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ALICE Gear Setups (Page 4 of 23)
I have only ever used the Y type suspenders and have never found them to be uncomfortable, including a 20 road march in AIT, but I was only 19 years old then. I may have to get a set of the H suspenders to try. |
), buttpack, and canteens should be here later this week. I've already got my M16 mag pouches...way more than I need....anyone need some???
Being an asshole has a reward all its own
My ignorance amuses me greatly
Remember kids, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people who ask questions.
My ignorance amuses me greatly
Remember kids, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people who ask questions.
easy mods I've made to my ALICE pack  (7x) 1'' FASTEX Buckles (2x) 1'' Split Bar Ladderloc (3x) Cordloc I got the buckles and ladderloc from SupplyCaptain.com, while 2 of the 3 cordloc came from a old ACU trousers. I first put the 3 buckles on the outer pockets a 2 on the straps that keep the top flap in place...I've also put ladderlocs on those straps but I've seen people using web dominators. Then I've put 2 cordlocs on the 2 smaller outer pockets. Finally I've put a cordlock on the main compartment and a buckles on the inner radio pocket.    I've put a buckle also on the cardo tie down starp   Now I only need a Super Belt ans Straps from TT  |
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One point of concern is this: How do you carry a PACK with WAIST STRAP while you're also carrying your LBE/LBV setup? You've got POUCHES, CANTEENS, and a HOLSTER on that LBE belt/Y-harness. I've used them quite a bit, and their downside is carrying a pack with a waist belt to help distribute the load. Y-suspenders worked just fine for me, but I just hated that I couldn't carry a sizable pack unless I lowered the LBE straps, padded the ALICE belt, and THEN had the pack's waist belt on my hips. STILL, a padded waist strap for a decent pack will restrict one's ability to access mags, or your side-arm when you've got your pack on... As such, I moved to a MOLLE Chest setup, and I keep 100% of my waist COMPLETELY free of pouches. I can use my pack, and keep my 1911 on a drop-leg holster. I have a drop-leg panel on the left side for carrying some additional pouches that normally would be on my waist belt, and a mag dump pouch lowered off the belt as well. This keeps the waist clear for a good pack, the chest rig has most mags and heavy items arranged nicely, and the frontal weight of the chest rig nicely balances the weight of the pack so you're not having to lean forward to shift your center of gravity/balance. You can still turn, and move more fluidly, and not feel like a hunch back. The ALICE setup works nice if you're ONLY using a modified LBE for a fighting rig, but with a pack - there's no way I'll go back to the ALICE setup. Maybe for a backup SHTF rig (mostly for family members to use), then sure, I'll build a few on the cheap. I've got one in progress right now for family to use... K1rodeoboater, you're gonna DEFINITELY want to modify the straps on your Y-harness to make it more stable & comfortable. |
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"An unloaded gun is about as helpful as a Wellstone supporter...Utterly useless in real life situations."-100w_Warlock
"An unloaded gun is about as helpful as a Wellstone supporter...Utterly useless in real life situations."-100w_Warlock
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I wore traditional LBE and an ALICE for years. It is doable if your stuff is adjusted correctly. The Alice gear needs to be a bit lower than some of y'all might imagine, wasn't much of a problem for me because of my torso length. Shorter guys had issues. Now, to be truthful, the waste belt on the the ruck was frequently ignored. I would typically remove the belt from the pad and tape the "wings" back. This wasn't because the strap was unusable but because we had to be able to shuck the pack quickly. If you are wearing a pack longer than an ALICE it would be imposible. Everything has its issues... subloads as you mention have no place in any situation where you might want to wear a pack. |
Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state.
