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Posted: 12/5/2002 8:12:05 PM EDT
Well? 
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OK, I'll take a bite. .40 vs what. Being a 40 kinda guy; I like it. Glock 27, 23, 22. Like my defense gun cals to start with .4? Like a good 1911 style too. Tricked out Springfield 1911; and being a Glock man G30. AS A CALIBER; Like the almost .45 balistics in a lite-wt package. |
IMHO the 40S&W simply doesn't have as large a safety margin as any other cartridge I know of. If you look, for example, at the pressure vs. setback tables for the 40S&W you'll see it forms a classic J curve, pretty level and then near straight up. As long as everything goes right it's fine but throw in any of the possible issues like setback, fouling, too tight or too loose a crimp, over charging... and the result is KaBoom. Since I didn't see where it offered me much of an advantage over 9mm, 45acp, 380, 38Spl or 357Mag it just didn't seem to be worth the risk. Lots of people like it and that's fine. Just didn't make good sense to me. |
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The pressure problems are only with the 180gr cartridges... .40 Should not be fired with it, it has almost no advantage over lighter bullets! It was made for 10mm, with larger case capacity, SO less pressure. It usually Kbs with the 180s when the OAL has been shortened by chambering and re-chambering, so don't do it! I have no idea why everyone has such a woody for the 10mm, I can get .40 for 7.00 a box. Less if I look around hard enough... What do you pay for yours? Where can you buy it? Damn near nowhere around here. It's only going to become more expensive and scarce in the future... .40 has a future to it. ALOT of agencies and police. departments are adopting it. How many pistols are offered in 10mm? Not very many. Oh, IMHO Jason |
Ballistics,Ballistics,Ballistics. From Pro Load,180 gr Gold Dot Hollow Point.... 40SW--970fps/376ft/lbs 10mm--1200fps/575ft/lbs 45auto--1050fps/453ft/lbs From Corbon, 165gr JHP.... 40sw--1150fps/484ft/lbs 10mm--1250fps/573ft/lbs 45auto--1250fps/573ft/lbs |
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If you compare cartriges with the same bullet weight, of course the ones with the larger cases will win. The 180gr chart at the top proves my point about the 180 for .40 though... I'm going to compare Federal's Hydra-Shok ballistics for each cartrige using it's best performing load for each. .40 155gr velocity - 1140 energy - 445 10mm has only one load... 10mm 180gr velocity - 1030 energy - 425 Ok. I just wasted my time and proved nothing. 10mm does not have a large selection of cartriges to compare. So, I'll just leave it at this Caliber selection is a really personal thing. You and I both chose which we thought was best, personally I think that the slightly better ballistics of 10mm over .40 don't make up for it's price, and unavailability. Jason [Edited to say: I'm only going to put my foot HALFWAY into my mouth.] |
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.40 to me is neither fish nor fowel. First off, without access to high caps, I don't see any gain for buying a full size handgun in other than .45 or maybe 10mm if you can afford it. .40 ballistics only approximate .45, without the added safety factor of the .05in greater cookie cutter effect when the JHPs dont work as designed. The ammo also costs about the same, sometimes even slightly more, than .45. 9mms are both cheaper to shoot and allow you to build a significantly smaller gun that will still carry a legal 10 rounds. When the JHPs work as designed, 9mm is as good as either .40 or .45. When they dont they are still better than a .380 or no gun at all. With high caps available. .40 still doesnt fit. 9mm's can still be smaller or hold more rounds. The more rounds you can carry the less you have to worry about their individual effectiveness-that is how 9mm SMGs have survived this long. And, unless you are a individual with small hands, it is possible in full size pistols to build a high cap .45 holding usually just 2 rounds less- or, for that matter,a 10mm that holds the same number of rounds as a .40, but much more powerful. The scarcity of 10mm today has mostly to do with the 94' Crime Bill and the ban on high caps. The G20 would only been the first of a wave of high cap 10's. And in 04' I think you will see the 10 come back, as well as a LOT more high cap .45's-hopefully the various makers will come to a standard now on a double stack 1911 mag pattern. And that will be bad for the .40S&W and also probably for the .357Sig unless it can show it can do something unique. This is not the first time this has happened. Anyone remember .38/40 WCF? It was also a .400 bore-in spite of its name-and it also suffered a identity crisis sqeezed between .45 Colt-which had cheep goverment ammo-and .44/40 which had a 5 year head start as the original caliber of the most popular rifle in the world the 1873 Winchester. |
