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Posted: 11/13/2013 11:09:49 AM EDT
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I've been trying to keep up with the guntrustlawyer and princelaw blogs as far as the 41P commentary is going, and I am starting to think we might want to start gearing up to fight the inevitable. I figure since it's not a congressional action, and with Holder/new cover-up guy driving the fail bus, there's no doubt in my mind they will just make the change anyway and ignore the feedback. I doubt they'd even issue a "we reviewed the comments and too bad so sad" comment to be honest.
So the meat of the issue, if 41P is rammed through despite providing no metrics, reports, studies, etc. to base their rule change off of, what options are open? Can a legal injunction or suit be filed to prevent or delay implementation? Could congress/senate even investigate the issue even if we could garner enough interest? Will GOA, SAF, NRA/ILA (NFATCA despite them being in the proverbial doghouse), or any other major action groups pull funds and lawyers to lead the charge, or are we just going to have to suck it up? I finally got into the NFA game and frankly have too much on my list to be shut down now 
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I've been trying to keep up with the guntrustlawyer and princelaw blogs as far as the 41P commentary is going, and I am starting to think we might want to start gearing up to fight the inevitable. I figure since it's not a congressional action, and with Holder/new cover-up guy driving the fail bus, there's no doubt in my mind they will just make the change anyway and ignore the feedback. I doubt they'd even issue a "we reviewed the comments and too bad so sad" comment to be honest. So the meat of the issue, if 41P is rammed through despite providing no metrics, reports, studies, etc. to base their rule change off of, what options are open? Can a legal injunction or suit be filed to prevent or delay implementation? Could congress/senate even investigate the issue even if we could garner enough interest? Will GOA, SAF, NRA/ILA (NFATCA despite them being in the proverbial doghouse), or any other major action groups pull funds and lawyers to lead the charge, or are we just going to have to suck it up? I finally got into the NFA game and frankly have too much on my list to be shut down now Get a CLEO signature. Its not hard but you will have to have the courage to talk to all the CLEO in your area. Dont read the net where it says they dont sign. In a lot of cases they do and people are scared to ask |
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Get a CLEO signature. Its not hard but you will have to have the courage to talk to all the CLEO in your area. Dont read the net where it says they dont sign. In a lot of cases they do and people are scared to ask Quoted:
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I've been trying to keep up with the guntrustlawyer and princelaw blogs as far as the 41P commentary is going, and I am starting to think we might want to start gearing up to fight the inevitable. I figure since it's not a congressional action, and with Holder/new cover-up guy driving the fail bus, there's no doubt in my mind they will just make the change anyway and ignore the feedback. I doubt they'd even issue a "we reviewed the comments and too bad so sad" comment to be honest. So the meat of the issue, if 41P is rammed through despite providing no metrics, reports, studies, etc. to base their rule change off of, what options are open? Can a legal injunction or suit be filed to prevent or delay implementation? Could congress/senate even investigate the issue even if we could garner enough interest? Will GOA, SAF, NRA/ILA (NFATCA despite them being in the proverbial doghouse), or any other major action groups pull funds and lawyers to lead the charge, or are we just going to have to suck it up? I finally got into the NFA game and frankly have too much on my list to be shut down now Get a CLEO signature. Its not hard but you will have to have the courage to talk to all the CLEO in your area. Dont read the net where it says they dont sign. In a lot of cases they do and people are scared to ask Getting CLEO is an issue when they are established as blankly refusing all NFA paperwork. Additionally, it is an issue when trust members stretch across multiple police jurisdictions. All of the proposed changes are just going to add to the already ludicrous 15+ month wait. So yeah, it's an issue to me because it's wrong in the first place. |
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Getting CLEO is an issue when they are established as blankly refusing all NFA paperwork. Additionally, it is an issue when trust members stretch across multiple police jurisdictions. All of the proposed changes are just going to add to the already ludicrous 15+ month wait. So yeah, it's an issue to me because it's wrong in the first place. Quoted:
