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Posted: 7/25/2009 10:10:56 AM EDT
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Ok, here it is, finally. Such as it is.
I pulled a bunch of product off the shelves, stuffed them with wadded newspaper and took pictures. I have pics of the HAWG v HAWG 500 and MULE v MULE 500, but honestly there is not enough difference between them to really see in pictures. I did not have a "standard" BFM to compare to the BFM 500, but the basic difference is the addition of the upper pockets on the sides, and the "swap" of the two back pockets...the larger outer pocket was at the top, with a smaller rectangular pocket below that. Basically, take the "standard" Motherlode, and add a rectangular pocket below that, and you should have an idea. Weights below are empty, no water, and the volume (cubic inches) is cargo only. Specs: BFM: 21 in x 13 in x 10 in / 2551 c.i. cargo / 5.88 lbs empty (no water) BFM 500: 21.5 x 13.5 x 14.5in / 3142 c.i. cargo / 4.6 lbs empty (no water) Motherlode: 19 in x 13 in x 8 in / 2143 c.i. / 4.88 lbs Motherlode 500: 20 in x 14.5 in x 13.5 in / 2592 cu in / 4.47 lbs Trizip: 20 x 13 x 11.5 in / 1917 c.i. / 4.89 lbs (this is info on the tag...marketing materials say it's 2,318 c.i.) HAWG: 1099 c.i. / (I don't have any other specs on it...pulled this from the website and I have none in stock so can't check tags) HAWG 500: 20 in x 10.5 in x 12 in / 1291 cu in / 2.64 lbs MULE : 18.5 x 10 x 5 / 540 c.i. / 2.27 lbs MULE 500: 18 in x 10 in x 6 in / 492 cu in / 2.10 lbs BFM 500 v Motherlode 500 They are that much different in size, physically, unlike the impression this picture gives. Remember that the BFM 500 has pockets on the sides, so it wasn't as close to the wall as the Motherlode 500. Since it was closer to the camera, the BFM-500 looks much larger than the ML-500. While it is a bit bigger, it's not as dramatic as the image suggests. 
Motherlode 500 v Motherlode 
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I have come to the conclusion, buttressed by most others, that CB has the best bladders, and the widest range of options for most users.
For example, their HydroLink system allows me to use my CB as a source for drinking while wearing most gas masks, and, more usefully, there is a water filter attachment that allows the water filter to fill the bladder via the drinking hose. That's handy, and poses far less risk of introducing contaminated water into the bladder. Disclaimer; No financial interest. |
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Disclaimer; No financial interest.  
Let me explain. When I post a recommendation about a company, I'm aware of my position here as Sr.Staff. Now, some folks might not care one way or the other, but I've never accepted a cent or a piece of gear on account of my position here. I've had Members here offer me stuff for postage only, and I've refused their kind offer, and paid them market price plus postage. So, if I post a recommendation, based on my personal, hands-on, bought-for-my-own-use item, I think you all ought to know that NOBODY ever pays for my opinion. Period. That's what the "Disclaimer" is all about. Tell you what; Mebbe you should ask somebody touting a bit of gear if they have any connection to the vendor/producer. I can say this for sure: This site is rampant with folks that get sweetheart deals on gear and then, somehow, post glowing reviews of same. Mebbe you all should ask these guys what their connection is to the mfr/vendor. If they don't post a disclaimer, asI I did, then maybe they stand to make some money out of their reviews. Maybe not, but asking them up-fromt might be interesting. . |
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Disclaimer; No financial interest.
