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Posted: 7/24/2012 9:47:57 PM EDT
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Whats the difference between comparable models like the Standard D-740? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Quoted: Whats the difference between comparable models like the Standard D-740? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile In a nutshell? Victor DiCosolo... * That's the difference. If you don't understand, then give him a call and talk to him even while you're speaking to other people about similar products... That will help you understand it :) Regards David * Just my opinion... |
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Whats the difference between comparable models like the Standard D-740? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile In a nutshell? Victor DiCosolo... * That's the difference. If you don't understand, then give him a call and talk to him even while you're speaking to other people about similar products... That will help you understand it :) Regards David * Just my opinion... Yeah, and I bet Night Optics does not have a cool fish tank either !  Vic, Chip , Kyle and the Tedster are all great guys. They will go way out of their way to make sure you get great service. That service does not end after the sale. You can call them up anytime and ask questions until you get tired of talking. 
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Whats the difference between comparable models like the Standard D-740? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile In a nutshell? Victor DiCosolo... * That's the difference. If you don't understand, then give him a call and talk to him even while you're speaking to other people about similar products... That will help you understand it :) Regards David * Just my opinion... Yeah, and I bet Night Optics does not have a cool fish tank either ! Vic, Chip , Kyle and the Tedster are all great guys. They will go way out of their way to make sure you get great service. That service does not end after the sale. You can call them up anytime and ask questions until you get tired of talking.
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Quoted: So, technically speaking, there is little difference in some of their products. I am very familiar with their service, though. When you're looking for differences in the same model product, often it's pretty subtle. I would be very surprised if there was any material difference between two D740's for example. And if they both came from the same source pre-assembled, then there's not likely to be much difference at all. Kind of like laptops. They are assembled in the same factory with the same parts and go out to two different shops, so the question comes down to which one should you buy from given that the product is essentially the same? The answer then as to where to buy from is often something deeply personal. Many people just look at price. Who can sell you the item for the cheapest. I mean, same part right? And for any given part that's assembled somewhere else, there is a range of quality possible - Most are the same, some are exceptional and some have problems. Usually this fits neatly under the bell curve and if you get the upper 5th percentile, you're lucky. If you get the lower 5th percentile, you get a lemon. Some lemons are really bad, but others might be simple issues. Too much light reflected from the mylar reticle coating... Cross threaded... Blemishes and lower MTF... well they are more serious, but it can happen, even in a product as good as the D740/760. Same parts right? Just the luck of the draw. Even dust in the assembly can ruin a really good product for the buyer. So I'll quantify what someone like Vic offers. I can't help you much with Night Optics, as I don't actually know them, but I do know Vic. First of all, there's the product on the shelf... Vic looks through every item TNVC sells, and makes sure there are no serious problems. He weeds out the lower 5th percentile of product and doesn't sell it. Not without addressing the problem first. Perhaps he corrects the situation or sends it back - only Vic could elaborate on a case by case basis - but the simple fact is he does check every scope. I know he used to do it personally, but now TNVC is a little larger, perhaps Chip, Kyle or one of his other experienced staff does that checking as well. And that's OK, because ALL of them have serious tactical experience in the area of Night Vision. They know what to look for. We're not talking minor cosmetic blemishes here, we're talking faults or problems that are going to affect your ability to get the most out of your product. And they remove those problems from the equation. So you can have confidence in every single scope they sell. Not just a scope, but a scope or monocular that's been checked by a true tactical expert in the night vision field. That's a value-add if you're not experienced enough to do that yourself. Next, they sell it to you. Now just to cover what I said, it's already checked. But even TNVC is going to have unhappy customers at times. Well, I've spoken to Vic about some of them in the past and he's looked after every single one. I don't think he guarantees satisfaction, but I've yet to meet a customer of TNVC who wasn't satisfied, who took the time to work through their problem with Vic. Not only does he drive that service but time and time again, we've seen him go far outside what could be reasonably required in such situations. He has people ship their product back and he genuinely tries to resolve their issue. I can recall many such instances in this forum and as far as I can remember, they were ALL happy in the end. That's some serious customer service.. That's a major value add. Next, there's advice. Scope not fitting? Need a new attachment? Need something special? Vic has always been available to offer some of the best advice around and