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Posted: 8/4/2007 7:52:41 PM EDT
| I read the Masada is expected to be released in the first quarter of 2008 but I've yet to hear anything about pricing. Anyone have any info? |
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Word is around or less than $1,500.00, but who the heck knows for sure at this point? I doubt Magpul themselves could give you a firm answer right now as they are still a ways off from announcing a release. I'd also like to know how long after release of the 5.56mm they'll come out with the the conversion for 6.8 SPC and 7.62x39mm? Plus, I'm curious to see what they'll be charging for those conversion kits? If the Robinson XCR is any preview or comparison the conversion kits should be around the $500.00+ mark and will probably take a year or more after rlease to come out. I'd also like to know whether the good folks at MAGPUL have made up their minds yet about whether there will be a "for sure" 7.62x51 (.308) conversion available? Right now I'd have to say I'd rather have the SCAR L that will convert into a 7.62x51mm SCAR H even though the SCAR lacks a lot of the Masada's features. |
From what I understand both the SCAR-L and the Masada cannot accommodate the 7.62x51 round and would necessitate a different receiver amongst other parts. I believe the SCAR-L cannot be converted into the SCAR-H. |
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SCAR L 5.56x45mm shares 90% of its parts in common with the SCAR H 7.62x51mm. That means I only have to purchase those different 10% of parts to convert my SCAR L to a SCAR H and thats why the firearm is "modular." So, with the SCAR I get two rifles in one package for less than the price of purchasing two seperate rifles. |
It shouldn't be too bad price wise. I think it will be much closer to $1,500 than $2,000. They are going with AR barrels and trigger groups so that will cut costs. From what Magpul has been saying they have also designed the rifle with production costs in mind so they should be able to turn them out in the $1,500.00 range I hope. |
Aren't the upper/lower receivers for the SCAR the big differentiators though? The lowers are different, and at least the ejection port size on the upper is different. Will a SCAR-L lower fit a SCAR-H upper? Do we even know yet? It might be 10% of the parts are different, but that 10% probably makes up 80% of the cost! 
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Without being able to use the sustained fire abilities of the SCAR, and since I'll probably never take a barrel near it's service life without first being unhappy with it's length, accuracy, color, or something else retarded... I don't see why the SCAR would be worth that much to an ordinary civilian shooter, at all. The Masada, if it remains under $1500, has plenty of possibilites for trendy gun owners as well as owners with a $2500 budget who want the functionality of a rifle AND carbine in the same package. The Masada is more attractive, I don't think anybody can reason against that, and for ergonmics freaks, the Magpul name says it all right there. |
Nice, arent they? I cant wait for them to come out..........I am leaning really hard toward the SCAR, but we shall see
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Well, the cream will rise to the top. Here is the thing about the SCAR though it will probably be ready from the day they release it to have the ability to convert from 5.56x45mm to 6.8, 7.62x39, or 7.62x51 because all of those are being tested and evaluated by SOCOM right now. Whereas with the Masada you'll get the 5.56x45mm version and then have to wait months and months for the coversion kits. I do think that the Masada will have the advantage in both ergonomics, price, and features, BUT the SCAR is going to be a hard rifle to beat in terms of performance and reliability with all the testing and redesign works that it has been going through. The final gen SCAR is going to be one tough SOB. Lets also not forget the Robinson XCR that will more than likely beat both to market with ALL of its conversion kits ready to go for purchase and months of reviews and information out there for the consumer. Of course, like the Magpul the XCR has no 7.62x51mm coversion currently. Why am I so hung uo on that 7.62x51mm option? Well, I like to travel and I hike in places with Bears so its nice to have a .308 at hand and it would be great if after my wilderness trek I could convert it back to a 5.56x45mm for home defense. The conversion to a 7.62x39mm is nice, but I'm not a big fan of that caliber and would really like to have a 7.62x51mm jump as an option. |