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I've been trying to keep up with the guntrustlawyer and princelaw blogs as far as the 41P commentary is going, and I am starting to think we might want to start gearing up to fight the inevitable. I figure since it's not a congressional action, and with Holder/new cover-up guy driving the fail bus, there's no doubt in my mind they will just make the change anyway and ignore the feedback. I doubt they'd even issue a "we reviewed the comments and too bad so sad" comment to be honest. So the meat of the issue, if 41P is rammed through despite providing no metrics, reports, studies, etc. to base their rule change off of, what options are open? Can a legal injunction or suit be filed to prevent or delay implementation? Could congress/senate even investigate the issue even if we could garner enough interest? Will GOA, SAF, NRA/ILA (NFATCA despite them being in the proverbial doghouse), or any other major action groups pull funds and lawyers to lead the charge, or are we just going to have to suck it up? I finally got into the NFA game and frankly have too much on my list to be shut down now Get a CLEO signature. Its not hard but you will have to have the courage to talk to all the CLEO in your area. Dont read the net where it says they dont sign. In a lot of cases they do and people are scared to ask Getting CLEO is an issue when they are established as blankly refusing all NFA paperwork. Additionally, it is an issue when trust members stretch across multiple police jurisdictions. All of the proposed changes are just going to add to the already ludicrous 15+ month wait. So yeah, it's an issue to me because it's wrong in the first place. You asked what can you do if this goes thru. Like it or not, you'll either get a CLEO signature or you wont buy NFA stuff Theres at least 20 CLEO you can ask to sign the forms. Odds are greatly in your favor that at least one will sign. Just dont be afraid to ask |
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Get a CLEO signature. Its not hard but you will have to have the courage to talk to all the CLEO in your area. Dont read the net where it says they dont sign. In a lot of cases they do and people are scared to ask Quoted:
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I've been trying to keep up with the guntrustlawyer and princelaw blogs as far as the 41P commentary is going, and I am starting to think we might want to start gearing up to fight the inevitable. I figure since it's not a congressional action, and with Holder/new cover-up guy driving the fail bus, there's no doubt in my mind they will just make the change anyway and ignore the feedback. I doubt they'd even issue a "we reviewed the comments and too bad so sad" comment to be honest. So the meat of the issue, if 41P is rammed through despite providing no metrics, reports, studies, etc. to base their rule change off of, what options are open? Can a legal injunction or suit be filed to prevent or delay implementation? Could congress/senate even investigate the issue even if we could garner enough interest? Will GOA, SAF, NRA/ILA (NFATCA despite them being in the proverbial doghouse), or any other major action groups pull funds and lawyers to lead the charge, or are we just going to have to suck it up? I finally got into the NFA game and frankly have too much on my list to be shut down now Get a CLEO signature. Its not hard but you will have to have the courage to talk to all the CLEO in your area. Dont read the net where it says they dont sign. In a lot of cases they do and people are scared to ask 
scared to ask for a signature? don't forget, guys, that suppressor sales are huge now. it's not a tiny market like NFA guns. so if there is some location where NOBODY will sign, those people are going to get a lot of pressure from the suppressor buyers also, all the suppressor buyers and suppressor vendors will be raising a stink with their congressmen and so forth. the government can dick around with NFA buyers but not without a political kickback Does anyone know of a location where it is virtually impossible to get any signature? Or is everyone just worried about that idea? |
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scared to ask for a signature? don't forget, guys, that suppressor sales are huge now. it's not a tiny market like NFA guns. so if there is some location where NOBODY will sign, those people are going to get a lot of pressure from the suppressor buyers also, all the suppressor buyers and suppressor vendors will be raising a stink with their congressmen and so forth. the government can dick around with NFA buyers but not without a political kickback Does anyone know of a location where it is virtually impossible to get any signature? Or is everyone just worried about that idea? Quoted:
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I've been trying to keep up with the guntrustlawyer and princelaw blogs as far as the 41P commentary is going, and I am starting to think we might want to start gearing up to fight the inevitable. I figure since it's not a congressional action, and with Holder/new cover-up guy driving the fail bus, there's no doubt in my mind they will just make the change anyway and ignore the feedback. I doubt they'd even issue a "we reviewed the comments and too bad so sad" comment to be honest. So the meat of the issue, if 41P is rammed through despite providing no metrics, reports, studies, etc. to base their rule change off of, what options are open? Can a legal injunction or suit be filed to prevent or delay implementation? Could congress/senate even investigate the issue even if we could garner enough interest? Will GOA, SAF, NRA/ILA (NFATCA despite them being in the proverbial doghouse), or any other major action groups pull funds and lawyers to lead the charge, or are we just going to have to suck it up? I finally got into the NFA game and frankly have too much on my list to be shut down now Get a CLEO signature. Its not hard but you will have to have the courage to talk to all the CLEO in your area. Dont read the net where it says they dont sign. In a lot of cases they do and people are scared to ask