In 10mm, Federal Hydra Shok is downloaded to .40 specs.It's probably one of the weakest commercial 10mm loads out there.I personally don't need a hundred different choices in a caliber.Just give me 2 or 3 good choices.Pro Load and Corbon do that for me. Maybe some people think we 10mm fans are such fanatics is because we hate to see such a fine round get trashed by the Gun Writer Gods.They put out the word 10 years ago that the 10mm had to much kick.Probably only 10% of handgun owners actually look at ballistics and take time to shoot a caliber they are interested in.The other 90% just go by what the Gun Writer Gods say. Unfortunately the sales to that 90% is what drives the market.Manufactores are going to make a lot more money targeting what the 90% want rather than the 10%.The 40sw is a good round.If I couldn't have a 10mm or 45acp I would feel comfortable with a 40sw.Now a 9mm...I wouldn't feel confident with that.Anyway,it's nice we can agree to disagree. |
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You guys can choose what you like. I prefer the time honored and effective classic known as the .45 ACP. Here, for your enjoyment, check this out: www.sscmagnum.de/Video/023_frontal_flinte.mpeg And this: (.50BMG vs. running lawnmower!) www.sscmagnum.de/Video/50BMG-Rasenmaeherbeschuss.mpeg And this: www.bsg-dornier.de/schiessen/index.html?/schiessen/filme/filme.htm CJ |
Cool links! 
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If I could find the article about the Border Patrol using the .40 S&W for reasons of better penetration of auto body and auto glass, I'd post where it was I read it. It'll take a while to find it. I think it was a Guns&Ammo issue from a few years ago. The gist of the article was that the Border Patrol picked the .40 because it outpenetrated the 9mm and the .45. That's why I call it the .40 Sheetmetal & Windshield ... |
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For the .40 crowd (and anti_crowd) check this out: www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=77a26545e530ce993e1684ba9f98306f&threadid=22681 G35 was able to handload 135gr Sierra JHP to over 1600 fps in a Glock 35, but found optimal performance was around 1485. (he's got gel pics too!) |
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My first true handgun love was the 1911, which at the time was offered in .38 super and .45 acp (later SA made a model in 9mm and Colt had 10mm). Then about five years ago my buddy talked me into buying a Glock G22, because he could get a deal on them if he bought five. I wasn't to keen on it at the time, but he assured me if I bought it and didn't like it, it could be resold at a profit. The Glock and .40 cal sorta grew on me. I can save on ammo costs by buying the police reloads, which are half the cost of .45's. I have heard stories about .40 guns (Glocks) blowing up, but have had only the best of performance with mine. If I had to chose a calibre, it would be .357 mag. fired from a revolver. OSA |
This just reinforces my point about the 10mm.This guy is just loading a .40 to 10mm specs. |
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I have a thommy ten,and I also have an oly match 40 barrel,a colt .45acp barrel,slide and recoil sring! So I changed out my 10mm barrel for the 40,but forgot and left the 10mm recoil spring in(should have put the .45 spring in) as I don't have a 40 recoil spring! You guessed it the gun would fire,but the 40 cartridge didn't have enough umph to over come the heavier 10mm spring,and I would get stove-pipes! The weaker .45 spring would work,but I really need to get a 40 spring. I like .45 acp,the 40 is okay,but really like the 10mm. To fire the .45 acp I have to change out the ejector to work with the .45 slide. Bob
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| I've never been that excited by 40s and haven't shot them a lot, but I was shooting with a friend recently who has a one of those little Beretta 40s and he was having troubles hitting with it (and shot okay w/a larger Glock 9mm). I didn't really have any problems with it, but has anyone found this to be a tough round for newbies to master? I think it had more to do with the short sight radius and other factors of that Beretta Anyway the recoil did not seem bad, more than 9, but not a big deal even in a small pistol. |
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If it was DAO then I can see where he would have trouble,(sold my KEL tec p-40 just for that reason) A really great gun for up close and personal(but just what if you had to shoot a little further than ten feet). Shot at a rabbit at about ten feet,threw dirt all around it and he ran off,the girls all said good shooting you were just trying to scare it off right? Duh Yeah.... Not.. He ran out of the garden looking over his shoulder with that(I'll be back you no shooting SOB). So what I find is that DAO ,dosen't equate with what I want DOA! Bob
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