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Posted: 11/8/2012 7:43:07 AM EDT
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I kinda got off track on the PVS 5C thread, so I thought I'd start a new one with the topic being what I really wanted info on.
I'm currently interested in driving with night vision. This would be with either an ATV, or a Jeep. Also it would be using an IR filtered headlight. I'm interested in what would be the best choice out of the following; Litton M915A Goggles gen 2+ tubes (similar to PVS-5d) PVS-7 with Omni V tube PVS-14 with Omni VII tube Driving would be in a heavily wooded, and hilly area. Does anyone have any experience and advice with this sort of thing? |
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All three of those systems can and have been used for driving, but out of those options, I'd have to go with the PVS-14.
I've got 100's of hours using a PVS-14 while dismounted and driving HMMWV's & MRAP's both on-road and in rugged terrain. I have also used ANVIS-6 goggles while flying as a crewmember in a UH-60. The PVS-14, despite being a monocular, is pretty easy to drive with after getting familiarized with it. Your unaided eye will actually fill in some of the missing depth perception info. It's much easier than using a PVS-7 and I can't really comment much on the PVS-5, because I've only looked through an old set for about 5 min. A Gen 2 PVS-5, even though dual tubed, just doesn't compare to the image quality and performance of a new Gen 3 tube in my opinion. That's just my take on it, and I'm sure other opinions will differ though. |
| I am working on this myself with my Polaris Ranger XP 800, Ops Core Fast helmet, ITT Pinacle PVS-14. I can navigate around my property fairly easy (haven't hit anything yet) it is heavily wooded but I have good trails I follow, not driving with any speed, just easing around, this has been without any additional IR illumination. Just ordered a Surefire M1with a Vtac mount for the helmet this morning, I'm thinking this will help a lot on the darkest night. I've pulled to within 15 yds of my yard deer and coons before they bolted. I can pick up a little speed in the field, but I am still in the practicing stage. It's a whole different world at night. Some official training would be nice. |
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Thanks for the great advice guys! It exceeded my expectations! I'm eager to try out the 14 as soon as the deer hunters that I have on my place are done with this round of bow hunting. Might not mess things up for hunting, but I won't chance it for them.
Would a good IR filtered and mounted utility headlight be too much light for a 14? Thanks! |
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I've got many many hours driving HMMWVs at night in Iraq using only
PVS-14s with our IR headlight filters. It works fine. As someone else said, the non-NVG eye can help balance your vision since it is not behind a green optic. I will tell you that doing this for many many hours at a stretch can take a toll. Can be a real headache, and makes your eyes hurt. :P If I were to do it again, I would go with the PVS14. Works fine. Be careful with your PVS-14. They can be touchy and are fragile. They occasionally lose focus, and can be a trick getting them to focus in again. Sometimes their attached mount arm or accompanying mounting gear can get loose and need to be retightened, and they can get heavy on your noggin when used for extended periods of time. |
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Another important point I want to
make about the PVS-14. Since you only have one eye looking into the device, your other eye will maintain it's natural night vision using the rods in your retina. This way, when you immediately need to flip up your NVG or turn it off, your brain will still be able to see in the dark because the other eye has adapted to low light. I've noticed this a countless times when operating in Iraq at night. Both mounted, or on foot. |
| I drive with a PVS14 and an Omni IV tube in it. I found pulling the fuse on my break lights and some tape over a couple small internal lights and I am GTG. I was going to buy some IR lights but found that putting a strip of white duct tape over my front running/turn signal lights and just turning them on works fantastically well. The pigs dont seem to notice and its a super cheap solution that lets out just enough light on particularly dark nights. The only problem is the ceiling on the cab in my Dakota is a bit low, so I have to really lean the seat back driving with the PVS14 flipped up in the rhino mount when I have the headlights on for some stretches of ranch roads. I plan on getting a classic bronco to remedy this. |
| Many members of the military (the main SME on night vision operations) have mainly used only the PVS-7 and PVS-14, which are perfectly fine for the majority of task, I PERSONALLY feel that the binocular systems are MUCH better for tasks such as driving (or in my case, flying!) The depth perception you gain from having two tubes can really help avert disaster in many cases. I can't even imagine, nor would I want to try flying with a monocular... the risk is just far too high! I would say go with the PVS-5's for the depth perception!!! |
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Quoted:
Another important point I want to make about the PVS-14. Since you only have one eye looking into the device, your other eye will maintain it's natural night vision using the rods in your retina. This way, when you immediately need to flip up your NVG or turn it off, your brain will still be able to see in the dark because the other eye has adapted to low light. I've noticed this a countless times when operating in Iraq at night. Both mounted, or on foot. You're post are quite relevant and correct on some of the topic stuff we teach around here. Thank you for posting. 
Vic |
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The filters I use are surplus M3 Korean war sniperscope spotlight filters. They used to be pretty common, but not so much anymore.
The only option beyond surplussed filters, is IR Plexiglas. It's not true IR, as you can still see a faint glow with it, but close, and usable. |
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Quoted:
The filters I use are surplus M3 Korean war sniperscope spotlight filters. They used to be pretty common, but not so much anymore. The only option beyond surplussed filters, is IR Plexiglas. It's not true IR, as you can still see a faint glow with it, but close, and usable. Agreed, nice find on those. They work well. Vic |
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I had used one of the M3 filters for years on a rechargeable spotlight. It worked really great with the old gen 1 stuff I started out with. With my newer generation stuff, I haven't needed to use it so much.