-Thomas Jefferson
-Thomas Jefferson
thanks for the heads up on that...Any examples or ideas? I'm half thinking about trying to make my own H harness this summer. The rig is just for shits and giggles anyways, might use it if I take that carbine class this summer...if I can afford it  btw shoot me an IM if you need any mag pouches...I've got more than I need and I'd rather see them go to a good home than ebay |
Damn dude! Bringing back memories. Ramen noodles and a broken up pork patty in a canteen cup. That's good eatin. |
Semper Fi
Mark
Mark
Since we seem to talking about ALICE packs here, I can tell you that the super straps and belt from tactical tailor are the shiznit for an ALICE pack upgrade. The comfort level is amazing! Even with the pack fully loaded it seems to float on your back with no hot spots. Best 60 bucks I've spent on my gear in a long time. |
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Well I just got my ALICE gear...hopefully I can get pics up later today or tonight. You guys are a bit bigger than me for sure....I barely was just able to fit my buttpack, 2 canteens, and 2 M16 mag pouches with just tiny bit of room left....damn me an my 32" waist. I might be able to squeeze in another 2 mag pouches, I need to cut off the grenade pockets on the side anyways. The belt is supposed to be above your hips, much like a pack correct? Maybe I have it a bit to high. Though I can tell why people dislike the Y suspenders....I didn't really even have a load on mine and I could already tell they're uncomfortable. |
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Actually, I ran my load below my hips, and used the USGI Padding on the belt. DEFINITELY cut off the frag pouches (unless you have some real frags for them, but I don't)... They take up too much space. The sustpenders will need to be adjusted so the corner of the 'Y' isn't up agains the back of your neck. It'll make you sore if it is over time. The strap adjustment is key here... I suggest replacing the tightening metal clips with a newer fastening / adjusting clip of some kind. The USGI ones suck, and you can tell it was from the lowest bidder.  The other option is to adjust them the way you want, roll up the excess, and secure it with OD green duct tape. Spray paint to blend color, and it should be okay. Buttpacks are nice, but if you have to enter or exit a vehicle at any point, they become a MAJOR hindrance. So, I removed my buttpack (when I still ran ALICE gear), and just kept the backside of the belt mostly unencumbered with junk. I ran a hydration pouch setup hooked to the D-rings/hooks on the ALICE setup, and that allowed me to use more mag pouches on the belt, dump pouch, and keep the stuff on your backside more compact. I don't have my original modded alice setup anymore, and I don't think I even had much for pics of it either. It was DEFINITELY an "on the cheap" setup I made to (similarly) run in a Carbine course when I was in college. It worked GREAT except for when I needed to use a pack of any type. Chest rigs are now the way to go for me (well plate carrier anyway). -inuhbad |
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"An unloaded gun is about as helpful as a Wellstone supporter...Utterly useless in real life situations."-100w_Warlock
"An unloaded gun is about as helpful as a Wellstone supporter...Utterly useless in real life situations."-100w_Warlock
Here's a pic of my modified LBE. This is a secondary rig for me now. I'm tall enough where the Y susenders work well for me. Two mag pouches with the grenade carriers removed Two M56 (older style) pouches for ancillary supplies BOK, survival signaling first aid etc Two compass pouches which hold a pressure dressing each Two canteens one with cup and stove... the canteens are dummy corded and I have water P tabs in the pouches the ALICE clips are all removed and replaced with heavy duty zip ties |
Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state.
-Thomas Jefferson
-Thomas Jefferson
Thanks for the tips and the link to your site on your pic, looks like a cool site 
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Being an asshole has a reward all its own
My ignorance amuses me greatly
Remember kids, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people who ask questions.
My ignorance amuses me greatly
Remember kids, there are no stupid questions, just stupid people who ask questions.
No problem, and take a look around, it's brand new and I'd like input. |
Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state.
-Thomas Jefferson
-Thomas Jefferson
pretty good sight...FWIW the color scheme with the background is kinda hard on my eyes. Tiger stripe is cool but it's hard to read the text even in the green body with it around. It distracts me from the text. I agree with most of the things you have on there, I especially like how you say that there are a lot of other things that must be done in addition to X Y and Z. I also especially liked what you said about quality range time is judged by exactly that quality and not quantity. |
Well I just got a LBV on ebay for $15 shipped......guess I will get to try both now  .with my 32in waist I can't really fit as much onto my pistol belt as some of you guys have  . The damn buttpack is nearly as wide as my back, add in the canteens and it's on the edge of my hips.
