn Sierra JHP's or even older Black Talons on thier drive-bys, a house might offer you a good deal of protection. Not so with FMJ's.... SXT's are a commercial JHP designed to swindle the ill-informed and give gun store commandos more fodder for thier lunacy. The best commonly availible Winchester JHP is hardly the SXT, but rather those sold under the guise of the White Box. In 9mm, the lighter loads use the Silver Tip JHP while the 147grn JHP uses the Olin Super Match. At the time, the OSM was among the best JHP's availible. Its accuracy and terminal ballistics were excellent. Which is why US SOCOM used the shit out of them...As did LE agencies. WWB JHP's are vastly superior to the commercial SXT line. |
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Try gunbroker.com I bought some at a gun show, payed $40 for 20rds of 9mm  dont carry them but have them for "collecting purposes" (if you want to call it that )
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