scared to ask for a signature? don't forget, guys, that suppressor sales are huge now. it's not a tiny market like NFA guns. so if there is some location where NOBODY will sign, those people are going to get a lot of pressure from the suppressor buyers also, all the suppressor buyers and suppressor vendors will be raising a stink with their congressmen and so forth. the government can dick around with NFA buyers but not without a political kickback Does anyone know of a location where it is virtually impossible to get any signature? Or is everyone just worried about that idea? Again, people are afraid to ask. You've got like 20-30 CLEO you can ask to sign. At least one of them will sign. Its not a probldm getting a CLEO signature, its a problem getting people to go ask. Everyone reads the net saying my CLEO will not sign, but they didnt ask all of them |
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Again, people are afraid to ask. You've got like 20-30 CLEO you can ask to sign. At least one of them will sign. Its not a probldm getting a CLEO signature, its a problem getting people to go ask. Everyone reads the net saying my CLEO will not sign, but they didnt ask all of them Quoted:
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I've been trying to keep up with the guntrustlawyer and princelaw blogs as far as the 41P commentary is going, and I am starting to think we might want to start gearing up to fight the inevitable. I figure since it's not a congressional action, and with Holder/new cover-up guy driving the fail bus, there's no doubt in my mind they will just make the change anyway and ignore the feedback. I doubt they'd even issue a "we reviewed the comments and too bad so sad" comment to be honest. So the meat of the issue, if 41P is rammed through despite providing no metrics, reports, studies, etc. to base their rule change off of, what options are open? Can a legal injunction or suit be filed to prevent or delay implementation? Could congress/senate even investigate the issue even if we could garner enough interest? Will GOA, SAF, NRA/ILA (NFATCA despite them being in the proverbial doghouse), or any other major action groups pull funds and lawyers to lead the charge, or are we just going to have to suck it up? I finally got into the NFA game and frankly have too much on my list to be shut down now Get a CLEO signature. Its not hard but you will have to have the courage to talk to all the CLEO in your area. Dont read the net where it says they dont sign. In a lot of cases they do and people are scared to ask
scared to ask for a signature? don't forget, guys, that suppressor sales are huge now. it's not a tiny market like NFA guns. so if there is some location where NOBODY will sign, those people are going to get a lot of pressure from the suppressor buyers also, all the suppressor buyers and suppressor vendors will be raising a stink with their congressmen and so forth. the government can dick around with NFA buyers but not without a political kickback Does anyone know of a location where it is virtually impossible to get any signature? Or is everyone just worried about that idea? Again, people are afraid to ask. You've got like 20-30 CLEO you can ask to sign. At least one of them will sign. Its not a probldm getting a CLEO signature, its a problem getting people to go ask. Everyone reads the net saying my CLEO will not sign, but they didnt ask all of them This entire train above has nada to do with what I asked originally... Was hoping some of the industry folks that mill around might have a comment, or at least some of the lawyer type folks. ****And as an aside, I did contact the CLEO offices in question for where I am moving (Williamson County). The issue is Cedar Park CLEO has deferred to WilCo Sheriff, who also responded with a "nope". And anyone else from NOVA can fill you in on the Alexandria City PD/Sheriff/judges/everyone else's stance towards NFA, it's not just a "you're too scared to ask" situation. The current proposal would effectively kill NFA in a number of areas, and I don't think we ought to roll over and say "F*** it". I'm not just looking at me and mine, this is a national issue that will affect many. |
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I think the number one thing to do will be civil disobedience; that is, not filing paperwork for all "responsible persons." Continue to follow your state laws on trusts, and send whatever paperwork you want to the feds. This is going to be like constructive possession - not one person will ever be prosecuted for failing to file appropriate trust change documents unless they are already under investigation for something else.
