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Posted: 3/18/2008 1:59:51 PM EDT
| CAN ANYONE ADVISE ME ON THE PROCESS FOR APPLYING FOR A CLASS 3 PERMIT IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA. I AM LEO HOWEVER WOULD LIKE TO PURCHASE ONE FOR MYSELF. ANY INFORMATION WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED. SBR, AUTO AND SUPPRESSOR INFO PLEASE. THANKS IN ADVANCE |
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Fill out this form ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/FD030DWApp.pdf and mail it in with the applicable fees. Wait. Once, you are approved. Find a CA 01-FFL Class 3 SOT dealer and purchase the Title 2 firearm you want. After you pay for it, fill out a Form 4 (5320.4) and mail it with $200 to the BATFE. Wait. Once, you are approved. Go back to the CA 01-FFL Class 3 dealer and give him a copy of your approved Form 4 & tax stamp. Take home Title 2 firearm and enjoy. Pay CA DOJ a yearly fee to maintain the permit to own the Title 2 firearm in CA. Expect, CA DOJ to do yearly inspections of the Title 2 firearm. |
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I don't think CA DOJ is in the habit of issuing permits for NFA stuff. Also, storage and transportation restrictions are a pain. FWIW, there are no restrictions on AOW in CA. And C&R SBS/SBR are exempt as well. www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=82693 |
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In California, LEO cannot privately own NFA any more readily than a citizen. The CA DOJ issues permits for almost each individual category, SBR, MG, suppressors, etc, but they are not applicable to average citizens nor LEOs individually. The permit process assumes a business-related need for the Title II weapons, either sales to LE or Gov't/military, manufacturing for LE or Gov't/military or for use in motion picture/TV production. In all cases, permits are not issued on speculation, i,e, you've always wanted to break into the business, you want to to try it out, etc. You must prove bonafide existing business or relationships. The permit qualifiers are very expensive including insurance, secure storage and secure transportation. A trigger lock and a Medeco deadbolt on your front door are laughable by comparison to the permit's requirements. But the biggest catch to the DOJ permit assuming you can actually qualify is that the permit does not allow you to take the guns out to the range for simple fun. Repair verification, test fire, demo to LE or movie, yes, but not just to enjoy. The only permit that DOJ entertains for private, non-business use is the Destructive Device Collector's Permit. It has all the secure storage, secure transport and insurance requirements, but does allow you to not be engaged in business. The biggest caveat with this one is that you are not allowed to actually fire any DD acquired under the permit. The permit assumes literal collecting/display purposes only. Curiously however, CA state law does not prohibit the acquisition by private citizens of AOWs or C&R Short-Barreled Shotguns as long as they are acquired and possessed pursuant to federal law. People have been forming Trusts and trying to get Form 4s and Form 1s approved, but this is so contrary to current DOJ culture that I'm quite certain that there will be some arrests and attempted-prosecutions for this. |
All of us here only wish it were that easy.... |
| After Berkley, I say f the whole state. I would be ashamed to be a LEO in Kali. THe reason being, these idiots pay me to protect them, but do not trust me to have my own weapon. Let's let them fend for themselves from Sur 13, Vatos Locos, or whatever other gangs out there. |