Let me explain. When I post a recommendation about a company, I'm aware of my position here as Sr.Staff. Now, some folks might not care one way or the other, but I've never accepted a cent or a piece of gear on account of my position here. I've had Members here offer me stuff for postage only, and I've refused their kind offer, and paid them market price plus postage. So, if I post a recommendation, based on my personal, hands-on, bought-for-my-own-use item, I think you all ought to know that NOBODY ever pays for my opinion. Period. That's what the "Disclaimer" is all about. Tell you what; Mebbe you should ask somebody touting a bit of gear if they have any connection to the vendor/producer. I can say this for sure: This site is rampant with folks that get sweetheart deals on gear and then, somehow, post glowing reviews of same. Mebbe you all should ask these guys what their connection is to the mfr/vendor. If they don't post a disclaimer, asI I did, then maybe they stand to make some money out of their reviews. Maybe not, but asking them up-fromt might be interesting. . oh i get it. i just thought that it was amusing. |
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I thought it was pretty apparent that I sell this stuff because of
a) my use of the phrase "I pulled a bunch of product off the shelves, stuffed them with wadded newspaper and took pictures" in my first post b) many/most folks who use this particular forum know I run an online gear dealership. It's not a secret, and never has been. However, since c) I am not a paid advertiser d) I don't go around saying "Hey, I sell this stuff, buy it from me", ever, posting a disclaimer would seem e) counterproductive to my desire not to shit all over those who DO pay to be an advertiser here. People in another thread had been wanting comparison pictures of different Camelbaks, especially the Trizip. I don't know of anyone who could do this AND not be a dealer of some sort. I suppose being a dealer means I get a "sweetheart deal" on the gear, but I pay for it all out of my own pocket, just like you. Additionally, my comparison doesn't purport to be anything "touting" how good or bad Camelbak is compared to anything else. It's comparing Camelbak X with Camelbak Y. So, fine. If you want a disclaimer, here it is: I sell Camelbak products. Take my comparison pictures for what they were intended to be, comparison pictures. Sorry I even bothered. |
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I thought it was pretty apparent that I sell this stuff because of a) my use of the phrase "I pulled a bunch of product off the shelves, stuffed them with wadded newspaper and took pictures" in my first post b) many/most folks who use this particular forum know I run an online gear dealership. It's not a secret, and never has been. However, since c) I am not a paid advertiser d) I don't go around saying "Hey, I sell this stuff, buy it from me", ever, posting a disclaimer would seem e) counterproductive to my desire not to shit all over those who DO pay to be an advertiser here. People in another thread had been wanting comparison pictures of different Camelbaks, especially the Trizip. I don't know of anyone who could do this AND not be a dealer of some sort. I suppose being a dealer means I get a "sweetheart deal" on the gear, but I pay for it all out of my own pocket, just like you. Additionally, my comparison doesn't purport to be anything "touting" how good or bad Camelbak is compared to anything else. It's comparing Camelbak X with Camelbak Y. So, fine. If you want a disclaimer, here it is: I sell Camelbak products. Take my comparison pictures for what they were intended to be, comparison pictures. Sorry I even bothered. i don't think it was you tim... |
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I thought it was pretty apparent that I sell this stuff because of a) my use of the phrase "I pulled a bunch of product off the shelves, stuffed them with wadded newspaper and took pictures" in my first post b) many/most folks who use this particular forum know I run an online gear dealership. It's not a secret, and never has been. However, since c) I am not a paid advertiser d) I don't go around saying "Hey, I sell this stuff, buy it from me", ever, posting a disclaimer would seem e) counterproductive to my desire not to shit all over those who DO pay to be an advertiser here. People in another thread had been wanting comparison pictures of different Camelbaks, especially the Trizip. I don't know of anyone who could do this AND not be a dealer of some sort. I suppose being a dealer means I get a "sweetheart deal" on the gear, but I pay for it all out of my own pocket, just like you. Additionally, my comparison doesn't purport to be anything "touting" how good or bad Camelbak is compared to anything else. It's comparing Camelbak X with Camelbak Y. So, fine. If you want a disclaimer, here it is: I sell Camelbak products. Take my comparison pictures for what they were intended to be, comparison pictures. Sorry I even bothered. Tim, I personally really appreciate the comparison shots. I know that it takes time to set everything up, take the photos, host them and then write the post with the detailed specs. If you read the post it is pretty obvious that you aren't trying to sell these bags to us, just sharing information. It seems to me that the "financial disclaimer" has been a hot topic of late and everyone seems pretty keyed on it. Just roll with it bud, I for one respect the fact that you spent your own time to share the information without any "sales push". Thanks for the post. Skiddy |