As far as getting new items, that is going to be a clusterfuck; I can't get signatures here and I am friends with one of the judges that could sign. Gemlin et. al. like to bully those of us who have tried to get signatures (yes from the whole list of capable office-holders) and failed, but reality is these places exist. May their chains rest lightly... yadda yadda yadda. |
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This entire train above has nada to do with what I asked originally... Was hoping some of the industry folks that mill around might have a comment, or at least some of the lawyer type folks. ****And as an aside, I did contact the CLEO offices in question for where I am moving (Williamson County). The issue is Cedar Park CLEO has deferred to WilCo Sheriff, who also responded with a "nope". And anyone else from NOVA can fill you in on the Alexandria City PD/Sheriff/judges/everyone else's stance towards NFA, it's not just a "you're too scared to ask" situation. The current proposal would effectively kill NFA in a number of areas, and I don't think we ought to roll over and say "F*** it". I'm not just looking at me and mine, this is a national issue that will affect many. Quoted:
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I've been trying to keep up with the guntrustlawyer and princelaw blogs as far as the 41P commentary is going, and I am starting to think we might want to start gearing up to fight the inevitable. I figure since it's not a congressional action, and with Holder/new cover-up guy driving the fail bus, there's no doubt in my mind they will just make the change anyway and ignore the feedback. I doubt they'd even issue a "we reviewed the comments and too bad so sad" comment to be honest. So the meat of the issue, if 41P is rammed through despite providing no metrics, reports, studies, etc. to base their rule change off of, what options are open? Can a legal injunction or suit be filed to prevent or delay implementation? Could congress/senate even investigate the issue even if we could garner enough interest? Will GOA, SAF, NRA/ILA (NFATCA despite them being in the proverbial doghouse), or any other major action groups pull funds and lawyers to lead the charge, or are we just going to have to suck it up? I finally got into the NFA game and frankly have too much on my list to be shut down now Get a CLEO signature. Its not hard but you will have to have the courage to talk to all the CLEO in your area. Dont read the net where it says they dont sign. In a lot of cases they do and people are scared to ask
scared to ask for a signature? don't forget, guys, that suppressor sales are huge now. it's not a tiny market like NFA guns. so if there is some location where NOBODY will sign, those people are going to get a lot of pressure from the suppressor buyers also, all the suppressor buyers and suppressor vendors will be raising a stink with their congressmen and so forth. the government can dick around with NFA buyers but not without a political kickback Does anyone know of a location where it is virtually impossible to get any signature? Or is everyone just worried about that idea? Again, people are afraid to ask. You've got like 20-30 CLEO you can ask to sign. At least one of them will sign. Its not a probldm getting a CLEO signature, its a problem getting people to go ask. Everyone reads the net saying my CLEO will not sign, but they didnt ask all of them This entire train above has nada to do with what I asked originally... Was hoping some of the industry folks that mill around might have a comment, or at least some of the lawyer type folks. ****And as an aside, I did contact the CLEO offices in question for where I am moving (Williamson County). The issue is Cedar Park CLEO has deferred to WilCo Sheriff, who also responded with a "nope". And anyone else from NOVA can fill you in on the Alexandria City PD/Sheriff/judges/everyone else's stance towards NFA, it's not just a "you're too scared to ask" situation. The current proposal would effectively kill NFA in a number of areas, and I don't think we ought to roll over and say "F*** it". I'm not just looking at me and mine, this is a national issue that will affect many. Wow you asked all these people and you dont live there yet. 1. Your city Police Chief 2. Your City DA 3. Your County Sheriff 4. Your County DA 5. Your County Judges (all of them) 6. State Police Chief 7. State DA 8. State Judges (all of them) I find it really hard to believe you did. I sense you havent tried and you are scared to ask. And since you dont live there yet, of course they are going to tell you no. |
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I live in Texas and so far I have heard back from 2/3 of the list you just posted and the answer has been no from all of them so far.
