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Posted: 12/13/2002 11:40:00 AM EDT
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I have narrowed the choices down to three rifles which will be post ban and under 1000 dollars. It must be light, compact, reliable and lethal to 50m. My current 3 choices are: New SAR 2 (5.45mm) 14" barrel with AK74 brake (totalling 16") and Kobra optic. This is the heaviest and least expensive choice. 8.5lbs New AK102 (5.56mm)(SBR) 12.5" barrel with AK74 brake (14.5" total) and Kobra optic. 8.0 lbs Mid way in price and weight but most compact Used AR15 (5.56mm) 15" pencil barrel with A2 brake (total 16") A1 iron sights with Ashley big dot tritum front sight. 6.5lbs lbs Lightest no optics most expensive. |
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www.gibbsrifle.com/history.html Check out the No.7 carbine. $180.00, 12 shots, and .308 power. Best of all, it's not a semiauto, so after you've just wasted a street full of bangers, you can stand there with your best 'Joe Deer Hunter' look on your face when the cops show up. |
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Sounds like an old Dilbert cartoon: Wanted: Programmer Analyst with 12 years experience in embedded microcontroller applications. Applicant must also have a worked in the petroleum industry and have been with the company for at least 5 years. Applicant must be between 5'10 and 5'11, bald, and 190-200 pounds. Applicant must be named Frank. |
All bad choices! 1.You need something that looks PC, So if you have to use it you will not have to here the prosecutor tell the Jury how you used a "Machine Gun" on the Perp. 2.Trunks wrek havoc on firearm finishes, The SAR is blued & will rust overnight! 3.All to expensive. Get a $159 Siaga from CDNN or a used 12Gauge pump & have it Parked, Both will work very well & are inexpensive. |
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Of your listed choices, I'd go SAR-2. Just leave off the '74 type brake. Cuts about $90 or so off the cost, and on a trunk rifle that probably won't get much use (?) it's not necessary. Don't absolutely need an optic either, now the SAR will be pretty light and inexpensive. And as a trunk gun, it is subject a little higher risk of theft. So when Mr. Dumbass Thief tries to use the 'AK-47' ammo he bought from the pawnshop, he's screwed. |
| I currently own the SAR 2 and it is my trunk gun. Its starting to rust, its a little heavy and I was concerned about the effectiveness of the 5.45 round. If I decided to keep it Iwas just gonna have it parked and put the brake on for authenticities sake. I have a bad problem with modding my guns when I dont need to. |
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Man if you can get to your trunnk open it dig through to get your trunk gun out before I beat the CRAP outa ya with my PC alum base ball bat theeeen. It'd better be a shotgun of some sort ,slugs or buck,all better then any rifle in close and FAST.Like I've taught many home defense personel,EVERYBODY KNOWS THE SOUND OF A SHOTGUN {pump}being racked into operating modis. |
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Who cares how much it ways, the car caries the weight. How about a Postban car-15. Cheap and effective. The sights and ergonomics are a lot better than an AK. Dont waste your money on a tritium front sight. I had one, and it wasnt good except in early evening, and in daylight the blade was too wide, and it slowed me down. |
| My choice is a post ban AR with 16" barel/wilson brake. CAR stock permenatley in the 3rd position(almost all the way extended) with the A3 flattop and a BSA red dot. The whole set up cost me $530. Then throw in a few mags and ammo. Great at close range. At 25 yards rapid fire on 5 targets i can shoot about 2" centermass groups off-hand. |
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For me, for a semi auto trunk gun? Either an M1 Carbine (light, low recoil, easy to use, round's powerful enough to take down a deer, choice between 15 and 30 round mags..not the most accurate thing, but for all the wear and tear its gonna get, it'll still kick butt)... Or, an SKS carbine/paratrooper model (also light, 10 round fixed mag, that round will knock down most anything as well, and the bayonet might come in handy, you never know  )The SKS probably has a slight edge in toughness/ability to be seriously abused. I don't mean a folder SKS, I mean a short-barreled SKS, in case there's any misunderstanding :) Since you appear to want a 30 round mag in it...I guess my only suggestion would be the M1 Carbine, then.... But, that's just my opinion. Hey, what do I know... |
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I too have pondered this question many times. In this process I also quickly determined that I needed to add a few requirements. The thing that will keep jumping up to bite you is the durability of the finish when kept in such a hostile environment. I once left an SAR-1 in the trunk overnight and brought it inside the next day. The thing already was showing rust from one end to the other. Obviously this isn't acceptible so out goes the AK......at least the SAR types. So from that point forward I decided that any gun for trunk use must either have a very durable blue/matte/parkerized finish or be stainless. To me this spells out AR, Mini-14 or the Chinese SKS. I have carried all of these types for extended periods in the trunk without any problems as a test of their durability. Out of the bunch, the AR is probably the most accurate, packs readily available and reliable 20 and 30 rd US GI mags. And with mil-spec or the newer generation of match bullets, would appear to be very lethal with proper shot placement. You could probably find a nice Bushmaster 16" post-ban carbine for a decent price. Because of it's use as a trunk gun, I would probably pick the Bushy because of it's chrome-lined barrel. Otherwise I would go with a J&T kit to keep costs to a minimum. The Ruger Mini-14 stainless is a very durable gun. One of these with a synthetic stock and stainless/nickel PMI mags should take all sorts of conditions and remain rust free. We all know that the Mini-14 isn't a specatacularly accurate rifle, but for your requirements of 0-50 yards, it will be more than accurate enough. The biggest drawback is that mags for these rifles are pricey (if you get the good ones) but PMI blue can be had for about $39 each in 30 rounders. Just take