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A few of small, but possibly important points. It is important to buy zip-ties that are certified for outdoor use and exposure to sunlight. Look around at a big hardware store, and you will find them in black. They're pretty strong, as they have metal locking tabs, so size is not an issue with the good ones. Smaller is better, but watch out how the locking tab sits-- don't want it to dig into your bod is the most important thing. Position it as you will, just so it doesn't poke you. Likewise, cut off excess strap flush with the locking tab. That nylon can, and will cut you (or cut/poke a hole in your equipment) if you leave a sharp and exposed edge. Cut it with scissors/dykes and trim it flush with a sharp razor blade. Padding on the pistol belt makes things easier to carry, and also provides a little floatation if you go in the drink. Worth spending on all out of proportion to its cost. Improved padding/improved waistbelt on any ALICE pack is worth its weight in gold, and improved shoulder straps likewise. H-harnesses are better than Y-harnesses. Canvas absorbs water and gets pretty heavy, the OD color fades, and it rots eventually. Go good quality nylon, the type that has UV inhibitors on the material and coloring. Don't spray your stuff with black paint. Find some medium dark grey paint and use that. Battleship grey is way too light. Black bad, grey good; confusion the goal. Squiggly lines more or less at right angles or 45 deg to object being camoed. Less is more. |
"The M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." General George S. Patton Jr.,US Army
The main thing about wearing the alice-style LBE and a pack is not too hard in principle; it is the execution that requires some experimentation.two-fold. Clear the back of the alice LBE so that the kidney pad of the pack can ride comfortably. Depending on your torso length and overall stature, that can mean having the pistol belt either ride above the kidney belt or below. Directly underneath is Not Good. There are companies (google FMCO) that offer some interesting web gear that they will configure to the end-user's requirements. Their prices are quite reasonable, all things considered. A lot of alice users delete the alice clips and even the hooks for other attachment devices, such as 550 cord (parachute line) and the MALICE clip. Some use wire-ties, but see my post above on these. Point is alice gear is dirt cheap and works for both AR users and M1A/Fal users, as well as other people. There are plenty of aftermarket upgrades to the shoulder straps of the pack, as well as the kidney belt. There are pads for the pistol belt. All of these things, plus the items mentioned above, can make BIG contributions to the alice system. Good news is that the upgrades can be done gradually. Bad news is that they cost extra money, although that factor has to be weighed against the upgrades' utility, which is surprisingly great. Plenty of alice stuff around, still, and the price is all right, as of now. Eventually even alice stuff will dry up. Some rare bits and pieces are already fetching collector's prices. An alice rig, if it is intelligently thought-out, and with some aftermarket upgrades, is every bit as useful and durable as even the most modern gear, plus a lot less expensive. Besides, a lot of folks will say that vests, which are the current rage, can be very hot in the summer. FWIW, I have been a collector of US field gear for many years, and have even used some in the field. I have some small expertise in the subject. There can be no doubt that the American soldier has never been so well-equipped as he has been beginning with the alice-era. I have tons of modern molle stuff, but a well-done alice rig is nothing to be sneezed-at, either. Besides, it is not so much the equipment as the heart and skill of the person wearing it. That is the REAL point. |
"The M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." General George S. Patton Jr.,US Army
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here is my "alice" mix and match rig lol. anyway its a mesh enhanced LBV. the 2nd pic show s a BHI lrrp style pack attached(empty as its not being used right now) mostly use that for when its cold to carry fluffy/bulky junk like fleece,small bags or etxra stay warm fluff.  with lrrp  Im water heavy as you can see. 1 reason is balance out the load, 2nd well its fla and hotter than shit down here. my other rig is better suited for down here bing all mesh FLC style vest without the heavy alice,, other is chest rig..again great for the heat, and lighter,faster etc. BUT sucks ass if you gotta stay outside over night! alice is just heavy as hell, but from what ive found if your doing some run and gun junk its not needed..if your doing outdoor style crap, where you need extra crap, alice works, i havent found any rig that i can fit the same amount of crap in and be comfy except- this one-   izzy r1 vest, but hotter than fuck in the heat due to its wrap around vest style... 
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you cant eat nylon poser!