I have a trust right now, but figured that I would start asking around just in case this goes threw. So it's not looking good. But thanks for posting because I didn't try the state and county DA. |
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Theres at least 20 CLEO you can ask to sign the forms. Odds are greatly in your favor that at least one will sign. Just dont be afraid to ask Yeah, except that in my county, here in SC of all places, bot the sheriff and the chief of police were 100% against NFA for anyone non LEO (or more like not in their circle of friends). That is why I formed a trust. New guy doesn't seem so bad, though. It was time for the old coot to go. |
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I live in Texas and so far I have heard back from 2/3 of the list you just posted and the answer has been no from all of them so far. I have a trust right now, but figured that I would start asking around just in case this goes threw. So it's not looking good. But thanks for posting because I didn't try the state and county DA. In Texas the State Police Chief signs off on all NFA stuff. You can get a signature |
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To the point of the original question:
If 41P is adopted and someone wants to challenge it, that someone will have to file a form 1 or 4 under a trust or corp without CLEO signoff and the other bullshit in 41P. That person will then have to wait for ATF to reject their application, appeal until all appeals processes are exhausted and then file suit in federal court under the Administrative Procedure Act for judicial review of a bullshit administrative regulation. Fed court "should" overturn the requirement for CLEO signoff for trusts and corps because it is "not in accordance with the law." I "think" that's the way it should play out, but I am not a litigator so I could be way the fuck off. |
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To the point of the original question: If 41P is adopted and someone wants to challenge it, that someone will have to file a form 1 or 4 under a trust or corp without CLEO signoff and the other bullshit in 41P. That person will then have to wait for ATF to reject their application, appeal until all appeals processes are exhausted and then file suit in federal court under the Administrative Procedure Act for judicial review of a bullshit administrative regulation. Fed court "should" overturn the requirement for CLEO signoff for trusts and corps because it is "not in accordance with the law." I "think" that's the way it should play out, but I am not a litigator so I could be way the fuck off. I tend to believe this. First, there have to be actual damages incurred. But I think that there would be a case for claiming denial of due process, etc. Unfortunately, this will require someone with the means to take it to court and all that jazz. The Feds can basically litigate forever given their army of lawyers. But I tend to agree with the OP: we can't take this lying down. Of course, nothing has been rammed through yet, but I don't have a good feeling about this rule change going away. This Administration, as this joke of a human being, AG Holder, have shown a willingness to do what they please when the please. It's a damn shame, really. |
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I tend to believe this. First, there have to be actual damages incurred.. I am not a lawyer, but this has been their defense in the past. Basically unless you go through the process and get rejected by all levels of state and federal options up to and including the supreme court justices and holder they will claim no damages were done because someone will sign before you run that far even if you are tied up months in the process. A non ffl business that had a need for the item might have a case if they lost money while fishing for signers. |
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So basically these "rule changes" have absolutely no oversight, no "check and balance" action. That's mostly what I was looking at. They are in no way obligated to read any commentary, and are more than likely to fish through and cherrypick all those "I agree with this proposal" and tout that as their "97% of Americans agree" anecdote when they implement.
NOW, with the number of states signing "firearm freedom" laws, and especially those lobbying northern mfgs to head south, I think as mentioned before a push to have a state law/reg directing LEO's how to implement NFA sigs would be a good workaround. Set forth an SOP for CLEO/Sheriff to follow that takes the discretion away from them, and comes down to them only rejecting if there are the relevant pending charges, warrants, felonies, etc. That way if they deny you, they have to provide evidence that you can actually challenge in court. Seems to me that the states would have to push this as the Fed has no intention of making the language easier for us. That, or a memorandum or some other legal letter from the Governor/state Congress that removes the "liability" that they like to claim in refusing to sign. I mentioned the companies that are moving south because certain Governors have been personally trying to pimp their state as a home, and I think mfgs might be able to gain some ground if they use the CLEO no-sign issue as something they want out of the way to "sweeten the pot". Just a tactic I had brewing in my head. My bottom line is that state level organizations like VCDL will need to start looking at closing the CLEO "loophole" that lets them deny/decline to sign without due process. Obviously some states will not have this option, and VA now faces a very Dem Governor that would assuredly veto anything of the kind (though the state Senate/House might have the red numbers to overturn). But if we can start knocking out their excuses legally one by one, perhaps we can help more people get into the NFA game. The more we can normalize NFA, get more "regular shooters" to see the benefits of Suppressors for their hunting uses or target practice, the more clout we have when we push the issue politically and legally. |
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In Texas the State Police Chief signs off on all NFA stuff. You can get a signature Quoted:
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I live in Texas and so far I have heard back from 2/3 of the list you just posted and the answer has been no from all of them so far. I have a trust right now, but figured that I would start asking around just in case this goes threw. So it's not looking good. But thanks for posting because I didn't try the state and county DA. In Texas the State Police Chief signs off on all NFA stuff. You can get a signature Abbott also. |
