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Posted: 2/7/2014 12:57:49 PM EDT
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I'm hoping someone can help me out here. I have a Mossberg 20" 590 SN L77xxxx that leaves about 1 in 5 shells (sometimes worse) sitting in the chamber after racking the action. If I slam the action back home it does extract the shell the second attempt. Worst part is when it leaves the shell in there its racking quite easy like the extractors miss the shell head or are slipping off. However sometimes with real hot slugs I get some drag and the extractors pull the shell right out.
I'd buy new extractors and springs but all current available ones are for K88xxxx and above guns. Does anyone know if a newer bolt would allow me to use the current available extractors? I'm also wondering if this SN thing isn't just for the 500 series as they've been around forever. So far out of all the parts for the 590s these seem to be the only two with SN specific fitments. Bizarre! |
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I'll hazard a couple of suggestions before you start replacing parts...
I have no knowledge of your experience level so forgive me if you've already considered or checked these things. You didn't say, so I'll ask, what ammo are you using? Is the issue happening with an assortment of brands or just one? If you don't know, then I'd suggest trying a different ammo. Some of the cheap bulk type stuff has demonstrated cycling issues in some guns. My 590A1 seems to be 100% with anything I stuff in it, but guns are different. Next, I'll ask about cleanliness. Gunk can build up behind extractor(s) and keep them from fully closing up on the cartridge rim. Another area that crap can cause an issue is the cutouts for the extractors in the chamber face. If you haven't already, I'd suggest a good detail cleaning of these areas. Remove the barrel to clean the notches and remove the extractors and their springs from the bolt to completely clean these areas. This usually doesn't have to be done very often, but when diagnosing an issue it's best to eliminate every possible issue as you go along toward a solution. Are the extractor hooks still sharp or do they look worn and rounded? If you rule out the ammo and grunge and decide to try replacing things, just give Mossberg a call and I'd think you wouldn't have any trouble getting the right parts for your gun, if indeed there is a difference in these parts between different manufacturing date ranges. Good luck getting your gun running properly. |
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Thanks guys for the suggestions. I did contact Mossberg and they wanted me to send in the bolt. No RMA, no estimate, just send it in. I then started looking around and it seems 2-4 months is not unusual turn around for them. Since I haven't tried anything myself I figure I'd go that route first. There is a lot I can try and learn in a few days let alone months. I'm pretty versed in fixing, modifying and repairing guns. I just have no idea how it "should" be. The gun has been like this since I got it second hand.
So as for the issue. The Gun does this so far with Remington Reduced Recoil, Wolf and S&B slugs. I got this gun as a police trade-in so it was disgusting and no doubt sat in a armory rack or squad car for a long time. I literally had to scrape dirt and mung out of the gun and went through it when I first got it. Since then I've put maybe 100-125rnds through it. After the first cleaning I was getting a 3-5 failure rate and heard about the 0000 Steel wool on a down in the chamber and that helped a TON. However it still does it just less frequently. The gun was cleaned very well before this last outing. The extractors are perfectly clean, the barrel notches are perfect. The extractor on the right looks very sharp as you would expect. The left one is slightly rounded. Depending on the pictures I find on the web it looks normal or maybe a little worn. Still I believe the right one actually extracts the shell. As for parts, Mossberg doesn't stock these and I was directed to a company that sells out of prod Mossberg parts but they are semi-retired and should get back to me in a week or so. I'm sure they can get me the parts I want but if whats in it is flawed and I can replace with newer style I'd prefer to do so. I'm just not sure what was changed. Bolts for 500s (same as far as I know) are $30-60 on Gunbroker. Cheap but I'm not sure they'll fix the issue or even work. I hope they helps explain it a bit more. Suggestions are appreciated. |
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Well, that is a bit more info. Doesn't help be tell you what it might be, or how to fix it however.