he offers it freely. People call him who have never bought anything off him to ask his advice. He genuinely helps people in the night vision community and I know goes out of his way to help Mil and LE guys. And he knows his stuff. He's not going to tell you something stupid, or give you advice that's likely to see you hurt. Because his advice is based on experience. Real experience. And he has a lot of that. That's a value add. Because of all of that, his suppliers trust him. They know he expects the best product and service and he requires that of them as well. I've met some of Vic's suppliers. They are genuinely motivated members of the NV community that live and breath their products. Whether it's a small guy who's developed a new lifesaving NV technology like the Battleview system or whether it's a leading-edge military developer like the O'gara group, they are ALL top-notch people. Trustworthy and honest and I suspect that if they were not, Vic wouldn't deal with them. So you get the benefit of true personal values integrated into their products. That's a significant value add. Finally, there's his team. As good as Vic is, his team have even more experience than he does is specific areas. I'm not going to say what it is, because I'm not sure what I can say, but some of these guys have more experience with the technology in specific areas than I'll ever have or even know of. And they all look to provide the same level of service as Vic does. That's a value add. And when you add all of those value add's up, and realize every single one is included with every product Vic sells, that intangible bag of value-add's really makes a difference to the product. Because if you have confidence in your product, if you have confidence in the way you've been told to use it and you have confidence that it's the right product for the purpose you have, then you will get more value and use out of that product. And that's real value. Now I am not a TNVC customer. I've never been a TNVC customer because I'm not located in the US. But I've met Vic and we've chatted for years and I got to know him through the NV community and perhaps that affords me a special perspective, because I trust him. So to answer your question, IMO there is a huge difference in the product TNVC sell, even when it's the same product. But unlike the little bag of accessories that usually comes with NV kit, not everything about it is tangible. Little things like quality control, checking that the setup is suitable - all are valuable components of a final product. TNVC has a lot of customer loyalty and it's not just because the TNVC staff are al great people. Great people could still be nice and just move product. What TNVC do is more than that. They become your personal armorer with respect to NV equipment. Someone who cares about your experience with the product and, if applicable, your safety in using it also. Now I'm not saying others don't or can't offer that, but I don't know any other suppliers and I can't speak for their service. But I know TNVC. And they've earned my respect. And as I said, speak to them, because most of the above is pretty easy to work out in a quick conversation. You don't need to take my word for it - You can probably evaluate who is going to give you the overall best product just by talking to them - and by all means talk to others who sell the same product as well, because price is important too. I hope this helps :) Regards David |
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Praise be unto Vic, yes. Still no one had directly answered my question: Is there a real difference in the scopes? I understand the difference in customer service. I am trying to reach educated conclusions about products. No, assuming the tubes are the same quality. The scopes are all assembled by the same people. I don't know if some dealers get better tubes or the pick of the litter. I suspect if you sell many of them you get some consideration in that area. Dealers used to be able to buy just the housing and install their own tube. My understanding is they all come assembled with a tube now and that is the only way they are sold. So, it boils down to service, price and tube quality. You have to go with someone you trust and make up your own mind. To sum it up,they are all essentially the same scope and tube.
What David wrote was outstanding. I will just try to simplify it some. Say I buy 1000 PVS-14 scopes from the same dealer. All the same make , model and price. Are they all the same ?? No, they are not because no two intensifier tubes are the same. Night vision is more like buying a diamond then say a F-150 pickup. You have to rely on someone with experience to look through the scope or read data cards to know which ones perform better and which ones need to be sent back. On paper they are the same. In real world use no two will perform the same. That is why some dealers offer hand select. Just means they look through a bunch of scopes and pull out the ones that perform at the top of the curve. Cost extra because some guy has to sit in a dark room for a few hours and pull out the best scopes. Data cards are one aspect but you still need to look through it and see how it performs. Best tube I ever had came out of an Envis scope. Tube was spectacular and on paper the specs would surely be really high. Problem was it had a huge spot dead center. Spots are not listed on all data cards. L3 lists them on their data sheet. But still, unless you know what the sizes and zones mean it is of little value to the layman. Which is why someone needs to look through the scope. Try to convince someone how great that tube is with the large spot. I sold the scope and I kick myself everyday for doing so. Buyer had no idea how truly amazing the tube was. He only saw the large spot and figured he get a deal on it, and he did because I could find nobody else who wanted it.
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