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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Disapproved (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 11/5/2010 9:27:30 AM EDT
Guess there is a first time for everything. Got this back in the mail yesterday.
It was a transfer to a trust, so the back of the form shouldn't matter. Nothing needs to be filled out, signed, otherwise noted. I didn't check what was on the PDF when I filled it out, because I don't care what is on the back side of the form. Guess I should have. 
The back of the form for reasons for owning it still said zombies from one of the forms I sent in about a year ago for a personal transfer. That one went threw. This one was approved, and then disapproved. Thought that was interesting. The supervisor disapproved it. The form had a stamp on it, you can tell where they ripped it off. Oh well. I spoke to the examiner, she said to send her a new set of forms, she'll stamp it and remail the same day she gets them. She said that she didn't have a problem with it, but I guess they have been told to not approve anything that isn't "all legal reasons" or something of that nature. Nothing cute. She also said they wouldn't approve "because chicks dig MG's" which is another form I had sent in. So word to the wise, don't put anything cute if you want your forms to get approved. They will not approve anything cute. Turn around was super quick, it was signed on Oct 2nd, approved on Oct 25th. Damn speedy. 
But I hadn't seen this before, I'm almost more excited to have a "disapproved" form then getting it in normally. Does that make me weird????? 
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Play stupid cute games, win stupid cute prizes.  ETA: I only say this because when people do stuff like this it draws attention. If a lot of people are doing this, they'll institute some new policy that says any disapproved form must start from the beginning, or require new prints, or new forms, etc. Bureaucrats don't like to be screwed with, in my experience. |
| I agree that it is not wise to "get cute" with these forms, but I'm curious. Do they have the legal authority to request a reason at all? Who decides what reasons are worthy? I was under the impression that the law did not require a reason or need to be met. I'm not sure "Zombies" or "to impress people" have anything illegal about them do they? |
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I agree that it is not wise to "get cute" with these forms, but I'm curious. Do they have the legal authority to request a reason at all? Who decides what reasons are worthy? I was under the impression that the law did not require a reason or need to be met. I'm not sure "Zombies" or "to impress people" have anything illegal about them do they? Well, if you go by what the ATF is saying, slaying zombies is not a legal reason to have one, and either is impressing women. YMMV. |
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I have used "For All Lawful Purposes" on all of my Form 1s. My SOT insists on using "For Investment" on all my Form 4s. I always wanted to try "Chick Magnet," I guess now I will never get a chance. I have one with "chicks dig MG's". There are others that have zombies and the like. Guess that will no longer fly. |
So, if they claim it is illegal, is there a law they can be asked to reference? I'm not aware of any law which make it illegal to posses a weapon simply for ego or to show off. If there is, I feel a lot of people on this forum are in trouble.  I have no interest in poking at the ATF with silly reasons, I'm just curious about where they are pulling this "new" authority from.
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Ms. Santamaria told me that "All legal purposes" was no longer a valid "reason"....I had to change it to T & E...then it got approved. Weird. Curious, Did your form come back "Dissapproved" as well? Not disapproved...it came back, the form was not touched. But it did include a letter stating the reasons it was not approved. I just had to make the changes, initial and send it back in. Then it was only a week and it was back. EDIT: Oh, I just remembered another thing. Evidently NC General Statutes prohibits owning SBRs, suppressors, etc for all reasons except a few that are listed (one of which is T&E). THAT is why I had to change it to T&E. So disregard my statements if they don't apply. |
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I agree that it is not wise to "get cute" with these forms, but I'm curious. Do they have the legal authority to request a reason at all? Who decides what reasons are worthy? I was under the impression that the law did not require a reason or need to be met. I'm not sure "Zombies" or "to impress people" have anything illegal about them do they? I believe there is verbiage (In CFR IIRC) that uses the specific term "reasonable necessity." |
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Ms. Santamaria told me that "All legal purposes" was no longer a valid "reason"....I had to change it to T & E...then it got approved. Weird. That is because of the North Carolina (state) Weapons of Mass Death and Destruction. More or less, the only way for a non-licensee to own one is (in short) if they are a scientist (or the like) posessing it for R&D or T&E type purposes. |
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So, if they claim it is illegal, is there a law they can be asked to reference? I'm not aware of any law which make it illegal to posses a weapon simply for ego or to show off. If there is, I feel a lot of people on this forum are in trouble. I have no interest in poking at the ATF with silly reasons, I'm just curious about where they are pulling this "new" authority from.As much as it sounds foolish, I kind of agree with you on the show-off/ chick's dig one. I believe that somebody could actually articulate a decent justification to substantiate that rationale- that if put into practice would not necesitate illegal activity. The zombie one- should be denied and borders on a false statement. Sci-Fi is NOT real and anybody that honestly thinks they needs a (insert NFA item here) to protect against zombies should probably be checked by a shrink.... (This is not directed at the OP- I know that he is a good guy who put it in for shits and giggles). |
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I agree. My larger point is that I'm curious if we are now at the point where we have to state a reason that is "acceptable" to a some gov't employee. As far as I know, we don't have to give an acceptable reason to purchase or own a weapon in the remaining free parts of the United States. I just figured that ATF form question was just some hold over from earlier stategies to weed out an idiot who might put some reason like "To get revenge on my boss".