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I like all the new plastic quick-clips hardware on the pics of the large alice pack, in place of the metal hardware. I was looking at my alice pack earlier today and noticed that the metal hardware is sewn into the pack by the nylon straps. I'm assuming that you ripped the stitches to remove the old hardware and install the new plastic hardware, then re-stitched the nylon webbing. I also found my old "Y" web suspenders and web belt. I started with trying to get rid of the rust on the metal hardware. Not much luck yet. Then I got rid of the metal clips on the 4 ends of the suspenders and used paracord to fasten the front 2 straps to the belt. I attatched my canvas but-pack with paracord (got rid of metal clips) to the belt, then again used paracord to tie the but-pack (2 grommets on top of but-pack) to the 2 rear straps of the suspenders. I like it already, seems quieter and like it flows more naturally (know what I mean? Seems more "organic"). Now I need to take a trip to the surplus store and pick up some magazine pouches, maybe something for a dump pouch. Oh yeah, I also found my M9 bayonet whith the web-belt attatchment clip, so I put that on my belt. My suspenders and belt are black, the but-pack is green canvas. The M9 is the 1st gen and has the green plastic handle and sheath. This is all kinda' fun to start making my web-rig. I'd rather spend money on ammo than brand-new web-gear. |
Right now, and for the most part, the collectibles have moved into the M1967 MLCE (Modernized Load Carying Equipment) era, which pre-dates the alice period and is mostly nylon adaptations of M-1956 canvas gear. Some M-1956 stuff is also quite rare, such as the canvas 20-rd AR mag pouches and some other stuff, particularly items in excellent condition. It is no trick to find a ratty item, but something else to find an unused and rare item. Keep in mind I'm talking collector-grade, which is to say more-or-less NOS condition. The alice items that are currently sought-after are, for the most part, NOS items, and seldom seen bits and pieces. To quote you item-by item is impractical, sorry. Off-hand, some variants of intrenching tool carriers, ammo pouches, and buttpacks come to mind, but there are other less-common items. Most alice items were manufactured in such numbers as to be available for a good while yet, especially as gear-whores are all over the newer molle items. As a practical matter, the person wanting to use alice items has almost everything to choose from, with a few exceptions that are of interest only to collectors, and of no great utility to the practical user. |
"The M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." General George S. Patton Jr.,US Army
Here's my belt kit: I like it a lot. I took the back half of the suspenders from an LBV 88 (you can also see this with some of the characters such as Dan Busch and Randy Shughart in the movie Black Hawk Down). These are far superior to the Y-Harness I had. I didn't care for the front "vest" portion of the LBV 88 because this is for M14 magazines. I'll be changing things around a little bit once I get my Camelbak. I actually like the ALICE clips so I have them on all of the magazine pouches. I have all the pouches zip tied to the belt just in case though. |
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Perhaps it would be beneficial if someone were to post a few good 'How To Mod __Insert ITEM Here__ ALICE Gear' threads... There are some good tricks to modifying ALICE gear for pretty cheap. Such as properly adjusting your H/Y Suspenders, Rolling up the excess, taping them off and binding them down good. Or the countless 'alternative' attachment methods? Or fitting a pack OVER the LBE/LBV straps and pistol belt? The pack w/ waistband issue is the primary reason why I decided to switch over from ALICE to a chest rig... Ergonomics were far superior when wearing a pack and helps move your center of gravity (with a pack on) forward to 're-center' it. You can better turn while moving and more comfortably carry your loads. However, the downfall is you can't have much of anything on your waist belt, and you will likely need drop-leg loadouts. to carry some lightweight items. Edited to add: One of the other reasons why I switched away from ALICE was because, after paying for materials for 'Upgrades' (buckles, straps, etc.), the ALICE gear was costing just about as much as some brand new chest rigs or newer vest systems... I like the options ALICE provides for backup/secondary rigs though! |
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"An unloaded gun is about as helpful as a Wellstone supporter...Utterly useless in real life situations."-100w_Warlock
"An unloaded gun is about as helpful as a Wellstone supporter...Utterly useless in real life situations."-100w_Warlock
There are a lot of little tricks to Alice gear, I could write you a book on them. I have been using the stuff since the 80's and swear by it. The stuff can be set up in a million different combinations it all depends on your body type and what makes you comfortable as far as load carrying goes. I personally like to keep my pistol belt loose. I don't wear my M16 ammo pouches up front like most people do but off to the sides. That way when I go to ground I don't land on my ammo and hurt myself. I also (since the invention of the camelbak) don't use canteens anymore. I use a camelbak hooked into the rear of my suspenders. The only thing I have on the back of my belt is my butt pack. And its one of the new design thats more like a fanny pack with its own strap and all. So its pretty versatile. It carries rations, E&E stuff and other miscellaneous gear. Its always a work in progress. Has been for years. Something new comes out I try it. If I like it, it stays, if not, it goes. As far as adjusting the harness, again its a personal choice. I like mine low on my hips. I found that on a long hike its nice to open that web belt up and let the web belt hang from your shoulders. When you make any adjustments in the straps always roll up the extra web material and tape it with either electrical or duct tape. Then tape all of the metal hooks so they don't rattle. After you tape everything