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Posted: 8/12/2008 2:26:46 PM EDT
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Now I am not stupid enough to really believe it when someone (cough cough |
What I ment was that ATN does not have a "Gen 4" for under 5 Grand |
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There was a Gen 4. Little history - you have to understand who's the authority on night vision. No, it's not ITT or Litton. It's Army's Night Vision Lab and today, the responsible division is called Night Vision and Electronic Sensor Directorate (NVESD). Litton came out with autogated tubes and then claimed it's Gen 4. NVL came out and told them that autogated tubes aren't advanced enough to be called the next generation. So Litton reverted back to Gen 3 autogated. ITT came out and called theirs Pinnacle. So now, they're all Gen 3....except ATN. |
yup, same thing i heard quite a while back |
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dakrevla, Neat photos, that's an MX-10160B from Litton, the specs on this tube can be found here: Litton Gen IV Filmless MX-10160B Have you seen a difference with these tubes compared to the thin film versions? There's a french site with a post of the photos from diffrent generations of image tube up to the filmless Gen 4 type here: Photo comparison of Gen I 2 3 and Filmless Tubes I spoke to Ed Wilcox about this above site and he told me the post is from a friend of his, David Sadok near Paris who he trusts. They are a good example I think to show the differences in the different image tube generations. |
I will wholeheartedly disagree here.....I can tell you those pics have been up for awhile and the so-caled Gen 4 is not a very good comparison versus the normal Gen 3. The magnification is not even the same and the gain/brightness suffers as it's quite apparent the camera is using some sort of magnification. It's also out of focus. One other point, the picture was taken at different times as the whole 2nd floor (from the top) of lights and single light (3rd floor main and right buildings)) from the main building is not even on during the "Gen-4 pics." Also look at the "Gen-4" roof, there is a heck of a lot of ambient light in this pic versus the Gen 3. What IS interesting to note, is the same lights that ARE ON between the two pics. I've looked through enough AG and filmless tube systems, while the AG tubes are good, I know what is happening in these pics. Hope this helps. |
Good observations, I hadn't looked that closely but I see what you are talking about now. I did notice that the gen3 pic was a little out of focus there but that picture series is definitely the best one I HAVE SEEN to compare the different generations. It is, of course, only competing w/ the hilarious series that used to be published in cabela's magazines and on the all knowing ATN site. If I recall correctly it just had a picture of a wolf or coyote with the only explicit differences in the photos being the darkness or lightness relative to one another. I wish I still had my Yukon 3x42 gen1 and ITT gen2 because I would definitely do a fair comparison of them to my hand select MUM. Someone w/ all three generations should for sure do this!! |
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Ed used a photo comparison on his site to help illustrate the manual gain feature of the PVS-14A Link is here: manual gain photo comparison Hey Victor, did you try photographing your PVS-14's with different gain settings under a certain lighting condition? It could help others here not familiar with manual gain to help get an idea of the feature. I also think Victor is correct in his observations though in reference to the site I linked to, these photos are pretty much a rough guide, and it does appear the photos were taken at either different times or under different lighting conditions, but nonetheless I feel it's a good rough idea of what each generation presents to the viewer. |
I've done it with Gen 2 and 3. It is VERY hard to do it with Gen 3 standard and Gen 3 Pinnacle due to the camera shows too much bloom with a light source, not the NV unit itself. You can see this in these "Gen 4" pics in question, this depiction also has a hard time showing the room lights, BOTH show heavy bloom except for the far left light source through the trees, the so-called Gen 4 actually shows MORE halo and bloom vs. the "Gen 4". This is because more light is showing up in the "Gen 4 " pic. In all reality their is a 20-30% INCREASE with a Pinnacle Autogated Halo and resolution in a high light environment. The other key is when the Auto Brightness Control (ABC) kicks in with a normal Gen 3 PVS-14 you lose resolution, which is part of what is happening in the normal Gen 3 pic depicted along with MUCH brighter light sources and an unfortunate zoomed image. Autogated units do not lose any resolution when the autogated function kicks in at high light. The other BIG advantage LE and Mil folk have enjoyed with AG units is if the fight ever went to white lights, and one is using PVS-22 type or head mounted units and no time exists to remove the unit, one can stay in the fight without the unit turning off, or damaging the tube. Also, I am NOT the best in using a camera to shoot through the tube pics. Even TNVC's newest photographer is learning in a hurry what happens if any light is introduced while the camera is trying to adjust looking into the NV tube. The image is NEVER as good as ones actual eye see's. Below are a Gen 2 D-300, MUM Gen 2 SHP, GEN 3 PVS-14 (Non Pinnacle) and a Gen 3 72LP ITT Pinnacle PVS-14 and Litton Gen 3 82LP Pinnacle PVS. The bottom photo Pinnacle was taken when it was a bit brighter and it's very hard to see the bloom differences except for the bright light in the center which was not present during the Pinnacle shoot. This particular Pinnacle unit also had a bit higher gain than the other PVS Gen 3 shown. Also, if you look VERY closely at the Pinnacle units, you will see 2 distinct black steeel 10" x 10" hanging targets at the far birm. Hope this helps. D-300 Gen 2 MS  MUM Gen 2 SHP  ITT PVS-14 Select A  ITT NE PVS-14 Pinnacle Autogated  Litton Auotgated 81LP 
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This is a MUCH better observation Ed has made (or his friend) in regards to the advantages with the manual gain vs the original pics in question. I have not taken too many pics of different gain settings, we just try to take all the pics at one setting with no Photoshop changes except for squaring up the edges and implanting our lettering and logo's so we limit what is stolen and put on other sites! 
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what on the serial would designate that it is a pinnacle unit or not? or would that have to be looked up on the company's records? like some items have the product in there, say if it was a pinnacle it would have a P in there, etc? thanks |
Yes, they still make these. For example MX-10130E/UV, Id.No. A3279400, NSN 5855-01-475-4454 MX-11769A/UV, Id.No. A3279450, NSN 5855-01-471-1509 |
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