The SCAR exists in -L & -H variants for a reason. The -L is a 5.56/6.8 cal package & can't be converted to run the -H variant calibers (Russian 7.62/NATO 7.62). The noticable discerning feature is the ejection port (larger on the -H) & also the shape of the case deflector. I've heard that the upper receiver profiles (thickness, length, etc.) are otherwise similar. And while the -H might theoretically be able run all the different calibers, I also suspect that the dimensions where the upper mates to the lower are a little different between them, due to the magazine well size associated w/ the -L & -H lowers to accomodate their respective caliber ranges. In any case, the -L & -H are not cross-compatible enough for either to uniquely run the full range of ammo. Each has its respective compatible range of ammo calibers. |
I think that is similar to the way the XCR handles 7.62 NATO. The upper is built stong enough for .308 but a 5.56 upper will not fire .308. The .308 upper has a wider ejection port and some other minor changes. Obviously the lower is different as well. I'm not really interested in a 5.56 SCAR. I already have a 5.56 XCR and a few AR15's. Another STANAG 5.56 gun isnt all that interesting to me. |
| Looking forward to both the Masada and SCAR myself. Only thing I am concerned with is when the SCAR might become available. I've heard it could be another 2+ years before FN considers making them for the civilian market. If we lose the elections in 08 then I don't think we will ever have a chance to own a SCAR. |
The articles I have seen printed on the SCAR suggest that 90% of the SCAR L has parts in common with the SCAR H. This was the key focus of the program afterall to lessen the amount of rifles and rifle parts that needed to be carried into the field with SOCOM units in addition to ease in conversion in the field. How large those parts are and how expensive I have no clue. I do know that the SCAR L breaks down into five stages and that an SCAR H stock can be used with a SCAR L, but I don't think that the SCAR L stock can be used with the SCAR H.  Of course, I have not seen the SCAR L and H long enough in person or really had a change to play with either at this point and have to go on hearsay. Going from assault rifle calibers to battle rifle calibers all in one platform that functions the same in either caliber and enjoys the same ergonomics would be awesome. |
I e-mailed FN about that, and the guy who replied stated next year, maybe 3rd quarter............who knows, but I do hope they get it in our hands before then.......but I will take either one
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The above pics of the MASADA and SCAR side by side makes me think the masada looks just like a carbon copy, except with a plastic lower receiver & handguards. The buttstock alone is nearly identical. |
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Some Random Facts/Clearing up Misconceptions: The SCAR-L and SCAR-H do NOT functionally share 90% parts commonality. The SCAR-H will support the 7.62N and 7.62x39R. The SCAR-L will not. The M4 receiver will accomodate 7.62N pressure ammunition. There's nothing spectacular about that. The Masada operating system is nothing like that of the SCAR. The SCAR draws its lineage from the Johnson tappet system, versus the Masada with its Stoner piston derivative. The Masada buttstock operates in a different manner than the SCAR stock. MagPul also set the precedent for the styling of the stock, prior to the SCAR program even being conceived. The SCAR uses an extruded 6061T6 upper receiver. The Masada uses a box type 7075T6 upper receiver. The SCAR uses a reciprocating charging handle. It will rip your fucking thumb off. They are two totally different systems that will be at two totally different price points. As to whether or not the Masada is worth more than the SCAR... It is to me. It offers more of what I want, and less of what I don't want. If I were looking for a fishing lure and not a rifle I'd choose the SCAR hands down. |
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There are some exceptions. Personally I'm sold on the Masada, just waiting patiently....... |
I try not to say this very often, but +1 The only one of the three rifles mentioned that I haven't fired is the Masada... And I'm trying to fix that problem As a matter of fact, a certain ARFCom member will reap the benefit of me 'firing' a few 416s next week, if you catch the drift.