down load your belt, put it on and jump up and down. If it makes noise, figure out where the noise is coming from and fix it. You can't make any noise when you're behind enemy lines running from the bad guys. Another good idea is to take all the metal hooks off and replace them with 550 cord to hook your suspenders to your web belt. You can also use zip ties to replace the alice clips on your pouches. Saves weight and makes no noise. When you put your magazines in the pouches, put duct tape on the bottom of each mag and a piece of 55 cord inserted in the tape (to make getting the magazine out of the pouch easier) and to reduce the noise of the magazines from rattling against each other. Another thing to save space on your belt (if you have a small waist) is to cut off the grenade loops on the magazine pouches. That way you can out them closer together on your belt. With the advent of GPS most people don't use maps and compases anymore but being from the old school I still do. I use a military lensatic compass with tritium inserts. Other compasses use a luminous paint that doesn't really glow in the dark like the tritium. Maps are easy to get but make sure you get the ones that show the terrain features. They're more detailed and show water sources as well as hills and valleys, etc. Don't get me wrong I want to get a GPS one day. I like them. I used one of the first ones in Desert Storm and it was really great. But no matter which one you use make sure you use a "dummy cord". (Tie a piece of 550 cord to it and the other end to your web gear, it'll keep you from loosing it.) I dummy cord anything that I think I might lose easily. Hell you use a sling on your rifle don't you? There are other threads that talk about what to put in your ruck (BOB) or whatever you want to call it. But the same goes for your ruck that goes for your web gear. tie and tape everything down. then put it on and jump up and down. If it moves or makes noise figure out what it is thats making the noise and fix it. Again you don't want to be making any noise when you're trying to E&E (escape and evade) behind enemy lines. Noise discipline is extremely important in the woods. Its too easy to make noise and be heard in a quiet wooded environment. Make sure there is nothing to snag on a branch and make noise as you walk by a tree. At night light discipline is the name of the game. white light and camp fires are out of the question. Look for a flash light with either a red or blue lens. Red is best for reading maps since you can't see water sources with a blue lens. But with a red lens its harder to take care of someone who is bleeding, can't see the blood with a red lens. Of course if its possible don't use a light if you don't have to. There are methods of seeing in the dark without the use of lights. For instance, don't look directly at an object to see it use your peripheral vision. It works best for seeing movement at night. Of course if you have the money, a good set of night vision goggles can't be beat. Even a set of PVS-5's (Generation 2 technology) or PVS-7's (even better) are great. I don't know much about the Russian made stuff, but have heard that some is good and some is junk. Anyway, hope this has helped somewhat. The old Ranger Handbook from the 80's still has some good info even though its 20+ years old. Good luck with your web gear. Go out and hike around with it and enjoy it. Make good use of it. It will last you for years to come and serve you well. |
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Originally Posted By Andrewsky: I picked up an interesting vest. It is GI, and appears to be a transitional piece of gear. The body of the vest has MOLLE/PALS webbing, but in all other respects it is an LBV 88 vest. Tag says it is a medic's vest, and it's covered with zippered medic pouches. Only vest of this type I've ever seen. Woodland, of course.Here's my belt kit: http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb30/Andrewsky89/11002.jpg I like it a lot. I took the back half of the suspenders from an LBV 88 (you can also see this with some of the characters such as Dan Busch and Randy Shughart in the movie Black Hawk Down). These are far superior to the Y-Harness I had. I didn't care for the front "vest" portion of the LBV 88 because this is for M14 magazines. I'll be changing things around a little bit once I get my Camelbak. I actually like the ALICE clips so I have them on all of the magazine pouches. I have all the pouches zip tied to the belt just in case though. That being the case, I can use my enhanced LBV 88 for 5.56 mags, and attach 7.62 mag carriers to the Medic's vest. |
"The M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." General George S. Patton Jr.,US Army
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Originally Posted By raf: Originally Posted By Andrewsky: I picked up an interesting vest. It is GI, and appears to be a transitional piece of gear. The body of the vest has MOLLE/PALS webbing, but in all other respects it is an LBV 88 vest. Tag says it is a medic's vest, and it's covered with zippered medic pouches. Only vest of this type I've ever seen. Woodland, of course.Here's my belt kit: http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb30/Andrewsky89/11002.jpg I like it a lot. I took the back half of the suspenders from an LBV 88 (you can also see this with some of the characters such as Dan Busch and Randy Shughart in the movie Black Hawk Down). These are far superior to the Y-Harness I had. I didn't care for the front "vest" portion of the LBV 88 because this is for M14 magazines. I'll be changing things around a little bit once I get my Camelbak. I actually like the ALICE clips so I have them on all of the magazine pouches. I have all the pouches zip tied to the belt just in case though. That being the case, I can use my enhanced LBV 88 for 5.56 mags, and attach 7.62 mag carriers to the Medic's vest. that is the medic vest. is is almost like the ELCS spears lbv. ceptthe front panels are straight and not angled like the elcs spears set up. I'd like toget one so i could keep my lbv set up but go to molle for some modulairty with out going to a full blown chest rig( like the lbv set up) |
you cant eat nylon poser!