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STATE NFA RESTRICTIONS Here is my attempt to list what state allows what in terms of NFA weapons. The "Y" indicates state law allows private individuals to own the weapon in question. Most of the "Y" states require the weapons be possessed in compliance with federal law to be legal under state law. Some of the "N" states may allow only police officers to possess them, or dealers, or neither. Basically if the privileged class was so narrow, by statute, I said "N". In many states the class of folks able to own NFA weapons is narrow by practice (California), or because no law enforcement officers will sign the certification needed for a transfer to an individual. Some of the "N" states may also have grandfathered weapons, the "N" applies to a current transaction. Some "N" states may also allow unserviceable weapons. Some states may regulate one or more of these weapons as handguns. KEY MG - machine gun SI - sound suppressor (silencer) SR - short barreled rifle SG - short shotgun AOW - any other weapon LBDD - large bore destructive device EXPDD - explosive, incendiary or poison gas destructive device STATEMG SI SR SG AOWLBDD EXPDD Comments AK Y Y Y Y Y Y Y AL Y Y N N Y Y ? AR Y Y Y Y Y Y ? (state registration of pistol cal. MG's over .30) AZ Y Y Y Y Y Y Y CA Y N Y Y Y Y Y (requires discretionary and rarely issued permit for mg, lbdd or expdd from state Dept. of Justice; no AOW pen guns; C&R sg, sr only) CO Y Y Y Y Y Y Y (requires state explosives permit for expdd) CT Y Y Y Y Y Y ? (no select fire mg's-full auto's only, after 1993 assault weapon ban, state registration of mg's) DE N N Y N Y Y N (no smooth bore pistol AOW's) FL Y Y Y Y Y Y Y GA Y Y Y Y Y Y Y (no incendiary expdd's) HI N N N N N N N IA N Y Y Y Y Y Y (only si, sr, sg, lbdd and expdd designated as collector's items by the Comm'r of Public Safety - they use the ATF C&R list) ID Y Y Y Y Y Y Y IL N N N N Y ? N IN Y Y Y N Y Y N KS N N Y N Y Y N DEWAT machine guns are OK. KY Y Y Y Y Y Y ? LA Y Y Y Y Y Y Y (mg's require a permit to purchase - war relics only; mg's, sr, si, sg and some expdd's require a permit to purchase) MA Y N Y N N Y N (license for mg's required; 1998 law bans covert firearms (AOW's), short shotguns) MD Y Y Y Y Y Y N (mg's must be registered) ME Y Y Y Y Y Y Y MI Y N Y Y Y Y Y (FFL needed to own machine guns; no incendiary expdd; C&R sr, sg only) MN Y N Y Y Y Y ? (C&R mg, sg only, registration required) MO Y N Y Y Y N N (C&R mg, sr, sg only to non-FFL holders; FFL holders (including C&R) any mg, sr, sg) MS Y Y Y Y Y Y Y (as of 7/1/00, silencers are legal, but must be registered with the state) MT Y Y Y Y Y N N (state law banning silencers and requiring pistol cal. mg's over .30 be registered with state repealed 4/23/99) NE Y Y Y Y Y Y N NC Y Y Y Y Y Y Y (sheriff's permit required for mg's; must be FFL holder (including C&R) for mg, si, sr, sg lbdd and expdd, or fall into another exception, see comments below) ND Y Y Y Y Y Y Y (fed. "licensees" required to register all NFA weapons with state when possessed for "protection or sale") NH Y Y Y Y Y Y Y NJ Y N N N Y N N (mg requires discretionary and rarely issued permit from state court) NM Y Y Y Y Y Y Y NV Y Y Y Y Y Y Y NY N N N N Y Y N (AOW smooth bore handguns are allowed, on a state pistol license) OH Y Y Y Y Y Y Y OK Y Y Y Y Y Y Y OR Y Y Y Y Y Y Y (no incendiary expdd's) PA Y Y Y Y Y Y N RI N N N N Y Y ? SC Y Y Y Y Y Y ? In 2001, S.C. law was changed to permit all Federally registered items SD Y Y Y Y Y Y Y TN Y Y Y Y Y Y ? TX Y Y Y Y Y Y Y UT Y Y Y Y Y Y Y VA Y Y Y Y Y Y Y (state registration of all mg's) VT Y N Y Y Y Y Y WA N Y N N Y Y N (silencer may not be used on a gun) WI Y Y Y Y Y Y Y (permit required for expdd, no incendiary expdd's; no pistol caliber mg's w/o permit) WV Y Y Y Y Y Y ? WY Y Y Y Y Y Y ? ------------------------------------------------------------ A Note about NFA Weapons and California As a general rule the definitions of NFA weapons, as regulated in California, track exactly the federal definitions, and categories. Cal. Penal Code Sec. 12020(a) prohibits the possession of, among other things, AOW's (Any other Weapons) and short shotguns and short rifles. Subsection (b) lists exemptions to the application of (a). Subsection (b)(7) of section 12020 exempts any "firearm or ammunition" lawfully possessed under federal law and on the C&R list. Subsection (b)(8), exempts ALL AOW's except "pen guns." Subsection b(2) is the exemption for the movie permit for short shotguns and short rifles with the procedure for its issuance found at section 12095. In short, Californians can legally possess any AOW, except a pen gun, as long as it is possessed in compliance with federal law, and as long as it isn't classified as an assault weapon (SB 23 treats some semiauto pistols with dual pistol grips, AOWs under federal law, as prohibited assault weapons). Likewise they can possess any C&R listed short rifle or short shotgun. Short shotguns and short