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Well at least 1 or 2 of you guys can have to claim a partially informed opinion. That was more than I expected... I would still argue that 99% of the people are towing the line on a rifle that they have never shot, much less handled in person. I suspect about the best most folks have done was fondled them at SHOT. Treeto and Cap'n Crunch, I would be very curious to hear and contracst/comparison mini review from both of you. A lot of time it is hard to separate the wheat form the chaff in this sort of thread, if you know what I mean... |
is there a post on this site anywhere that someone actually shot this thing and posted a report?? some pics maybe?? |
Shhhhhh. You're spoiling the fantasy.  Let the people have their dreams.  There'll be time to evaluate exactly how it performs when it comes out. The anticipation and dreaming about getting something new is always the funnest part. |
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All I know is what I have read from other websites that claim to have information either from those involved with the project or have been to demonstrations themselves. I cited my reference. The only thing I know about the Masada is what I have read here, at the Magpul website, and the bits and pieces I have read throughout the internet. The thing that I am fairly certain of is that the SCAR will have a 7.62x51mm "H" version that is designed to be "modular" and convert to a 5.56x45mm "L" version. I am also fairly certain that the Masada so far has the same coversion options as the XCR (will have) and that there is no announced 7.62x51mm conversion for the Masada yet. So from a caliber conversion stand point the SCAR seems like the better rifle. However, from a modular standpoint the Masada seems like a nice deal as it has a toolless quick change barrel and uses easy to find/cheap to purchase AR barrels and it would appear that the caliber conversions available may be easier to do than other rifles. The Masada looks very light weight and seems very well thought out. It will most likely be priced better than the SCAR and at least priced close to the XCR. I'm also guessing here, but I think it seems logical that the XCR will probably have its caliber conversion available long before the Masada, which has yet to be released. In short, I'm trying to justify the Masada vs. spending more for a SCAR or spending probably less for an XCR. Of course, I know that at this point there is a lot of guessing here and unknowns, BUT I enjoy talking about new rifles and thinking about them. I also enjoy being able to take a direction with my limited funds by gathering all the information I can. |
Glad to see one of my pics still making the rounds. And yeah, I mean, its not like that thing actually cost anything to manufacture. I mean, precision molds are a dime a dozen and you could basically do the same thing in your backyard with some molds made from modeling clay and a camp fire. Not to mention the boxed aluminum upper and stainless steel bearing rails.... Those are doable in the garage in about 15 minutes. And the design and engineering for it.....bah, 11th grade shop level no doubt. |
You'll have a non-functional gun. The barrel will need the guide collar press fit on, and it doesnt use a standard AR bolt. |
Get in line bucko!  When I sit in a quiet room long enough, I can still remember the feel on the Masada in my hands.......
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I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea or anything... I actually like the SCAR. For my applications, however, the Masada will be a better fit. That's not saying anything, other than I'll probably buy a few SCAR's to throw in assorted vehicles and get a Post86 gun to demo/mule around. With the projected price point that FN is supposedly trying to hit... It'll be hard for most folks to NOT buy one. And as an aside... Are you guys sure you're hearing these dates correctly? The date that I've heard thrown around is that they should be shipping VERY soon after SHOT '08, same as the Masada. As to the Masada pricing, I'd guess $1500 or thereabouts. That's just a WAG, though. |
| I have learned my lesson when it comes to buying a brand new product. Even if a manufacturer has excellent customer service, I don't want to deal with customer service. It seems cool but that's where it ends, let me know when these have been out and tested and reviewed by more then the manufacturer, and firearm magazines. A review by someone who has fired more then 500 rounds would be nice also. |
Once again, the -L & -H are not cross-caliber convertible. The -L handles 5.56 (std) & 6.8 (potentially) chores while the -H does 7.62x39 & 7.62x51 (std) loads. Where did you hear otherwise? I wish havoc (Clint L.) would post on here, but he probably got sick of getting lectures from outsiders w/ half-baked "knowledge" & just left disgust. Haven't seen him post in some time. |
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