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Posted: 1/20/2016 7:43:28 PM EDT
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Ok so this will probably come out all jumbled. So I'm sorry ahead of time.
I purchased a Osprey in October from a dealer in Georgia. F3 gets approved. It arrives at my dealer in December. I give him a $200 cashiers check and my trust info. He says he'll handle the Form 4. I say ok. Fast forward to January 10th or so. I call the ATF branch to see if my form is pending (curiosity more than anything) and the ATF has no record of it. So I call the bank to see if it's been cashed. They say it still hasn't cleared. So I call my dealer to ask if he really sent it off when he said he did. He said yeah and everything looks correct on his end. So I said I'll wait another week. I call the ATF and bank and they both haven't changed statuses. My paperwork is MIA. I call my dealer again to make sure it got there "I don't know what the tracking number is" he said. I told him I need to get it to make sure it got there. He said "I'll email the ATF and have the tracking info for you monday". Monday came. Nothing from him. The ATF lady said he either never sent it, or put the wrong address, or its lost in the mail. When I told my dealer he reassured me "it'll take 5-6 months for it to come back approved" I tried explaining to him it doesn't take 42 days for the ATF to cash a check. I think he messed up somewhere or he is trying to screw me over. So I either 1. Wait and hope it shows up at the ATF. 2. Cancel the check and resubmit and hope this dealer doesn't screw up again. 3. Have him send my suppressor to another dealer in town that I know does good work. And hope he doesn't screw up that paperwork either. Sorry for the long post. I'm not sure where to go or what to do since this is my first NFA item. |
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Sorry its happening. I wouldn't transfer to another dealer, no need for that. You could just cancel check and redo with current dealer and mail Form4 yourself with track#. I always send priority mail with free trk#. Only $6.
I think I would keep working your dealer to locate the missing paperwork. Ask him for a copy of the Form4. Did you sign the Form4? Do you trust the dealer? If so it likely got lost in Xmas mail flurry but still could resurface. Ive read about dealers forgetting to mail stuff off timely, and did so only after brought to their attention. He might have been too embarrassed to admit it and just now mailed it off. Go in and have a heart to heart with him and get his advice. |
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I assume you can check online for the $200? If so...go back and look. It won't show the check cashed...they convert it to ACH/EFT.
Not saying that's definitely the case, but it could be. Money could've been taken out in Dec, and form still not in the system in mid-Jan. |
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Quoted:
I assume you can check online for the $200? If so...go back and look. It won't show the check cashed...they convert it to ACH/EFT. Not saying that's definitely the case, but it could be. Money could've been taken out in Dec, and form still not in the system in mid-Jan. It was a cashiers check. So not sure if that applies the same but I've heard that |
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I would think it would apply as far as the ACH/EFT, but it may be harder for them to confirm. No real idea on that. In the future, just send a personal check or pay by CC...I don't like depending on somebody else to tell me when payment cleared.
When my dealer actually pays the for the stamp and let's me know when checks clear. I either put my CC info on the form, or I just pay the dealer and he writes them a check. He prefers checks because they've screwed up a few CC transactions. With a check, he knows exactly which payment goes with which form(s). |
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I would think it would apply as far as the ACH/EFT, but it may be harder for them to confirm. No real idea on that. In the future, just send a personal check or pay by CC...I don't like depending on somebody else to tell me when payment cleared. When my dealer actually pays the for the stamp and let's me know when checks clear. I either put my CC info on the form, or I just pay the dealer and he writes them a check. He prefers checks because they've screwed up a few CC transactions. With a check, he knows exactly which payment goes with which form(s). So should I wait awhile then? I guess I never thought of this aspect. Yeah I know I should have sent a personal check but was nervous something like this would have happened. |
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I think you're a little worked up because it's your first NFA items, which is understandable. I'm not saying the dealer hasn't screwed something up...but nothing you've said so far confirms it. I had a form mailed in 12/15 and I haven't even thought about calling to check on it because I doubt it's in the system. But, I know the check was cashed, so it's less of a concern.
I'd be interested to know what tracking info the dealer was going to get from the ATF. Also curious if you called the bank back and explained the situation about them not actually cashing the check is it possible for them to look for it differently...and it might not be with a cashier's check. |
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Yeah I know I should have sent a personal check but was nervous something like this would have happened. Isn't sending a cashiers check more risky than a personal check, since the money is paid up front instead of when cashed? Can you check the status of a cashiers check? |
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So should I wait awhile then? I guess I never thought of this aspect. Yeah I know I should have sent a personal check but was nervous something like this would have happened. The BATF turned the check you sent into a electronic withdraw, your going to have to see if your bank can tell if its been cashed. YOU need to TELL the person at the bank that that is what should have happened to the check, can they find out if it did. |
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Yeah it is my first item so I am a bit nervous. When I sat and talked with the banker he said it hasn't cleared yet. If I explain that it'll look more like a withdrawal maybe they can find it that way. This is why I came here to ask before anything else. I'll see if I can get to the bank on Friday and talk to the banker again.