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Originally Posted By protus:
Originally Posted By raf:
Originally Posted By Andrewsky:
I picked up an interesting vest. It is GI, and appears to be a transitional piece of gear. The body of the vest has MOLLE/PALS webbing, but in all other respects it is an LBV 88 vest. Tag says it is a medic's vest, and it's covered with zippered medic pouches. Only vest of this type I've ever seen. Woodland, of course.
Here's my belt kit: http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb30/Andrewsky89/11002.jpg I like it a lot. I took the back half of the suspenders from an LBV 88 (you can also see this with some of the characters such as Dan Busch and Randy Shughart in the movie Black Hawk Down). These are far superior to the Y-Harness I had. I didn't care for the front "vest" portion of the LBV 88 because this is for M14 magazines. I'll be changing things around a little bit once I get my Camelbak. I actually like the ALICE clips so I have them on all of the magazine pouches. I have all the pouches zip tied to the belt just in case though. That being the case, I can use my enhanced LBV 88 for 5.56 mags, and attach 7.62 mag carriers to the Medic's vest. that is the medic vest. is is almost like the ELCS spears lbv. ceptthe front panels are straight and not angled like the elcs spears set up. I'd like toget one so i could keep my lbv set up but go to molle for some modulairty with out going to a full blown chest rig( like the lbv set up) Corect on both the medic vest and the SPEAR unit. I have both the GI medic vest (plus all the very useful Medic pouches) plus a decent copy of the SPEAR vest I bought cheap a few years ago. Between that and all the GI stuff I've accumulated since the Vietnam War, I figure I can put a few things together and experiment quite a bit. Not for nothing, but I've got a modifiied CFP-90 pack (made by LOWE), all the ALICE packs (with frames), and a MOLLE pack with the upgraded frame, plus some older LOWE mil packs. I've got vests stating with the enhanced LBV 88 vests onward, and more ALICE and evem MOLLE stuff than I can find. Given that a lot of this stuff is interchangeable, I have a big playground, so to speak. |
"The M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." General George S. Patton Jr.,US Army
The first two pics are of my ALICE LBE I used while in the Tn state guard. Add ons/ mods include: Black hawk H-suspenders and butt pack; and 1-liter camel back. I used zip ties to attach the CBK.
The second set of images is a hybrid alice/molle pack I put together. It is probably the most bullet proof pack I have ever used. I currently have three assembled(mine and my two oldest sons who are in scouts). The only group of boys who are harder on things than GI's  I will be building 1 more next week for my wife; once she saw how rugged these packs were she had to have one as well. I also have the additional parts saved away, so that when my youngest son is large enough; I'll put his together.
I like to call this hybrid the "ALLE Pack". My youngest son misunderstood and calls it the "alley cat"  I have now nicknamed it the "Hell Cat" We have taken it on numerous trips to the Smoky's and Appalacian trail; Cave trips; and back country big game hunts; It has performed flawlessly. Everyone who sees this pack is amazed at it's sturdiness; adaptability; bullet proof construction; and overall utility; At a bargain price to boot! It always draws curiousity seekers and comments.
The pack consists of alice frame; medium alice ruck; molle shoulder straps; molle moulded kidney belt; and molle sleep system carrier. NO MODIFICATIONS ARE NEEDED TO ASSEMBLE. Once assembled you have a medium capacity expedition pack; completely unitized(packed items won't shift); with top and bottom access. The pack has roughly 3500-4000 cubic inches of carrying capacity(3500 by dimensional calculations but closer to 4000 of actual capacity). Capacity can be expanded by either using a large ruck or adding molle sustainment pouches to one or both sides. That would potentially increase capacity up to 8000 cubic inches. The 5 packs that I own have cost me less than $250 combined. You have to shop around; but this pack can be easily assembled for less than $50. We'll be taking them on a cave trip this weekend; so when I return next week I'll put together a "how to" thread on it's assembly. |
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Originally Posted By SpyderTattoo: I like all the new plastic quick-clips hardware on the pics of the large alice pack, in place of the metal hardware. I was looking at my alice pack earlier today and noticed that the metal hardware is sewn into the pack by the nylon straps. I'm assuming that you ripped the stitches to remove the old hardware and install the new plastic hardware, then re-stitched the nylon webbing. I also found my old "Y" web suspenders and web belt. I started with trying to get rid of the rust on the metal hardware. Not much luck yet. Then I got rid of the metal clips on the 4 ends of the suspenders and used paracord to fasten the front 2 straps to the belt. I attatched my canvas but-pack with paracord (got rid of metal clips) to the belt, then again used paracord to tie the but-pack (2 grommets on top of but-pack) to the 2 rear straps of the suspenders. I like it already, seems quieter and like it flows more naturally (know what I mean? Seems more "organic"). Now I need to take a trip to the surplus store and pick up some magazine pouches, maybe something for a dump pouch. Oh yeah, I also found my M9 bayonet whith the web-belt attatchment clip, so I put that on my belt. My suspenders and belt are black, the but-pack is green canvas. The M9 is the 1st gen and has the green plastic handle and sheath. This is all kinda' fun to start making my web-rig. I'd rather spend money on ammo than brand-new web-gear. I'm interested in this as well. How hard was it to do all the sewing on the pack? Did you do it yourself or pay someone else? |
"It is better to live one day as a lion than a hundred years as a sheep."