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Abbott also. Quoted:
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I live in Texas and so far I have heard back from 2/3 of the list you just posted and the answer has been no from all of them so far. I have a trust right now, but figured that I would start asking around just in case this goes threw. So it's not looking good. But thanks for posting because I didn't try the state and county DA. In Texas the State Police Chief signs off on all NFA stuff. You can get a signature Abbott also. Out of curiosity, do you know of anyone personally that has gotten a sig from Abbott or McGraw or what the process is to contact them? I can current get local sigs from the Sheriff, but would be interested in verifying backups in the event my current source ever goes away. |
| So I talked to my state examiner today for about 20 min about who I could possibly go to next for a signature as I have been through the sheriff, 6 felony judges, and the state attorney all who which referred me back to the sheriff. I brought up my concern that if this is implemented that my pending forms for cans will be kicked back and no recourse for signature. He said he personally thinks if its put into place that they will grandfather the current forms through which was a bright spot to the convo. Hope he's right bc we can get a signature for anything but cans and sbs. |
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Quoted: Abbott also. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I live in Texas and so far I have heard back from 2/3 of the list you just posted and the answer has been no from all of them so far. I have a trust right now, but figured that I would start asking around just in case this goes threw. So it's not looking good. But thanks for posting because I didn't try the state and county DA. In Texas the State Police Chief signs off on all NFA stuff. You can get a signature Abbott also. |
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They are in no way obligated to read any commentary, and are more than likely to fish through and cherrypick all those "I agree with this proposal" and tout that as their "97% of Americans agree" anecdote when they implement. No, if they want any changes to stick they must respond to all concerns raised in the comment period. Most of the time even fast tracked regulations take at least a month to properly address all comments. |
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No, if they want any changes to stick they must respond to all concerns raised in the comment period. Most of the time even fast tracked regulations take at least a month to properly address all comments. They brushed aside the initial criticisms quite easily in the text of the proposed rulemaking. It's easy to brush aside criticisms when the only groups that can take you to task on the issues are sympathetic to your side. They simply don't give a shit, and no one above ATF will hold them to it. If they do take until mid January 2014, what stops them from applying this to every Form 1/4 not approved as of right now (all 62,000 or whatever the number was), or even worse, from requiring this addition to all existing stamps on trusts? Quite simply, there aren't enough NFA owners to matter at the polls, and they know that most of us are already firmly on the other side anyway. They have every incentive to screw us all. |
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To the point of the original question: If 41P is adopted and someone wants to challenge it, that someone will have to file a form 1 or 4 under a trust or corp without CLEO signoff and the other bullshit in 41P. That person will then have to wait for ATF to reject their application, appeal until all appeals processes are exhausted and then file suit in federal court under the Administrative Procedure Act for judicial review of a bullshit administrative regulation. Fed court "should" overturn the requirement for CLEO signoff for trusts and corps because it is "not in accordance with the law." I "think" that's the way it should play out, but I am not a litigator so I could be way the fuck off. Not necessarily. There are ways to challenge the rule-making process. I promise you that the records are being built and the strategies formulated. I'll not provide any details, but this is far from over. We may not win, but the fight doesn't end on Dec. 9. |
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Getting CLEO is an issue when they are established as blankly refusing all NFA paperwork. Additionally, it is an issue when trust members stretch across multiple police jurisdictions. All of the proposed changes are just going to add to the already ludicrous 15+ month wait. So yeah, it's an issue to me because it's wrong in the first place. Quoted:
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I've been trying to keep up with the guntrustlawyer and princelaw blogs as far as the 41P commentary is going, and I am starting to think we might want to start gearing up to fight the inevitable. I figure since it's not a congressional action, and with Holder/new cover-up guy driving the fail bus, there's no doubt in my mind they will just make the change anyway and ignore the feedback. I doubt they'd even issue a "we reviewed the comments and too bad so sad" comment to be honest. So the meat of the issue, if 41P is rammed through despite providing no metrics, reports, studies, etc. to base their rule change off of, what options are open? Can a legal injunction or suit be filed to prevent or delay implementation? Could congress/senate even investigate the issue even if we could garner enough interest? Will GOA, SAF, NRA/ILA (NFATCA despite them being in the proverbial doghouse), or any other major action groups pull funds and lawyers to lead the charge, or are we just going to have to suck it up? I finally got into the NFA game and frankly have too much on my list to be shut down now Get a CLEO signature. Its not hard but you will have to have the courage to talk to all the CLEO in your area. Dont read the net where it says they dont sign. In a lot of cases they do and people are scared to ask Getting CLEO is an issue when they are established as blankly refusing all NFA paperwork. Additionally, it is an issue when trust members stretch across multiple police jurisdictions. All of the proposed changes are just going to add to the already ludicrous 15+ month wait. So yeah, it's an issue to me because it's wrong in the first place. So is your CLEO one that blatantly refuses? Not all CLEO are that way.. |
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