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Posted: 11/18/2006 9:04:08 AM EDT
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Howdy, I am looking at *finally* picking up a high quality .223 rifle for shooting of various kinds and the simple pleasure of owning a military style weapon. I figure that the .223 is rather like the 9mm. Very effective when you hit what you are aiming at and use a good hollowpoint/soft point loading. Before anyone starts flaming I am a big fan of the 9mm so I am not saying that this is a bad thing. My questions are thus= 1. How does .223 work against obstacles like car doors, windows, doors, dry wall and other things it might be nice to be able to shoot through. 2. How is the variety of ammunition available for the loading? I like choices. 3. Is it really that much cheaper than .308? I know much more about .308 but also want a rifle I can shoot for cheap because the more I personally practice the more effective it will be. The reason I like 9mm is because I don't reload and can readily afford to practice often. That's about the extent of it. Any other pertinent facts would be much appreciated. I have my eye on a few rifles that utilize AR mags so I will have all kinds of choices as far as mags go. |
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Penetration - depends on what round you are shooting. None are as good as .308 but are better than handguns rounds. See Box O' Truth. Ammo variety - lots of bullet weights (40-90g) and plenty of bullet designs (military, varmint, medium game, competition, etc). Cheaper than .308 - Yes but it varies how much. My experience is it's usually about $2-$3 a box less but it also is more readily available than mil-surp .308. Commercial is a bigger difference in price on the low end. Hunting ammo is nearly the same price. |
start here, www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=208 which will lead you to this, www.ammo-oracle.com/ the latter link has info on EVERYTHING you ever wanted to know about the .223 Remington cartridge and it's milspec brother 5.56mm NATO. ar-jedi ETA you will also be very interested in www.theboxotruth.com/ specifically the following tests www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot1.htm www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot2.htm www.theboxotruth.com/docs/buickot4.htm ahh hell, just clink on EVERY link in the grey section at the top. fascinating reading. |
I love the Box o' Truth 
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This statement is correct. However, the key in this phrase is highlighted, "if". |
Umm you should shoot somewhere else besides a paper target range. Windows are not magical, drywall is not magical, car doors are not magical. It is a .223, very little mass that can b expected to penetrate much things, but not be expected to stay its course.
Umm lots of choices.
Yes, it is cheaper. By much. As for the poster who said it is as dangerous as a .30-06,  . You have got to be shitting me. That doesn't even make sense to me in the slightest. Now for a shor story. I was hunting elk one day, saw one, shot it, it died. I was in thick deadfall and was using a .270win. Upon further inspection, my bullet actually grazed one live pine tree taking about a clean 1" deep and 14" long groove out of the side of it, and hit some other branches on the way to the elk. I hit the elk right where I was aiming. So for someone to say the .223 could do that and hold its path and be as deadly IF it actually hit the elk is nuts. The .223 is what it is, and it is not as deadly as a .30-06 nor would I trust it to make a good shot through any debre. |
there is a point/counterpoint to every single one of these little stories... were you on the move because the elk were after you? were you carrying 210 rounds of .270win because there were lots more elk? were the elk shooting back at you to the point that reload time was critical? did you get more practice shooting elk with the .270win because it's inexpensive to shoot? ... (ps: it's ok; no one ever wins these arguments. every one is favor of a .30-ish caliber doesn't have/want to carry lots of it.) ar-jedi |
No, did the OP say anything about TEOTW?
Nope, the OP didn't say anything about TEOTW.
I already said it wasn't cheaper to shoot. |
Here's something very important: there is a difference between .223 and 5.56. The barrel will indicate what size chamber it is.
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Definately not true. A soft nose .308 or 30-06 will do way more damage than any .223. Considering that they pack more than twice the muzzle energy and nearly twice the frontal area that should be rather obvious. |
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Backstop I'm glad you mentioned this because I was at the range with my Rem 700 in .223 Rem and was fireing some of my military ammo(back when you could buy those tan plastic battle packs) . And I fired off one and then couldn't pull it back to eject it(slipped the extractor off the shell trying)I used a cleaning rod to punch the caseing out! Put a .223 Rem in and no problem,I mentioned this on other forums and everybody piped up saying they shoot 5.56X54 in theres all the time! But you know I used to oil my rifle barrel with a patch(chamber too)then dry patch it. But I never did dry patch or clean the chamber of oil,so maybe the oil in the chamber acted like a case lube and let the round expand too much! What do you think,I never tried it again with a clean (dry chamber) afraid to I quess! I did the same thing with my mod 99 a 7.62X51 would lock it up,but a .308Win would not. Anybody else think I may have had gun oil in my chambers,and this made the cartridges swell? I would like to think that my Sav 99 would shoot 7.62X51 as well as .308,and my Rem .223 would shoot 5.56X54 as well as .223 Rem. What say you? Bob 
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I gotta be honest Bobbyjack and say that I have never met, or talked with anyone that has seen, or even heard of anyone, shooting 556 in a 223. Maybe that 0.077 difference in leade caused the case to expand. Would make sense to me. You didn't say, but I'll assume the 556 slid into the chamber OK before firing, right? Did you mic/inspect the case after you got it out? I don't know how the oil would affect anything - I lightly oil then dry patch my barrels. Maybe somebody with more experience will chime in. |
I can't really speak to the .223/5.56 since both of the rifles I have in that chambering are AK's and easily handle military brass, but the Saiga is marked .223. My understanding is that this was mostly part of the ploy to get it into the country as a sporting rifle. I have shot 7.62x51 out of my Remington LTR and it eats it up just fine. I could be wrong, but I believe the difference is mostly a matter of chamber pressures. In .308/7.62 the commercial loadings generate more pressure and that's why you want to use caution when firing commercial loads out of a surplus rifle. In .223/5.56 it's the other way around. If it's chambered in 5.56 you should be able to shoot .223, but not necessarily vice versa. |
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