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Posted: 3/13/2002 4:09:28 PM EDT
I just started looking into ARs and was thinking one might make a fun predator hunting rig. I handled one of the varmit types for the first time the other day and figured out they are a lot heavier than I want to lug around in the woods. What kind AR upper would be good for that and general shooting and what kind of realistic accuracy could I expect from a scoped version? I am probably leaning toward a flat top of some sort. Thanks
Chert
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 7:15:27 PM EDT
You are leaning towards i want a bmg-50 but don't want the weight, if you get a bull barrel on your varmit rifle you are going to have to suffer the weight! thats what they make slings for! You are usally set up in a known path of ambush any way so why worry about the weight? But you can buy many configs of uppers that will give you the range you need for varmits as well as target,but you will have to give up things like crome linded barrels pertaining to (barrel life) as to accuracy (non chromed barrel).. so in some bull barrels you would get SS (stainless steel) less accurate (than non SS) more durable. So if you want only a varmit rifle that you are going to use only for that (how many times are you going to shoot it) then get it for only that use! you can allways get another upper to use for other shooting! just a thought bob cole
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 7:28:00 PM EDT
You want to know what kind of accuracy you can realistically expect? Well, I'll tell you what my rifles do.

I handload match grade ammo, first. Not counting the permanent investment in my loading equipment, I load this ammo for about what you'd pay for the same amount of Winchester white box Q3131 ammo. (.223/5.56 caliber.)

My rifles both have CHROMED chambers and bores. One has a Bushmaster National Match 20 inch heavy barrel on it, and I'm getting reliable five shot groups measuring about 0.6 inches in diameter at 100 yards, from sandbags with a scope. At fifty yards, it shoots one hole.

It outshoots every customized Ruger 10/22 I've yet compared it to, and those are popular guns at the range I go to.

My other rifle has Colt SP1 (M-16A1 type skinny profile)20 inch barrel on it. It shoots nearly as well. One inch groups at 100 yards with the same ammo, or maybe a bit tighter.

As a result of my experiences, I don't have any objection to a chromed bore. I'm getting accuracy that makes me happy. If I were a serious long range competition shooter, I may be a bit more picky, but as of now, I'm quite happy with half inch groups at 100 yards. I can't imagine why I shouldn't be.

CJ
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 7:42:14 PM EDT
Hey cmjohnson ever think you might want to sell some of that homegrown to some of us! I could send you some brass as well as pay S/H .. bob cole
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 7:56:45 PM EDT
I don't know. Hadn't thought about it. I'm still playing with the load, though, to see if I can make it just a bit tighter still.

Here's my formula, though:

Bullets: Sierra Match Kings, 53 gr. flat base hollowpoint, item number 1400,

Powder: Hodgdon H322 powder, currently at 21.5 grains and still tweaking the load. 23 grains is the max load.

Winchester WSR primer

Trimmed, polished, and matched cases. It doesn't really matter which cases, as long as you keep using the same type. I'm usually using once-fired small stamp PMC's because I've got a bucket full of them and it's good brass.

And I'm single staging them. Yes, it takes some time, but it's paying off on the target.
It takes a LOT of time, actually! A thousand rounds is a full weekend's work!

I'm planning on moving up to a Dillon XL650 soon. If it meters the powder with enough consistency, then it'll speed up the process enough that I might be able to make reloading for hire worth while. But I'm not sure that I want to do that, because I wouldn't dream of selling potentially explosive items without a business license and an ammo maker's FFL (class six) for liability reasons.

CJ
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 9:07:02 PM EDT
With a standard as from the factory ar15 sporter you should be able to get 1 inch at 100 yards off the sand bags. I shoot service rifle with a match grade upper stainless barrel 1:8 twist using 75 grain bullets. With iron sight off sand bags I will not except a load that will not do 1/2 inch.
An all out varmit rifle ,scope,tripod,24 inch barrel, light trigger,you should be able to be about .25 inch at 100 yards.
Go to the competition forum and find Lew Tippie. He will build one for you. His thing is service rifles and he is a master at them... but I am sure he could build the varmit rig you are looking for...pat
Link Posted: 3/13/2002 9:14:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By paterpk:
With a standard as from the factory ar15 sporter you should be able to get 1 inch at 100 yards off the sand bags. I shoot service rifle with a match grade upper stainless barrel 1:8 twist using 75 grain bullets. With iron sight off sand bags I will not except a load that will not do 1/2 inch.
An all out varmit rifle ,scope,tripod,24 inch barrel, light trigger,you should be able to be about .25 inch at 100 yards.
Go to the competition forum and find Lew Tippie. He will build one for you. His thing is service rifles and he is a master at them... but I am sure he could build the varmit rig you are looking for...pat



He's exactly correct, his estimates are a bit conservative from my experiences, but I've only owned flat top HB SS barrelled guns. My Colt Elite has had .17" and my DPMS 16" SSF has had .45" at a hundred yards. They both will shoot American Eagle under 3/4" @100 also, so they aren't finicky either!

Good luck with your purchase, maybe you should look at the AR15.com LEGP rifle? Good price with an optional flat top upper.
Link Posted: 3/14/2002 2:22:39 AM EDT
The FIRST 5 shots out of my 20" A2 DPMS grouped .246"@100yds. This was with all factory parts, but with the addition of a carry-handle mounted scope. It has always maintained sub-1/2" accuracy.

My recent accuracy rig is a combination of parts from at least a half-dozen manufacturers. I couldn't even tell you what brand I'd call it. It is registered as a DPMS, but that's only because of the lower receiver, which I ordered stripped. You will find that each manufacturer offers a certain AR part that's a little better designed than the rest. I'm building around this fact, and this one should be completed in a week or so. I'm just waiting on the last parts order from Les Baer.

I would much rather tackle a 1/4" AR build than another bolt-action project. It's just so much easier and less expensive, since I lacked the headspacing and lug lapping tools on my bolt projects, and had to have the work done outshop.

On ARs, it seems to all depend on the barrel. You either get a good one or you don't. But I've never had a bad one yet, and they have all been non-chrome lined.

An average scoped AR flat-top should get you 1/4-3/4".
Link Posted: 3/14/2002 4:50:34 PM EDT
Thanks guys. I am still trying to figure out some of the lingo. And different ways you can put one of these together. I can tell I will own an AR very soon.
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