Because I also understood it'll take 2 months+ to get into the system at the ATF correct? Also I'm glad I went through SS for my rifle can. I won't even have to worry about this stuff.... hopefully anyways |
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F3 gets approved. It arrives at my dealer in December. I give him a $200 cashiers check and my trust info.
He says he'll handle the Form 4. I say ok. So you didn't fill out the Form 4, or even see it, yourself (?) I realize Silencer Shop has figured out a way to submit the Form 4 / trust for you, but I always have to sign the Form 4 when I do it locally. I've had a lot of dealer screw-ups in my short NFA experience (typically, on the other end); I'll just tell you what I'd do if it were me: #1. Find out about that Form 4-- who signed it? (if it wasn't you)
. #2. I've never had the ATF take 42 days to cash a check. Ever. As you surmise, this is a big red flag, suggests to me that they didn't get your application... remember, it's not like they approve your application, then cash the check... they pull those checks out immediately and put that application in the "to do one day" pile. So far as I know, there's nothing that would ever keep them from cashing that check if they got it. #3. Don't know your dealer, he might be honest, but there's an amazing amount of sloppiness out there by people who should know better. Does he sell a lot of suppressors? Could he have lost/misplaced it? Does he seem knowledgeable? #4. If your dealer can't figure out what happened, then yes, I'd start over and re-submit.... probably mail it myself this time... if it were me I absolutely, positively, would NOT WAIT SIX MONTHS to find out if this transfer was going to work. I'll close with this true story: Last October, I purchased an SMG from a dealer out-of-state. Got a copy of the Form 3, was told
that it had been Faxed to the ATF that day. Six weeks or so go by, and I follow up (I know it should be close based on Silencer Shop's posted FRM 3 times). He says "nothing yet," he'll check with the ATF. When he calls the ATF, they say never received anything...  He blames "the government," the
ATF blames him... and I have no idea. Doesn't matter at that point, we start over and I ride it a bit closer the 2nd time through. Thing is: I only lost maybe 1/4th the time you'll lose, if you wait six months... Good luck! (and keep us posted as to how things work out) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Edited to add: OK, just read back through the thread a little more closely and saw that you used a Cashier's Check (funds deducted from your account at the time the check is made out). So the fact is, you don't actually know if the check has been deposited, or not (other than what some guy at the bank told you). Before doing anything else, then, I would try to find out if they've received that Cashier's check (not sure how to do this, I've never had an issue). Would use a personal check next time. |
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So you didn't fill out the Form 4, or even see it, yourself (?) Quoted:
F3 gets approved. It arrives at my dealer in December. I give him a $200 cashiers check and my trust info.
He says he'll handle the Form 4. I say ok. So you didn't fill out the Form 4, or even see it, yourself (?) No I never saw it or signed it. It was with a trust. And I had no idea on the process. From what I can tell about how he handles things. NFA is still pretty new to him. He's an older gentleman. I'm going down tomorrow to see if I can find out exactly what happened and a copy of the Form 4.(he's an hour and a half from me) And so should I cancel the check and resubmit or wait a few more weeks? |
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Your story is exactly what happened to me. I waited on the dealer for 6 months until I was fed up and form 3'd my SBS to another local dealer 5 miles away.
I paid just like you did with a cashiers check and to this day the original check has never been cashed, just last month the bank finally credited the funds back into my account. I've seen others post on here about the fact that they went months with no sign of a check being cashed and "poof" their stamp showed up at the dealer; but the norm seems to be a relatively quick timeframe for the check to show it was cashed/debited from your account. . Giving it time is one thing, but please don't wait on the word of your dealer for 5-6 months like I did. Much easier to start over IMHO. Good Luck... 44 |
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NightFox said: Trusts don't have to sign anything I've always signed the ones I've done with the local dealer, with myself as "Transferee" for the Trust (i.e., item #15). > HOWEVER < I looked at one done by "Silencer Shop Direct" and sure enough, there's no Transferee Certification signature. So either way will work (and I've got multiple approvals both with and without Transferee signatures as documentation). - - - - - - - - Getting back to the point at hand, I still think that he needs to try and find out if the check has been deposited by the ATF, as the next step. If so, maybe the Form4 was completed correctly and it's just a matter of waiting. |
| And this is why where I work I fill out the form 4 and hand it to the customer, then it's on the customer and the customer knows when it was sent. 3 months down the road and 75 or so form 4s later, I wouldn't have a clue. The calls and questions about the form 3s are enough. I say that to say this- it amazes me when other dealers in small shops don't handle it this way. |
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I've always signed the ones I've done with the local dealer, with myself as "Transferee" for the Trust (i.e., item #15). > HOWEVER < I looked at one done by "Silencer Shop Direct" and sure enough, there's no Transferee Certification signature. So either way will work (and I've got multiple approvals both with and without Transferee signatures as documentation). Quoted:
NightFox said:
Trusts don't have to sign anything I've always signed the ones I've done with the local dealer, with myself as "Transferee" for the Trust (i.e., item #15). > HOWEVER < I looked at one done by "Silencer Shop Direct" and sure enough, there's no Transferee Certification signature. So either way will work (and I've got multiple approvals both with and without Transferee signatures as documentation). It's not that trusts don't have to sign anything, it's that the form spells out very clearly that the Transferee Certification is only for SBR/SBS/MG/DD (similar to the 5320.20). I've never even seen any of my Form 4s before the stamp was affixed. They're all for suppressors, plus one AOW. Signing it isn't going to hurt anything, it's just unnecessary. The whole 2nd page is blank on mine. This is the reason customers and dealers need to read the dang instructions provided on the forum. |
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And this is why where I work I fill out the form 4 and hand it to the customer, then it's on the customer and the customer knows when it was sent. 3 months down the road and 75 or so form 4s later, I wouldn't have a clue. The calls and questions about the form 3s are enough. I say that to say this- it amazes me when other dealers in small shops don't handle it this way. FWIW, this is how my dealer does it as well. He fills out everything he needs to on the form 4 then hands it to the customer with instructions and post-it's marking where they need to fill in their info. Easy. This way, it's not for him to keep track of, and I prefer to mail it myself so I know it's been done and immediately have the tracking info to watch for delivery. I can then watch for my check to be cashed (ACH) and follow up a few weeks later with a call to ATF to confirm pending status. Nothing left but to wait. If I don't know the gun shop owner personally, I would not entrust them with this process simply due to the pitfalls being experienced by the OP. And I know the idea of sending a personal check to the .gov doesn't excite a lot of people, but cashiers checks are a bad idea because they introduce another variable and add a layer of complexity in confirming one step of an already inconsistent process. |
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Okay I'm heading that way to his shop today. He's an hour from me. So I'm gonna see if he can give me a tracking number or an idea where it is.
If not I'll have him fill in his info on a form 4. I'll take it, fill it out myself and send it off myself. I'd rather start over now then post July 13. 
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Okay I'm heading that way to his shop today. He's an hour from me. So I'm gonna see if he can give me a tracking number or an idea where it is. If not I'll have him fill in his info on a form 4. I'll take it, fill it out myself and send it off myself. I'd rather start over now then post July 13. No matter what you do, the wait is going to be super long at this point. I wouldn't expect to see your can until December or more IMO. EVERYONE is sending stuff in...I wouldn't be surprised if it's a record |
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UPDATE: dealer found my paperwork. Was stuck in Lubbock, he messed up the address and didn't have a return address so it sat at the hub. They fixed it and it should be there Monday.
And yeah I know I'm in other NFA pages and it's a frenzy right now. I have two cans in the pipe and I fully expect to not see them til 2017 |
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It was a cashiers check. So not sure if that applies the same but I've heard that Quoted:
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I assume you can check online for the $200? If so...go back and look. It won't show the check cashed...they convert it to ACH/EFT. Not saying that's definitely the case, but it could be. Money could've been taken out in Dec, and form still not in the system in mid-Jan. It was a cashiers check. So not sure if that applies the same but I've heard that I got my 1st title 2 15 some odd years ago. My dealer told me this. "Forget you have a transfer. When you least expect it I'll be calling you to come get your gun." Still true. A watched pot never boils. |
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UPDATE: dealer found my paperwork. Was stuck in Lubbock, he messed up the address and didn't have a return address so it sat at the hub. They fixed it and it should be there Monday. And yeah I know I'm in other NFA pages and it's a frenzy right now. I have two cans in the pipe and I fully expect to not see them til 2017 Glad you got it worked out. Even though the wait will be long, at least now you know it's moving in the right direction. |
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I got my 1st title 2 15 some odd years ago. My dealer told me this. "Forget you have a transfer. When you least expect it I'll be calling you to come get your gun." Still true. A watched pot never boils. Quoted:
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I assume you can check online for the $200? If so...go back and look. It won't show the check cashed...they convert it to ACH/EFT. Not saying that's definitely the case, but it could be. Money could've been taken out in Dec, and form still not in the system in mid-Jan. It was a cashiers check. So not sure if that applies the same but I've heard that I got my 1st title 2 15 some odd years ago. My dealer told me this. "Forget you have a transfer. When you least expect it I'll be calling you to come get your gun." Still true. A watched pot never boils. While true. If I hadn't paid attention I'd have waited 6+ months to figure out something was messed up |
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"A watched pot never boils." While true. If I hadn't paid attention I'd have waited 6+ months to figure out something was messed up Yes, and I would phrase it thusly, "A watched pot never boils, BUT it is up to you to make sure the flame's lit
and the pot's on the burner..."  Another story I haven't shared yet in this thread: once had a well-known, high-volume Gunbroker dealer send my NFA item to the wrong state (!) Back when Frm 3's were taking 3+ months, lost over 12 weeks with that one... (and yes, it was absolutely their fault... didn't look closely at the dealer info I sent them). |
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