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The zombie one- should be denied and borders on a false statement. Sci-Fi is NOT real and anybody that honestly thinks they needs a (insert NFA item here) to protect against zombies should probably be checked by a shrink.... (This is not directed at the OP- I know that he is a good guy who put it in for shits and giggles). |
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I agree. My larger point is that I'm curious if we are now at the point where we have to state a reason that is "acceptable" to a some gov't employee. As far as I know, we don't have to give an acceptable reason to purchase or own a weapon in the remaining free parts of the United States. I just figured that ATF form question was just some hold over from earlier stategies to weed out an idiot who might put some reason like "To get revenge on my boss". Quoted:
The zombie one- should be denied and borders on a false statement. Sci-Fi is NOT real and anybody that honestly thinks they needs a (insert NFA item here) to protect against zombies should probably be checked by a shrink.... (This is not directed at the OP- I know that he is a good guy who put it in for shits and giggles). I believe that the main things they are looking for are a combination of honesty and legal compliance...based on what I've seen/ heard thus far, I am not too worried about arbitrary and capracious denials at the whim of a disgruntled bureaucrat. |
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I agree. My larger point is that I'm curious if we are now at the point where we have to state a reason that is "acceptable" to a some gov't employee. As far as I know, we don't have to give an acceptable reason to purchase or own a weapon in the remaining free parts of the United States. I just figured that ATF form question was just some hold over from earlier stategies to weed out an idiot who might put some reason like "To get revenge on my boss". Quoted:
The zombie one- should be denied and borders on a false statement. Sci-Fi is NOT real and anybody that honestly thinks they needs a (insert NFA item here) to protect against zombies should probably be checked by a shrink.... (This is not directed at the OP- I know that he is a good guy who put it in for shits and giggles). I believe that the main things they are looking for are a combination of honesty and legal compliance...based on what I've seen/ heard thus far, I am not too worried about arbitrary and capracious denials at the whim of a disgruntled bureaucrat. So would the over throw of a tyranny .gov work? I mean, that is what the 2nd was all about, right??
Or how about to level the playing field against invasions from enemies, foreign and domestic? Or would that just get me put on a list?
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i dont really understand why people put stupid stuff in that box and then get mad it doesn't get approved, seems like a no brainer to me but hey who am I to say I don't think anyone's mad about the dissapproval, it's still being approved, .gov just wants a new form without the cute stuff . Being delayed, like what, another 2 weeks on the outside, damn, that's still better (read - quicker) than most others forms have been. |
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The whole reason they want you to list the reason is because people are stupid enough to write down "rob a bank!" I have watched people put "yes" in the felon box on 4473's! Instant disapproval. I don't recommend playing games with the BATFE, unless you like small concrete rooms with no windows. |
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i dont really understand why people put stupid stuff in that box and then get mad it doesn't get approved, seems like a no brainer to me but hey who am I to say Because the box is asinine and should not even be on the form. their game, their rules. deal with it. |
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Ms. Santamaria told me that "All legal purposes" was no longer a valid "reason"....I had to change it to T & E...then it got approved. Weird. You're dealing with NC law there. Only legal reasons in NC are for testing, research, evaluation, etc. Yeah, I clarified...I was tired when I made my first post
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Quoted: And therein lies some of the problem. Quoted: Quoted: i dont really understand why people put stupid stuff in that box and then get mad it doesn't get approved, seems like a no brainer to me but hey who am I to say Because the box is asinine and should not even be on the form. their game, their rules. deal with it. They have a history of making them up, then changing them, as they play the game............ ".......................shall not be infringed." OUR RULES. Defined by a really old piece of paper that apparently is getting harder and harder for the .gov to comprehend.   Jus' Sayin' |
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So would the over throw of a tyranny .gov work? I mean, that is what the 2nd was all about, right??
Or how about to level the playing field against invasions from enemies, foreign and domestic? Or would that just get me put on a list? I do believe by owning an NFA toy you already ARE on a list. A list that is checked immediatly when a weapon is used in a crime anywhere near your area. I bet most users on this site are on "the list" due to googling many of the search terms we all use everytime we are shopping for gun parts. |
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I understand why the zombie reason was rejected however, I see no reason why the chick response should be rejected. It's not illegal, chicks are sometimes impressed by a guy shooting a MG and unfortunately, some guys need a little assistance in the mojo department (which a MG can help).
My next form 1 will list the chick reason 
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So would the over throw of a tyranny .gov work? I mean, that is what the 2nd was all about, right??
