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Posted: 5/9/2016 11:13:50 AM EDT
So I have here what is apparently a Model 1817 Common Rifle. It belonged to the brother of a work friend who recently passed. My work friend gave it to me and asked if I could get it cleaned up. Before I asked over on gunboards, I had no idea what this was other than a 19th century percussion cap rifle. Apparently these were originally flintlock and later converted to percussion cap. It has also been cut down several inches. I'm trying to find an approximate value, and I'd also like to know how to clean this without destroying what lies underneath the rust and grime. I'd at least like it cleaned up enough to find out which maker it is, and if there are any date stamps and such on it.
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I'm no help on valuation, nor would I posture myself as an expert on restoring old flint / percussion rifles, but I can tell you that there is probably considerable goodness under all that rust and grime, and "slow, careful, and gentle" is the order of the day.
While it is not a British rifle, the folks over at the British Militaria Forum have extensive discussions on gently and correctly restoring similar-vintage rifles, as well as "modern" ones like Martini-Henrys, Sniders, etc. The principles will remain the same. I can attest to the efficacy of Kramer's, the 50/50 acetone/ATF mix, microcrystalline wax, etc. One of our members here (elcope, I think) posted a very nice in-depth tutorial on his restoration of a Martini-Henry from the Nepal cache. It's probably gone to the archives by now, but had a wealth of good info / helpful hints, etc. |
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I had considered that. My main concern I think is the stock. I'd like to get it cleaned and rejuvenated without refinishing or damaging it. Quoted:
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build an electrolysis tank I had considered that. My main concern I think is the stock. I'd like to get it cleaned and rejuvenated without refinishing or damaging it. Acetone....it will not hurt the stock, and will leech out the oils and dirt... But it has to be pure acetone, not nail polish remover stuff.... It does a great job pulling out decades worth of oil soaking....wear glove if you have sensitive skin, it can give you contact dermatitis, since it will pull the oils out of your skin...won't hurt you, but you may find it irritating. I do not, but YMMV.... And don't listen to anyone who says "that will hurt the wood"...nonsense...it evaporates quickly and completely, and will not hurt the wood...in fact you may need to find a way to keep it wet long enough to pull out the oils...possibly a soaking tub, like for wallpaper, but it can't be plastic... You can steam the dents, but they will only steam out completely if they are just dents, if the wood fibers are broken, they could be made to look better, but will not disappear.... Once cleaned, you will need to re-oil with BLO for a proper period type finish...but I bet it will come out beautiful... |
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Can you read anything on the lock? It should be dated vertically behind the hammer with the maker horizontally behind the large screw on the lockplate.
And for goodness sake, before you start dipping and cleaning, try to find out what it is. There are several different conversions of this rifle. |
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Can you read anything on the lock? It should be dated vertically behind the hammer with the maker horizontally behind the large screw on the lockplate. And for goodness sake, before you start dipping and cleaning, try to find out what it is. There are several different conversions of this rifle. Lol that's what I'm trying to do. While my interests have move away from C&R weapons, I have not forgotten the importance of keeping things original and unadulterated. |
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Lol that's what I'm trying to do. While my interests have move away from C&R weapons, I have not forgotten the importance of keeping things original and unadulterated. Quoted:
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Can you read anything on the lock? It should be dated vertically behind the hammer with the maker horizontally behind the large screw on the lockplate. And for goodness sake, before you start dipping and cleaning, try to find out what it is. There are several different conversions of this rifle. Lol that's what I'm trying to do. While my interests have move away from C&R weapons, I have not forgotten the importance of keeping things original and unadulterated. So what, if anything does the lock say? It looks to be a bolster-type conversion w/o a clean out screw, which could indicate conversion around the middle of the Civil War. Any remnants of an inspection mark on the left flat of the stock? Anything visible on the barrel at the breech or is it too crispy? Is it loaded? Is it rifled? |
Ok, so I got the rifle mostly disassembled today. I can't get the pin out that holds the trigger in place, so I'll have to revisit that. I've soaked the metal in penetrating oil and have been rubbing it (lightly) with 0000 steel wool. It doesn't seem to be pitted too bad, and the underside of the barrel is still silver in color. The lock mechanism is has all kinds of P stamps on the parts, and it looks to be Deringer marked. I can't find any dates on it. The barrel has P stamps in addition to several "XXVIII" stamps. That same numeral stamp is also inside the patchbox. The inside of the barrel is rusty like the outside, but the rifling still looks pretty good. It may actually clean up nice. It is definitely cut down though. Barrel is only 29 inches with a little bead soldered on for the front sight. So any more ideas on value? I think I may offer to buy it from the guy if they are definitely going to sell it. I believe he said they were going to try and sell it to a local gun shop. And pics of my findings of course:
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Side pics of the bolster/breech and the top breech/tang area of the barrel?
This could be something interesting. Deringer made the most M1817s with about 13000 produced. These were not originally fitted for a bayonet. During the conversion, the muzzle was turned down to accommodate either the M1855 socket bayonet or a lug was also added for the M1855 saber bayonet. I wonder if the turn down went bad so they just chopped the barrel to salvage the rifle. The muzzle could have also been damaged. The P's are assembly marks from the initial build. This was prior to interchangeable parts so each rifle was hand fitted. The Roman Numerals are from the conversion, to keep the parts for the same rifle together. |
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