I had a recent opportunity to buy 2 more new in the box, and I couldn't resist. So I've been setting them up into IR headlamps. I'm thinking of trying mounting just one first, and if that works I'll just mount one on my Polaris and one on my Jeep. Otherwise both will be mounted on one vehicle. |
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For driving, what about lights like these? http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Infrared-Illuminator-6pcs-Array-Led-IR-Light-for-CCTV-Camera-Waterproof-IR-lamp/571762549.html Blackout panels on incandescent lights are fine, but modern LEDs are probably a better performer and you can use a diffuser if you need more spread. Regards
David |
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Looking at that link you have, I see that the lights are designed primarily for CCTV systems. My experience so far with that type of light is that you can still see a glow from them. The M3 filters are true IR with total blackout for visible light.
The listing doesn't give the Nm rating, but to really be non visible they would need to be about 880Nm or higher. 880 being the best choice. |
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Quoted: Looking at that link you have, I see that the lights are designed primarily for CCTV systems. My experience so far with that type of light is that you can still see a glow from them. The M3 filters are true IR with total blackout for visible light. The listing doesn't give the Nm rating, but to really be non visible they would need to be about 880Nm or higher. 880 being the best choice. From memory, they have different products on that site - 940 and upwards also. It will probably replace ebay in about a year, but there's a lot of fraud on the site as well, so only buy from proven sellers. But despite many thinking otherwise, frequencies in the range 700nm to 1330nm are quite visible to the human eye if they are intense enough. Human vision in this region is non-linear with response varying significantly for different frequencies however. The easiest way to reduce visibility is to reduce power output so that the glow is reduced. Or to pick a frequency in that range that our eyes see less well than around the 700-800 band. Regards David
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Sometimes I terrorize my neighborhood at night. I mounted my 23's to my skateboard helmet...
The skateboard has a rail, on which I sometimes mount my Surefire with IR filter.... 
I can get up to 30mph on one hill. Scares the crap out of the deer and dog walkers. |
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Sometimes I terrorize my neighborhood at night. I mounted my 23's to my skateboard helmet... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/Cincinnatus/P6190008.jpg The skateboard has a rail, on which I sometimes mount my Surefire with IR filter.... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/Cincinnatus/BUSH0318.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/Cincinnatus/BUSH0317.jpg I can get up to 30mph on one hill. Scares the crap out of the deer and dog walkers. That's gonna be an expensive crash when you hit a big rock 
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Sometimes I terrorize my neighborhood at night. I mounted my 23's to my skateboard helmet... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/Cincinnatus/P6190008.jpg The skateboard has a rail, on which I sometimes mount my Surefire with IR filter.... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/Cincinnatus/BUSH0318.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/Cincinnatus/BUSH0317.jpg I can get up to 30mph on one hill. Scares the crap out of the deer and dog walkers. That's gonna be an expensive crash when you hit a big rock
Skateboarding is one of the least dangerous things I've done with them on.
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Quoted:
Sometimes I terrorize my neighborhood at night. I mounted my 23's to my skateboard helmet... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/Cincinnatus/P6190008.jpg The skateboard has a rail, on which I sometimes mount my Surefire with IR filter.... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/Cincinnatus/BUSH0318.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/Cincinnatus/BUSH0317.jpg I can get up to 30mph on one hill. Scares the crap out of the deer and dog walkers.  I just spit an onion out of my mouth...
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Sometimes I terrorize my neighborhood at night. I mounted my 23's to my skateboard helmet... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/Cincinnatus/P6190008.jpg The skateboard has a rail, on which I sometimes mount my Surefire with IR filter.... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/Cincinnatus/BUSH0318.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/Cincinnatus/BUSH0317.jpg I can get up to 30mph on one hill. Scares the crap out of the deer and dog walkers. That's gonna be an expensive crash when you hit a big rock
Big Rock?! Small stones are the unseen killers when riding a skateboard! There is no way you would see them with NV on, and at 30mph you can kiss your NV and skin goodbye! 
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Quoted:
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Sometimes I terrorize my neighborhood at night. I mounted my 23's to my skateboard helmet... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/Cincinnatus/P6190008.jpg The skateboard has a rail, on which I sometimes mount my Surefire with IR filter.... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/Cincinnatus/BUSH0318.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/Cincinnatus/BUSH0317.jpg I can get up to 30mph on one hill. Scares the crap out of the deer and dog walkers. That's gonna be an expensive crash when you hit a big rock
Big Rock?! Small stones are the unseen killers when riding a skateboard! There is no way you would see them with NV on, and at 30mph you can kiss your NV and skin goodbye!
Small stones aren't a big deal. Any wheels larger than 70mm roll right over them. My preferred night ride has 77mm wheels -they roll over small deer. Medium stones and sticks are quite visible with the 23's. Most decent DH races/runs (in the day) you'll get up to 35-50 -if you are of that caliber. The small stones aren't a big deal. Always check your course before hand. |
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