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I don't have an ALICE pack infront of me but that is my guess as to how they did it. If you have a sewing machine you want to use some HD thread, a new needle, and box stitch the part back together after you rip the stitches apart. It's not to hard to do if you or someone you know knows how to sew, should only take you about 5-10min per piece to rip, replace, and restitch.
Enforcer, as I said in my IM to you THANK YOU again. I'm gathering up the parts to build my own Hell Cat. None of the packs on the market have really appealed to me at all. They all cost to damn much, come in stupid colors like bright red, feel to flimsy, and don't give me enough space for my junk. I really liked having a separate sleeping bag pocket in the backpacks my program rents out, but I hated how it was really more of an afterthought in the design of the pack. I've also wanted to get an external frame pack for some reason...but all the ones I've seen out there just don't appeal to me. Your Hell Cat design pretty much has everything I want in a pack at the moment. -Fits my budget at less then $100, possibly less then $50 -Has a dedicated sleeping bag carrier -Can have pouched added onto the sides to increase storage capacity -Rugged It might not be the lightest but if it lasts then it's worth it to carry that extra weight. |
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Originally Posted By 25Chuck:
Originally Posted By SpyderTattoo:
I like all the new plastic quick-clips hardware on the pics of the large alice pack, in place of the metal hardware. I was looking at my alice pack earlier today and noticed that the metal hardware is sewn into the pack by the nylon straps. I'm assuming that you ripped the stitches to remove the old hardware and install the new plastic hardware, then re-stitched the nylon webbing. I also found my old "Y" web suspenders and web belt. I started with trying to get rid of the rust on the metal hardware. Not much luck yet. Then I got rid of the metal clips on the 4 ends of the suspenders and used paracord to fasten the front 2 straps to the belt. I attatched my canvas but-pack with paracord (got rid of metal clips) to the belt, then again used paracord to tie the but-pack (2 grommets on top of but-pack) to the 2 rear straps of the suspenders. I like it already, seems quieter and like it flows more naturally (know what I mean? Seems more "organic"). Now I need to take a trip to the surplus store and pick up some magazine pouches, maybe something for a dump pouch. Oh yeah, I also found my M9 bayonet whith the web-belt attatchment clip, so I put that on my belt. My suspenders and belt are black, the but-pack is green canvas. The M9 is the 1st gen and has the green plastic handle and sheath. This is all kinda' fun to start making my web-rig. I'd rather spend money on ammo than brand-new web-gear. I'm interested in this as well. How hard was it to do all the sewing on the pack? Did you do it yourself or pay someone else? Not a lot of sewing needs to be done. For the main flap closure clips, the ones on the bottom can be affixed by obtaining a female clip and attaching a short length of strap to it, either by threading it through the plactic connector itself, or sewing on the plastic connector, depending on the configuration of the connector. Then, take the short length of strap and thread it through the lower metal buckle on the ALICE. That's done. For the upper, male clip, you'll probably have to un-stitch the rolled-up very end of the strap to remove it from the original steel buckle. Just install a male half of the clip assy, sew up the end of the nylon strap to keep it from being pulled through the clip by mistake, and you're GTG. The reason for using female clips down low, and male clips on top is so that if you want to attach an auxiliary day pack, like the MOLLE day pack, the clips on the ALICE pack will mate up with the ones on the day pack and allow its' attachment to the outside of the ALICE pack. To help keep the day pack from shifting, note that there are a couple of webbing loops stitched to the outside of the ALICE on the sides. Pass a fairly long strap through them and around the body of the ALICE pack. With the day pack in place, the strap, when tightened, keeps it from shifting. W/O day pack, the strap is a compression strap for the ALICE. You'll want an adjustable QR buckle on the strap as well. Sportsman's Guide sells a bag of OD nylon straps that are great for many uses. Note that the plastic quick release clips may, or may not interface with brands commonly available here in the States. Doesn't matter if the strap is used as a compression strap or the like, as long as the QR clips don't have to interface with other QR clips. |
"The M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." General George S. Patton Jr.,US Army
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Man you guys are putting the pressure on me! Just got back from cumberland caverns and took all three Hell cats. They worked admirably; I'll start working on my "how to" after the super bowl tonight. BTW; the packs aren't that heavy; They each weigh no more than my Dana K2. I'll try to get an accurate weight in the next day or so. Here are a few pics of our trip with the packs in action.
