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Posted: 2/3/2009 5:32:27 PM EDT
| Is it possible for a civilian to purchase a select fire or auto firearm without spending $10k or more? |
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I think you can still get MAC10s for $3200-3500.00, RR UZIs for ~7k UZI bolts for ~5K, Ar15 Lightning links for ~7k, and you can get non colt, converted ar15 receiver M16s for 9k maybe better.
You'll have to keep your cash handy and keep your eyes peeled. Check out http://www.sturmgewehr.com/ & http://subguns.com/boards/ . |
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Quoted:
But I do not understand why you cannot buy a select fire AR at a decent price. What am I missing? The Firearms Owner Protection Act of 1986 included a provision that effective May 19, 1986, all machineguns were illegal for civilian ownership, but provided an affirmative defense against prosecution if you could prove the MG was legally owned and registered prior to that date. For the last 22 years (since May 19, 1986), the supply of transferable (able to be owned by civilians) machine guns has been slowly shrinking, while demand has soared –– thanks in part to the internet, which has spread the word that machine guns can be legally owned. Today there are about 150,000 existing machine guns which can be owned by civilians, including tens of thousands still in LE inventories, and many others owned by large collections and museums. The practical number is well under 100,000. Increasing demand + shrinking supply = prices going through the roof. After 22 years of this, we are left with a few very expensive machine guns. 
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Quoted:
But I do not understand why you cannot buy a select fire AR at a decent price. What am I missing? Those are decent prices as dictated by the current market. To put it into perspective, when Reed Knight was bidding on FA MAC's during the MAC bankruptcy auction, he bought 750 of them for $11k. The bids were $600 for an entire pallet of 100 MAC-10's. So the next time someone mentions that FOPA is good or the NRA looks out for gun owners, just remember that both had parts in the destruction of the civilian MG ownership. |
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Quoted:
That makes sense. But what about the online videos you see with full auto pistols and rimfire ARs? I am not trying to start trouble, I am just trying to fully understand. Well, there are some videos online of me shooting mine (like this one of my suppressed M169 9mm submachinegun upper on my M16A1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSywfVdz_0g ... but I bought 'em back when they were cheap. You don't want to know what they cost way back when. Other videos are posted by folks who scrimped and saved for years. They finally managed to buy registered MGs, so they posted videos of themselves and their friends shooting them. Who wouldn't? In addition, some of the videos you see are posted by individuals who are licensed as manufacturers. That license costs them over $200 per month, and they cannot keep their MGs once they give up the license, so yeah, they post vids to celebrate the good times while tey got 'em. Finally, there are online videos posted by felons who illegally convert semis to full-auto. There is no shortage of idiots who are willing to break the law, document that felony on film, and then post it on the internet. Darwin is still at work today. 
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Quoted:
That makes sense. But what about the online videos you see with full auto pistols and rimfire ARs? I am not trying to start trouble, I am just trying to fully understand. There are pre 86 registered machine pistols out there and the rimfire AR is just a ceiner kit or ceiner upper on a registered M16/LL/RDIAS. Also, there are plenty of dealers out there that can acquire or build modern machine guns. |
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Rimfires are conversion uppers attached to a basic M16 (or converted AR-15) full auto lower - no new machineguns involved in making those, just clever modifications to a modular system.
All the other cool guns you see are the result of licensed dealers and manufacturers acquiring or building those G36's and Glock 18's. Those people are in the business of buying, selling and manufacturing machineguns of all kinds, and are licensed to do so by the BATFE. They acquire and build those guns for law enforcement sales and sales demonstrations, for fun, and to rent out, a magazine or belt at a time, at machinegun shoots. Even though a manufacturer can convert a new AR-15 into a full auto for the cost of the host gun (less than $1000 at wholesale) and a little machining time, they're paying upwards of $250 a month to maintain the licenses they need to do that, they need to be actively engaged in the business of making, buying and selling machine guns to get the chance to maintain those licenses, and probably have tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of dollars invested in their premises, inventory and equipment to do so. About the very cheapest way you could possibly get your hands on "reasonably priced" new full autos would be to become a small-town machinegun dealer with a minimum of inventory, who's lifelong buddies with the local police chief or sheriff. You might come in under $30,000 to set up such a business, and keep yourself going with some sweetheart deals with the local PD or sheriff's office to do demos, and some internet sales. $3000 for a transferrable MAC10 starts to seem like a (relative) bargain when you look at those numbers. |
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