rifles are defined at (c)(1) and (c)(2) respectively; the definitions are essentially the same as federal law. HOWEVER, unlike the feds, California courts have ruled that the length of a rifle with a folding stock is measured with the stock folded, not extended, as the feds do. So a gun that is not a short rifle under federal law may be one under California law. See People v. Rooney, 17 Cal.App.4th 1207 (1 Dist. 1993). Any firearm whose possession is otherwise prohibited by subsection (a) is ok, under b(7), if the gun is a C&R one and lawfully possessed under federal law. This would not provide an exemption to the requirement for a state permit for a machine gun, as 12020(a) does not regulate mg's. That is section 12220 (ban) and 12230 et seq. (permits). Rules for DD's are at section 12301 et seq. Silencers are regulated at section 12500 et seq. The state Department of Justice has discretionary authority to issue permits to possess DD's or machine guns, and does not issue them to collector-civilians. Civilians are totally prohibited from owning silencers. |
Not quite. AOWs cannot be pen guns and cannot meet any CA AWB definitions. Furthermore, there is some question as to whether an AOW "shotgun" is lawful- i.e. does CA recognize the difference between a pistol-grip only shotgun and a buttstocked shotgun or do they view them as the same thing? Another question is if CA allows for handguns that can fire shot? Furthermore, even if they do recognize the difference, are they exempt from the handgun testing /roster requirement? I don't have these answers- wish I did. Can anybody cite a source or sources that answer these questions? Mike |
Little doubt that CA law does not allow handguns that fire shotgun shells, such as the Thunder-5 or the Taurus Judge pistol. These are clearly Short-Barreled Shotguns under CA law and, while not requiring federal NFA paperwork, these would require a DOJ Short-Barreled Shotgun Permit to acquire. An AOW shotgun is bit of a different situation since its already established and defined as an AOW by federal law. With the single exception of Pen Guns, which are banned separately and specifically, California state law explicitly defers to the federal GCA '68 definition and regulation of "Any Other Weapons." An AOW shotgun is still an AOW under CA law despite being a shotgun with a short barrel. Under the NFA, an AOW shotgun is technically a "Smooth-Bore Pistol' which could trigger a mandatory safety certification prior to importation and sale in CA under CHAPTER 1.3. UNSAFE HANDGUNS of California's Dangerous Weapons Control Law (the infamous Handgun Safety Law). As I said, these issues are SO far outside the current DOJ culture that there will NEVER be a definitive answer that doesn't come from a criminal court verdict. Anyone willing to test these theories should not do so outside the active participation of their CLEO, i.e. do not do it using a Trust or a Corp. While certainly legal to acquire NFA using a Trust, it is circumventing the very law enforcement interaction that could keep you out of prison. If you can get the CLEO signature on the Form 4 or Form 1 for an AOW or a C&R SBS, then you have a powerful defense exhibit since your CLEO effectively gave you permission to acquire it. If you can't get the signature, then you should rethink your desire to have one here. Use of Trusts and Corps to acquire NFA is perfectly legal, but is growing in popularity far faster than most LE's understanding of the NFA. This will bite hard and deep in CA where you will pay dearly for the privilege of proving yourself right. Remember, California DOJ and LE is still conducting regular raids and arrests for Off-List Lower/ Bullet Button semi-autos. A "sawed-off shotgun" is exponentially worse. |
CA does not differentiate between an SBS and an AOW. They state if it can shot a shotgun shell and is less than 18"/26", then it is an SBS. Per 12020, an SBS is illegal unless it falls under a slew of exemptions. One of those exemptions is,
If the firearm is classified as an AOW by the feds and is not a pen gun, then it is exempt from 12020. That makes AOW shotguns legal in CA. This exemption can't be used to bypass CA AW restrictions by registering a semi-auto pistol as an AOW by putting a forward grip it to remove it from the AW rules.
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