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I thought it was pretty apparent that I sell this stuff because of a) my use of the phrase "I pulled a bunch of product off the shelves, stuffed them with wadded newspaper and took pictures" in my first post b) many/most folks who use this particular forum know I run an online gear dealership. It's not a secret, and never has been. However, since c) I am not a paid advertiser d) I don't go around saying "Hey, I sell this stuff, buy it from me", ever, posting a disclaimer would seem e) counterproductive to my desire not to shit all over those who DO pay to be an advertiser here. People in another thread had been wanting comparison pictures of different Camelbaks, especially the Trizip. I don't know of anyone who could do this AND not be a dealer of some sort. I suppose being a dealer means I get a "sweetheart deal" on the gear, but I pay for it all out of my own pocket, just like you. Additionally, my comparison doesn't purport to be anything "touting" how good or bad Camelbak is compared to anything else. It's comparing Camelbak X with Camelbak Y. So, fine. If you want a disclaimer, here it is: I sell Camelbak products. Take my comparison pictures for what they were intended to be, comparison pictures. Sorry I even bothered. Tim, I personally really appreciate the comparison shots. I know that it takes time to set everything up, take the photos, host them and then write the post with the detailed specs. If you read the post it is pretty obvious that you aren't trying to sell these bags to us, just sharing information. It seems to me that the "financial disclaimer" has been a hot topic of late and everyone seems pretty keyed on it. Just roll with it bud, I for one respect the fact that you spent your own time to share the information without any "sales push". Thanks for the post. Skiddy +1. made me revisit the tri-zip thread. eta: the tactical industry should take a bit better look at civilian packs. and this is coming from my lshd couch, and i'm sure i'll get blasted for it. I'd love to see a military version of my Osprey Exos 58. it seems to be the same size as the trizip, but is rated at 3500ci. apparently from what i'm reading the tri-zip is around 2800. even the erblestock stuff maxes out at around 3000. kirafu has some good stuff, but is damned expensive. IMO: my dream 3 day pack is a pack that weighs in around 4-5lbs, covered in pals channels, external AirSpeed Suspension, top loader, and of course multicam; and in the sub-$300 range. I looked through the 3 day pack resource and other threads, and i see my fellow civilians craming TONS of clothing into these packs, but it's not leaving any room for ammo, shelters, sleep systems, cook kits, etc. carrying a 7-10 diameter sleep mat (once rolled) is completely unacceptable. yeah it's quick, but i can deploy a big agnes air core (self inflating) matress just as quickly as it takes you to unroll that beast and get it flat. |
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I thought it was pretty apparent that I sell this stuff because of a) my use of the phrase "I pulled a bunch of product off the shelves, stuffed them with wadded newspaper and took pictures" in my first post b) many/most folks who use this particular forum know I run an online gear dealership. It's not a secret, and never has been. However, since c) I am not a paid advertiser d) I don't go around saying "Hey, I sell this stuff, buy it from me", ever, posting a disclaimer would seem e) counterproductive to my desire not to shit all over those who DO pay to be an advertiser here. People in another thread had been wanting comparison pictures of different Camelbaks, especially the Trizip. I don't know of anyone who could do this AND not be a dealer of some sort. I suppose being a dealer means I get a "sweetheart deal" on the gear, but I pay for it all out of my own pocket, just like you. Additionally, my comparison doesn't purport to be anything "touting" how good or bad Camelbak is compared to anything else. It's comparing Camelbak X with Camelbak Y. So, fine. If you want a disclaimer, here it is: I sell Camelbak products. Take my comparison pictures for what they were intended to be, comparison pictures. Sorry I even bothered. At the time of my original posting, I was entirely unaware that you sold the CB stuff, so my subsequent remarks were not directed at you, specifically. If my remarks offended, even inadvertantly, I apologize. Frankly, your post was quite informative, and I recognize the time and effort that went into making it. The disclaimer I made in my post, and which I subsequently explained, is something that I have been doing for a long time, and was not, in any way, a shot at you, personally. I have no objection to folks doing a little selling of stuff here and there. OTOH, at some point (and that point is tough to pin down) folks vending stuff begins to step on the Dealers and Industry Partners who support the Site by paying for that privelege. This Site has always been friendly to the little guy just starting out, but that policy has to be balanced against the legitimate inteests of paying Site supporters as well. One recurring problem is that some folks do not reveal themselves as dealers, as having gotten a piece of gear for cheap/free, and/or a personal relationship with a gear Mfr/Vendor. They then write a very nice review of same, while not informing the reader fully about who they are, how they got the gear, and about any relevant conflicts of interest that might bias their review. Personally, I object to such practices, and I never want to be confused with such people. Hence my disclaimer, which I post from time-to time, as the situation warrants. I can't make anyone else issue disclaimers, or fully reveal any conflicts of interest they might have. It would be nice (and forthright of them) if they did so, but they aren't compelled to do so. That said, it is up to every reader to consider whether or not the writer of a particular review does, or does not, have a hidden agenda. For example, if someone writes a review, and begins by saying that "My brother-in-law gave me this piece of gear for free, so I could write a review of it and post it here", is at least being honest about that aspect of things, and I can accept that. If the subsequent review is a good one, and a fair one, then I might even buy the thing. OTOH, if a reviewer does NOT