Or how about to level the playing field against invasions from enemies, foreign and domestic? Or would that just get me put on a list? I do believe by owning an NFA toy you already ARE on a list. A list that is checked immediatly when a weapon is used in a crime anywhere near your area. I bet most users on this site are on "the list" due to googling many of the search terms we all use everytime we are shopping for gun parts. True. I'm not too worried about it. If they want me, they know where to find me. |
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you obviously weren't expecting to get dissaproved for putting something stupid on official paperwork "guess there's a first time for everything" You have anger issues? Damn. And because you think its a "stupid" reason on "official paperwork" you don't have to get your panties in a bunch. File your own paperwork. We shouldn't even have the paperwork. If you are angry about anything, be angry about that. 
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I understand why the zombie reason was rejected however, I see no reason why the chick response should be rejected. It's not illegal, chicks are sometimes impressed by a guy shooting a MG and unfortunately, some guys need a little assistance in the mojo department (which a MG can help). My next form 1 will list the chick reason I'd be interested to see how that turns out. Like I said, my form was approved by the examiner, but the super disapproved it. I wasn't even trying, it was just still in the PDF file from the last personal transfer I did. |
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you obviously weren't expecting to get dissaproved for putting something stupid on official paperwork "guess there's a first time for everything" You have anger issues? Damn. And because you think its a "stupid" reason on "official paperwork" you don't have to get your panties in a bunch. File your own paperwork. We shouldn't even have the paperwork. If you are angry about anything, be angry about that. haha i'm not mad about anything, you're right, we shouldn't have to fill anything out |
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So would the over throw of a tyranny .gov work? I mean, that is what the 2nd was all about, right??
Or how about to level the playing field against invasions from enemies, foreign and domestic? Or would that just get me put on a list? I do believe by owning an NFA toy you already ARE on a list. A list that is checked immediatly when a weapon is used in a crime anywhere near your area. I bet most users on this site are on "the list" due to googling many of the search terms we all use everytime we are shopping for gun parts. I can't fathom them hitting up the NFRTR every-time there is a shooting somewhere. I couldn't see LE getting permission to go on such fishing expeditions through confidential tax info without having more cause than "somebody was shot..." |
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Santamaria kicked back my form 1 for not having a back side (my previous 6 approved forms were my template) and not having my C&R FFL info in box 5
MO requires an FFL for all NFA possession so I always enclose a copy of it with my form 1 but the form wants a 15 digit number and the C&R doesn't match that description. She approved the form but stated that all future ones should have the C&R info in the box and a two sided form. Seems like they are becoming a little more anal about what gets approved. |
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So would the over throw of a tyranny .gov work? I mean, that is what the 2nd was all about, right??
Or how about to level the playing field against invasions from enemies, foreign and domestic? Or would that just get me put on a list? I do believe by owning an NFA toy you already ARE on a list. A list that is checked immediatly when a weapon is used in a crime anywhere near your area. I bet most users on this site are on "the list" due to googling many of the search terms we all use everytime we are shopping for gun parts. I can't fathom them hitting up the NFRTR every-time there is a shooting somewhere. I couldn't see LE getting permission to go on such fishing expeditions through confidential tax info without having more cause than "somebody was shot..." You'd be surprised. Remember during the DC shootings? Doors where knocked on with people who owned suppressors. |
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Playing devils advocate; here's another angle to consider, they are just peeps doing their job. Hear me out. Suppose an NFA item is used in a crime. Dot gov pulls the forms to ensure that they were approved properly. Suddenly some supervisor notices zombies or chicks as a reason. Now that 9-5 employee has her tit in the wringer cause she approved it. And you know that form is going to end up being used in court by one side or the other. So maybe that employee is just playing CYA or following orders. Something to consider. That said there shouldn't be a form in the first place and the answer to the question shouldn't have any bearing on approval. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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So would the over throw of a tyranny .gov work? I mean, that is what the 2nd was all about, right??
Or how about to level the playing field against invasions from enemies, foreign and domestic? Or would that just get me put on a list? I do believe by owning an NFA toy you already ARE on a list. A list that is checked immediatly when a weapon is used in a crime anywhere near your area. I bet most users on this site are on "the list" due to googling many of the search terms we all use everytime we are shopping for gun parts. I can't fathom them hitting up the NFRTR every-time there is a shooting somewhere. I couldn't see LE getting permission to go on such fishing expeditions through confidential tax info without having more cause than "somebody was shot..." You'd be surprised. Remember during the DC shootings? Doors where knocked on with people who owned suppressors. Heck, Do you blame them??? They didnt even have a clue where to start with that shit Im putting "To expand my personal collection" |
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Playing devils advocate; here's another angle to consider, they are just peeps doing their job. Hear me out. Suppose an NFA item is used in a crime. Dot gov pulls the forms to ensure that they were approved properly. Suddenly some supervisor notices zombies or chicks as a reason. Now that 9-5 employee has her tit in the wringer cause she approved it. And you know that form is going to end up being used in court by one side or the other. So maybe that employee is just playing CYA or following orders. Something to consider. That said there shouldn't be a form in the first place and the answer to the question shouldn't have any bearing on approval. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile So I can't own something because I want to impress women? 
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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Disapproved (Page 1 of 2)
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