This my oldest son pacing his gear 
This my middle and youngest packing 
This is an interesting pic....My youngest dose not have a frame. I have a unique way of enhancing a medium alice so that a child as young as 3yo can carry it comfortably. I'll save that for another how to 
We had over 65 cubscouts go on this weekend trip. We were the first group out. The other scouts are shown wearing medium alice rucks that we bought in a group purchase along with there dads. We bought 35 packs all together. [ 
My boys just before we left the cave. 
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One very clever piece of Kit I've been looking at is the H.U.M.P.. It's basically a highly configurable pouch for your hydration bladder and its' carrier. One neat trick, pictured in the link, is how it can be installed between the ALICE pack and the frame, thus making use of some wasted space and also keeping the bladder out of the sun. Bladder and carrier can be easily removed/re-installed.
Link:http://www.1sks.com/store/spec-ops-brand-hump.html |
"The M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." General George S. Patton Jr.,US Army
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Originally Posted By raf:
One very clever piece of Kit I've been looking at is the H.U.M.P.. It's basically a highly configurable pouch for your hydration bladder and its' carrier. One neat trick, pictured in the link, is how it can be installed between the ALICE pack and the frame, thus making use of some wasted space and also keeping the bladder out of the sun. Bladder and carrier can be easily removed/re-installed. Link:http://www.1sks.com/store/spec-ops-brand-hump.html Camelback makes something called the unbottle and stowaway, it's basically a camel back with a cordura cover over top of it. The cover adds insulation to help keep water cool and they come with a hose insulator kit so the hose has a cover as does the mouthpiece. They have 4 D rings on the cover to allow you to lash it onto a pack or in this case onto the frame. |
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That Hellcat looks great. I sent you an IM for some advice on it. The one thing I liked about the Molle 2 ruck was the MSS carrier, but I hated the rest of the pack system. I do like the ALICE pack, and find it works good for me. The only problem with it is finding a good way to carry your sleep system., as I really like my MSS.
Would this work with aftermarket ALICE straps like the TT straps? that would be the cat's ass. |
| FWIW guys....Enforcer wasn't kidding about the about $50 price. I just quickly added up what I paid for my parts and it came to $64.99. I know for a fact I could have gotten everything for $60 but I was impatient and wanted to have the ALICE frame on it's way ASAP so I paid the $5 extra for a buy it now from a vendor |
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Should have the setup ready to post sometime tomorrow evening. Took pics sunday night after the superbowl and took a few more yesterday; and have been reducing them so they will load a little faster.
I did alittle math today; the packs as configured appear to weigh in at just a little over 5 lbs ea. I used bathroom scales so that is FWIW. 3 of my packs I paid $35ea; 1 I paid $45 and the other was $65; for a total of $215(includes shipping). That worked out to an avg cost of $43 ea. That cost was spread out over 5 years. That last two were more recently put together. |
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Originally Posted By Spitfire762:
That Hellcat looks great. I sent you an IM for some advice on it. The one thing I liked about the Molle 2 ruck was the MSS carrier, but I hated the rest of the pack system. I do like the ALICE pack, and find it works good for me. The only problem with it is finding a good way to carry your sleep system., as I really like my MSS. Would this work with aftermarket ALICE straps like the TT straps? that would be the cat's ass. Didn't get the IM......What do you mean by TT straps? I'm at work tonight so I can't get my "how to" completed untill tomorrow. All I can say is that the sleep system straps in w/o any problems; I believe you will really like it. I hope I can get it completed all in one post.....anyone know the limit to the number of pics in one post? |
ALICE Gear Setups (Page 4 of 23)
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