reveal such conflicts of interest, and such become known later on, then he's poison to me, and I'll ignore his reviews, and the products he's shilling for. Your original post wasn't a problem, because all you were doing is providing factual, objective information. Nobody can object to that; it's a big part of what this entire Site is for. I will add the following quote from another thread in this forum: "Thanks for understanding. I don't think you have to stop posting about [your friend's Company's] products, but I would ask that you not use any pix that you, yourself had not taken, and that you refrain from any sort of links to the Company. Mention their name, if you like, but no pix you, personally didn't take, no watermarked pix, and no links [to your Friend's company], OK? The above is just an interim request. When some reasonable guidelines are hammered out, we'll post them for everyone to see. My intent, at present, is for such guidelines to hold tor the entire site, not just this forum, so don't feel picked-on." Anyway, Tim, I hope all this clears up things a bit, and I want you to know that I was not trying to single you out as having done anything out of line in your original post. |
and yeah matching pals would be better yet
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RAF,
Thanks for the explanation and apology...gladly accepted. I completely understand the 'stepping on toes' of paying industry members and dealer, which is why I take great pains NOT to be overt or blatant about this stuff unless someone asks, or someone makes references to me. Having been a paying advertiser here, and on other boards, I would never begrudge someone doing what I am currently doing, but to actively come here to promote their store and items, yeah, I would. So I always try to remember that. BB68 The webbing was likely left over from the time they were doing everything in 3-Color Desert Camo (still a few things in that, but not many at all). So instead of tossing it and losing money, they use it with MultiCam. Sucks, IMO, especially since many companies are now using the colored webbing (ACU and MC) on their items. Camelbak is doing this on a couple of ACU packs, but that's because it came online around the time of Foliage Green, so they didn't get too deep into the FG webbing before the other became available. Since both FG and ACU sell well, there wasn't much/as much of a chance of "spoilage" as with the tan/pink-tan webbing they use on MC currently. Hopefully they run out of that soon. :) |
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I have to look at that Trizip a different way now. I wanted to consider it a replacement for my daily/BOB but it holds slightly less so cost/benefit doesn't fall in my favor. I do agree that CB has the best selection for everyone out there when it comes to products, hell they are the original. I might consider the Trizip as a dedicated trunk BOB for my truck though, round enough and big enough to fit in my storage box with ease.
Thanks for the work in putting this comparison together |
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Tim, What is all this "500" stuff? Is it just a different line? What is the difference? Made from 500D Cordura vs. 1000D of the original military line. Lighter weight, more flexible, allows for them to do some things that would be difficult with 1000D, such as the small fleece-lined pockets. SOTech is using 500D for a lot of their pouches, and they've found that the strength and abrasion resistance is about 75-80% as good as 1000D for about a 30% weight decrease. As you can see in the specs listed above, the sizes tend to be a bit bigger for the same amount of weight. |
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Tim, What is all this "500" stuff? Is it just a different line? What is the difference? Made from 500D Cordura vs. 1000D of the original military line. Lighter weight, more flexible, allows for them to do some things that would be difficult with 1000D, such as the small fleece-lined pockets. SOTech is using 500D for a lot of their pouches, and they've found that the strength and abrasion resistance is about 75-80% as good as 1000D for about a 30% weight decrease. As you can see in the specs listed above, the sizes tend to be a bit bigger for the same amount of weight. I was starting to suspect that might be it. I really like the look and idea of the tri-zip, but I already have too many backpacks. |
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I have to look at that Trizip a different way now. I wanted to consider it a replacement for my daily/BOB but it holds slightly less so cost/benefit doesn't fall in my favor. I might consider the Trizip as a dedicated trunk BOB for my truck though, round enough and big enough to fit in my storage box with ease. while true, where the tri-zip 'shines' is that it's torso adjustable-you can custom fit it to you. those other packs just hang off your shoulders. YMMV oh and you can add pouches to it to hold more if needed. get both 
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resurrected thread...
Indeed the tr-zip is nice that it has great adjust-ability of the torso but if it was just a bit bigger, I sold mine in hopes the TAD FAST Pack would be the end all...it's not, I miss my tri-zip but need more room...where is the perfect pack...I will in all likely hood be going back to the Camelbak line..... Can't beat the features and construction.. |
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Is it just me, but is anyone else very skeptical about zippers on field gear?
I have had all types and Mfrs fail at one time or another, and depending on the useage, the zipper's failure ranges from inconveniance to near disastrous in its' effects. Zippers have their place in non-critical areas, but I think they are utilized too often as a cost-cutting/design simplification measure. I don't care for them, and I think their extensive use a drawback. |
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