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Posted: 7/5/2008 8:46:08 AM EDT
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My old man was talking with a class 3 dealer the other day and had mentioned he bought a few dewat 1928s that came with paperwork. The class 3 guy said he could form1 these back into MGs. Anyone ever heard of this? BTW the paperwork is missing so Im guessing the ATF would have to have records on these to prove where they came from. These were purchased 30+ years ago. |
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Tag for the answer. I've been told it is possible if you have the paperwork. I don't know if the BATF keeps that kind of stuff on file for you though. I know a Widow with a Dewatted Colt 1919A6 . It would be cool to hear it sing again, but she can't find her husband's paperwork. |
Prior to the Gun Control Act of 1968, dewats were not required to be registered. GCA '68 reclassified them as legal machine guns, and they had to be registered in the 1968 amnesty. If they were not registered then, they are contraband. So what you need is the amnesty registration paperwork. BATFE may or may not have a copy on file, so it's a crapshoot if the owner does not have a copy. Note that if it is registered, the widow will have to Form 5 it into her own name before filing the Form 1 or Form 2 to reactivate it. And FYI, the individual (F1) or FFL (F2) performing the reactivation will have to engrave their info on the reactivated dewat. If it's a high-value collectible like a Thompson, it's worth checking the specialist forums to find out which engraving locating will have the least negative impact on its value. |
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EDITED based upon new evidence- please see below! 1. My examiner told me that the gun is already a papered machine gun- just an "unservicable" one. As I wasn't making a new NFA item - just making an existing NFA item servicable - engraving was NOT necessary. HOWEVER, this may or may not be true/accurate. Please see a few posts down! 2. C&R DEWATs retain their C&R status. 3. Individuals may reactivate on a tax-paid Form 1. He did request that a copy of the original Form 5 DEWAT paperwork be included with the submission along with the standard Form 1 stuff to stop any confusion before it begins. 4. A Class II may reactivate on a Form 2 to reactivate a DEWAT. (There's a special box to be checked on the Form 2 just for DEWAT reactivation.) My examiner said that I needed to fill out a Form 5 to get to a C2 with reason of "temporary transfer for reactivation." He advised that while not required, this would stop questions over unlawful transfer. (Temp transfer for repair and then return to owner is one thing. Temp transfer with a status change and having to file a Form 3 or Form 4 to return to the owner is another.) My examiner further recommended that DEWAT reactivations be done on their own Form 2 so as to not confuse anybody- in other words, the Class II shouldn't have the DEWAT reactivation and a bunch of whatever elses on the same form. (i.e. "You can't reactivate these whatevers- they're not on the registry in the first place!") Once reactivated by a C2, the REWAT transfers to other SOTs on a tax-free Form 3 or to non-SOTs on a tax-paid Form 4. FYI, Mike |
The same places you buy registered MGs.  Most of the remaining unreactivated DEWATs are in collections and estates owned by folks who do not surf the internet. You come across them at estate sales or liquidations. I know couple of attorneys who specialize in handling estates, and I've made them promise to call me if MGs ever show up. They are not gun people, but I convinced them (by giving them the legal references) that MGs are indeed legal if registered, and that they are very valuable. However, I've been seeding these waters for more than a decade and have not gotten a call to date. FWIW, for all practical purposes, there is zero difference in market value between live MGs and registered DEWATS. At most, you might get one for two or three hundred $$$ less that a live counterpart. More than 90% of DEWATs are also C&R guns, and you're generally talking in five figures and up. Now, you might get lucky and manage to locate a widow, then lie to her about values and rob her blind. I couldn't do that, but I know there are lots of folks out there who prey on grieving families. 
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I was looking more info up on CADMUS IND. which is stamped on these and found the atfabuse website that said alot of the paperwork for cadmus couldnt be found in the atf records. Looks like he will have to write in to the atf and request any ifo on these serial numbers. |
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FYI, I've edited my post about not needing to mark DEWATS. TonyK and I have been talking over IM about this. TonyK brings up some points that are DEFINITELY worth considering. 1. BATFE's NFA Handbook says rewatting DEWATS is manufacturing/making a new NFA weapon. While C&R status is retained (if it is a C&R item), there's no listed exemption for DEWAT engraving. 2. Bob Naess of Black River Militaria has probably handled more DEWATs than this board's entire membership will ever see if their lifetimes. While he IS a purist and loves historical authenticity, he marks them when he rewats them based upon his understanding of the law. I'm operating under the assumption that engraving is not necessary. This is because: 1. My examiner told me that the gun is already a papered machine gun- just an "unservicable" one. He states that I wouldn't be making a new NFA item - just making an existing NFA item servicable - engraving was NOT necessary. FYI, this was before the NFA handbook came out and said that rewatting DEWATS is manufacturing/making a new NFA weapon. Based upon TonyK's evidence and the ATF manual, I'm leaning toward engraving being necessary. I'm changing my advice toward engrave it OR call ATF and get their answer in writing. Keep in mind that this isn't settled law; no reg speaks specifically to marking of REWAT DEWATs. Been wrong before and will be wrong again, Mike |
If that is true, then no MGs can be re-watted, by non MIL/LEO agencies due to 922(o). I personally do not believe anything in the NFA Handbook, it is so riddled with errors. |
BATFE has always found creative new applications for wording that forges new paths in the English language.  In this case, Mike's quote is slightly inaccurate: It's not that ATF "says rewatting DEWATS is manufacturing/making a new NFA weapon" ... instead, it says that the reactivation of a registered DEWAT constitutes a making/manufacturing process. The DEWAT machine gun is already in the Registry, and retains its C&R status, so reactivation is not the same as making/manufacturing a new NFA weapon. Instead, it is moved from one category (inoperable registered MG) to another (live registered MG), and ATF says that that reclassification constitutes "making/manufacturing" in large part because the transformation is, and must be, legally authorized via a Form 1 or Form 2. In effect, by requiring a Form 1 (to make) or Form 2 (notice of manufacture) to reactivate a DEWAT, the approval process itself defines the reclassification as making or manufacturing. Having spent too long watching ATF angels dance on the heads of pins, this actually makes sense to me. Well, as much sense as any ATF reg, and it does show a certain consistency. Some day I am going to write to Tech Branch for a ruling on whether the chicken or the egg came first.
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 nice! anyhow, to the OP, good luck buying and then "re-wating" any machine guns in CA. |
I live in Nevada LE sign off= 24hrs and 48 if hes busy. I used to live in CA but never changed my deal...I guess I could figure it if it wigs folks out.Already own 4 class3 items and Im working on more. |
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