care to make sure they don't rust on you. The stainless 30 rounders are about $10 higher per mag but probably worth it in the long run. And remember you can always carry extra ammo on strippers and charge with a Mini-14 guide, so a couple of good 30 round mags may be enough. These guns with proper mags such as factory or PMI are as reliable as anything can possibly be and can be abused and left dirty, still to function. And remember you can use hot mil-spec in the Mini's too....just like the Bushmaster. And to top it off, the Mini is more of a PC gun than the AR, AK, FAL, etc if that is important to you. The SKS is crude, ugly, awkward....and yet probably one of the most reliable combat carbines ever produced! Plus, they are dirt cheap which doesn't hurt any. They shoot 10 times which isn't spectacular but enough for most situations one could find themselves in. And besides, you can get a 20 pack of 10 round stripper clips for less that $10. Anymore I sometimes find myself attracted to such guns because I get so tired of trying to track down reliable hi-caps and the cost this adds to any gun. Again, the Chinese versions I have seen have a pretty durable finish and don't rust with any care at all. This might be an option for you though, only you can decide. And although you have stated that you want a semi-auto, I wouldn't completely rule out the Marlin 336 stainless 30-30. Great guns and nice power. Extra rounds can be carried in a nylon buttstock holder or tossed into your pockets loose. Again, no mags or stuff to buy. All of the above guns will get it done for you within your 50 yd requirement zone quite well. Heck, out to 50 yds even a good riot shotgun will be effective. I am building up one of those right now. Mine is just a standard 870 Express Magnum with 20" barrel and rifled sights. I am adding a Wilson Combat mag tube extension, Sure Fire forend w/ light and a Side Saddle for extra rounds. This will give me a day or night gun for use from 0-100 yds if needed. I plan to use it both for home defense and to toss in the runk when I choose to do so. I will have to constantly clean and maintain to keep it looking good, but I enjoy cleaning my guns and therefore isn't a problem. With Federal low recoil 00 buck, it will have potent close range punch. And the Federal Hydra-Shok low recoil slugs will give it that added range and punch if need be. Again, all are excellent choices and each has it's advantages. Just pick and choose what options are most important to YOU and act on it. And I just realize this will be my 1000th post here so I will now just sit back and shut the hell up finally! LOL. Hope this was helpful to you. |
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Trunk guns should be low cost, low maintenance, dependable and need to be reasonably accurate with std. iron sights. For defensive purposes the caliber should not over penetrate. Considering your posted criteria, the SAR 2 would be a good choice. Another idea would be the Ruger PC9 carbine, if you use a good ammo choice (Win. 127gr. +P+ for starters) this would certainly be adequate for most worst case scenarios. As previously mentioned, the M1 carbine isn't a bad choice either but I personally have some hesitations with the gun & caliber. Last on my list is a std. SKS, they are very reliable, can be reasonably accurate, spare ammo is cheap but quality defensive ammo should be kept in the gun so there is less risk of over penetration. The SKS would at least be cheap and a bit less to worry about if stolen. |
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As much as I'd just assume have something along the lines of aSAWwith a couple 200 round drums for my trunk gun...I mean after all my life and the lives of the people I love are the most valuable commodity I know. Sadly though, I'm gonna have to put my vote in for the Marlin or Winchester lever action. It's PC, accurate, leathal, reliable and is used for "sporting" purposes...And the reason you had it there was because you "hunt"...not because you wanted to "assault" someone. I know this sucks to read this, but we all know that's how the soccer mom filled jury is going to see it. Still would be cool to have a SAW in my trunk though...
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I think a Glock 35 (.40 cal w/long barrel and light trigger) and a couple of 15 round mags will handle most social situations. I don't have to get to my trunk, and I don't have to leave it in the veh. It's easy and unobtrusive to carry in and out of the house. I can hit people sized targets all day long at 50 yards, and the .40 165 gr gold dot expands well in gel after penetrating car doors or auto glass. Why do I need an SKS? |
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I already carry a pocket pistol and have a hicap 9mm for the car. I wanted a rifle to be able to penetrate an automobile, fire accurately to 50m and have a high capacity with fast follow up shots. I have selected a postban lightweight Bushmaster so I can keep the same manual of arms I am accustomed to. It may require a weekly lube to protect the barrel finish and a monthly dose of CLP on the bolt and carrier but it is the superior weapon in terms of weight (I drive a sports car and every pund is an issue) accuracy, speed, familiarity, ammo selection etc. I dont care what a court thinks about my rifle I wont be on trial if the shooting is justified in the state of Texas. I will be selling a decked out SAR2 and a M1 carbine to finance the rifle. I dont shoot those much anyway and I am begining to realise I have favorite guns and more does not = better. I will only own 8 guns when I am done 4 pistols and 4 long guns. |
A marine version of the Mossburg or Winchester would work well, too. Reliable, durable, lots of knockdown power, and rust resistant. Plus, as JPC put it: EVERYBODY KNOWS THE SOUND OF A SHOTGUN |
Yep. A Parkerized Mosseberg 590A1 military pump or a Parkerized Rem 870 Police. Marine finish would add a touch of corrosion protection. Load with 00 Buck/slugs and you'll be right. Throw on an essential Surefire dedicated weapon light housing and your more than prepared. Hell throw on a six round side saddle and you've got it made. I keep either in my trunk.  Emphasis on SUREFIRE DEDICATED WEAPONS LIGHT- Since most conflicts occur in low light, you can identify to threat before turning his chest into cherry pie. |
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