You said the extractors are clean? Do you just mean behind the hooks and the face of the bolt, or did you actually remove the extractors from the bolt? I had an issue with a rifle once (forget what it was now) where the extractor wasn't getting a good purchase and was slipping off the case heads on occasion. It ended up being what I'm about to describe. If you look at the way the extractors on the Mossberg works, you'll see the spring is at the rear, the hook is at the front of course, and there is a pin in between. The spring pushes outward at the rear and the extractor pivots around the pin to squeeze the hook inward to catch the cartridge rim. Sometimes, especially on a really grimy gun like you describe, shit gets in the groove and packs in between the forward part of the extractor and the bolt. This will keep the extractor from having its full range of motion to grip the cartridge rim fully. The only way to really be sure is to pull the bolt, punch the pins, remove the extractors, and make sure the back sides of them, and the insides of the grooves are thoroughly clean. Wow! Mossberg doesn't stock common parts for their guns? Damn! 
It's been a few years, but I once snapped an extractor on a Ruger Mark II. I called Ruger to try to order one. The girl on the phone ask for my address, and said she'd mail one to me right away. No charge, and I had it a few days later! Had a similar experience with my Dillon reloading press. I broke a part due to my own stupidity. When I called to order the part, fully planning to pay for it, I was told the same thing. No charge and I had the part in a few days. THAT'S customer service.  I guess that must explain why I've heard that Mossberg's customer service sucks. In light of that, and while I have two now and never had an issue, I probably won't be buying from them in the future. A company that doesn't offer parts support for their product doesn't deserve my money, IMO. 
If you do decide to replace the parts yourself, while I haven't looked, I'd be surprised if you couldn't get them from either Brownells or Numrich. It's not like a 590 is really an old or obscure firearm. |
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That's not a bad idea. I never did remove the extractors. I'll do that tomorrow and check them out.
As for Mossberg not stocking parts there are TONS of parts in stock at various distributors but they have this curious little note about the extractors being for SN K880000 and above. I have no idea if this is just for 500's or if it applies to all four models these extractors fit (500, 590, 695 and 835). Mine is a L77xxxx serial numbered 590. That kind of lead to my other question of can I just replace the bolt with a newer one. So that I can use parts I can order from Midway, Brownells, etc. instead of my older unobtainable extractors. |
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+1 on the gunk theory. That said, I can chime in with my .02,
First, ALL of the Mossberg pump gun extractors [and maybe some of their semi-autos] are functionally the same part. 500, 590, 835 if you hold them next to each other, you can't tell a difference, despite the fact that Mossberg/Nurmich,/brownells/midway lists them all as being unique snowflakes. Second, the back side extractor [the rounded one] is mostly there to provide opposing pressure on the rim. These guns will successfully extract even if re-assembled without the backside spring even in the gun. The rounded part is by design, think of it as a filler. The spring can be thought of as a built in spare. If your hook side spring is wonky, try just swapping them side to side. The backside spring generally takes less abuse and is usually "fresher" than the hook side. Third, the hook side should be sharp, but not chisel sharp It should have a very slight hook shape, but not drastically so. The actual shape of the ground part of the hook seems to be the only thing that varies at all between the parts intended for different models, and IMHO the variation is within manufacturing tolerances. Fourth, look at your hook side extractor cutout in the barrel. occasionally there is a booger left over from the milling process. The cutout should be smooth and squared up. With your bolt and barrel out of the gun, stick a dummy round in the chamber, then push the bolt up in position, and observe the movement of the extractors. The extractor cuts should not spread the extractors enough to come off the rim of the shell. if they do, carefully shape the pointy part of the extractor so it mates with the extractor cutout, but does not completely lift off the rim. Fifth, the same trick with the little polymer or rubber spring plug that improves extraction on an AR bolt works on the Mossberg bolt. Unfortunately a Dfender does not fit, but a small piece of hard rubber [I used a really small hollow punch on a radiator hose to get the right sized chunk of rubber] stuck inside the spring will increase extractor tension. Sixth, the steel wool on a spinning stick is a great idea, polish the chamber until you can see the reflection of your fingerprint.. |
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Quoted:
Um, your serial of L77xxxx is above serial number K880000. Wow! Good eye! To be honest, my eyes just glazed over when I saw the SNs and I didn't even pay attention to the number sequence. WIth that said, barrysuperhawk had some good suggestions that I'd follow before ordering a new part. Clean first, then while apart check everything he suggested. THEN, if none of that helps order a new extractor. After all, there's no point in getting a new part just to find it still has an issue. |
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