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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - KSG (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 10/8/2011 9:02:56 PM EDT
| Has there been any updates on it? Release date, improvements? |
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Quoted: Vaporware dude... I wouldn't go that far, dude.  Kel-Tec has a solid reputation for coming through with their innovative designs and bringing them to production eventually... unfortunately, they have and equally solid (and deserved, I'm afraid) reputation for it taking way longer than fans would like and very small numbers/limited distribution at first. I've owned most everything they have made and am a big fan of both the company and their products, but even I have to admit that I hated waiting as long as I did and paying as much as I did for my RFB... and I still haven't gotten my hands on a PMR. There are a handful of functional sample KSGs making the rounds right now (one was at the recnt bullpup shoot) and I have no doubt that they will come to market and I will eventually have one (probably two)... but I am also fairly confident that, official statements of "end of this year" notwithstanding, I am at least a year or more away from seeing one available locally. In the meantime (and no disrespect meant for KT), I have already ordered one of the 870 conversions linked above.  If you want to talk "vaporware" in terms of cool shotgun ideas, google "kushnapup." |
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My only answer is that I believe Keltec is very fiscally conservative, and won't take out loans to increase production. They only save up for new staff and machinery as profits allow.
Imagine they did spend 20 million on extra staff/shifts, and a bunch of new CNC rigs just to make pissed off potential PMR or KSG buyers happy, and suddenly the economy gets even worse, discretionary spending dries up completely, and people don't really need a KSG when they've got a Rem 870 already... -or- They meet the market demand for X-thousand KSG's, and suddenly once it's met, demand falls off, and they're not bringing in enough profits for debt service on all the new manufacturing capacity they bought. Still it's just guesses on my part, but I think Keltec is playing it long-term here, and they'd rather piss off their customers with unmet demand, than risk bankruptcy, being owned by a bank, or needing some sort of bailout by Cerberus Group or whatnot. We're not used to seeing this kind of behavior from corporate America, where long-term success is always done away with in favor of any and all short term gains possible. The boards of directors and CEO's of publicly held corporations answer to the shareholders, and not the employees, or the customers. So when a hit product comes around, they'll leverage the hell out of it ASAP, and not worry about "tomorrow". The shareholders are happy (temporarily, at least) and if it's risky long-term, the CEO doesn't really give a damn, because he's rated on a quarterly and yearly basis, and has his golden parachute... When you're privately owned, you don't have any of those pressures, but you've also got skin in the game too. That makes you careful. I think we'll see higher volumes of Keltec's rarer products like the RFB, the PMR, and the upcoming KSG and RMR in the mid 2013 time-frame, if the economy improves, and elections mean we get a handle on the U.S. debt and spending etc. |
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I'm waiting for a KSG,too. Neither of the bull pups above is of interest to me, not even close. Please elaborate. What do you find appealing about the KSG but not the BU? how about 14 +1 rounds vs 8+1, and then on top of that a shotgun designed from the get go to be a bullpup vs a conversion kit. |
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I'm waiting for a KSG,too. Neither of the bull pups above is of interest to me, not even close. Please elaborate. What do you find appealing about the KSG but not the BU? how about 14 +1 rounds vs 8+1, and then on top of that a shotgun designed from the get go to be a bullpup vs a conversion kit. I don't see why that matters. If it works, It works. Not to mention Kel tec can never keep up with production.... YMMV. I have no dog in this fight..... |
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I'm waiting for a KSG,too. Neither of the bull pups above is of interest to me, not even close. Please elaborate. What do you find appealing about the KSG but not the BU? how about 14 +1 rounds vs 8+1, and then on top of that a shotgun designed from the get go to be a bullpup vs a conversion kit. I don't see why that matters. If it works, It works. Not to mention Kel tec can never keep up with production.... YMMV. I have no dog in this fight..... the question would be how well it works. the only bullpup conversion I've seen was on an AK and the trigger design was atrocious. not saying this one is the same, just throwing it out there |
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I'm waiting for a KSG,too. Neither of the bull pups above is of interest to me, not even close. Please elaborate. What do you find appealing about the KSG but not the BU? how about 14 +1 rounds vs 8+1, and then on top of that a shotgun designed from the get go to be a bullpup vs a conversion kit. I don't see why that matters. If it works, It works. Not to mention Kel tec can never keep up with production.... YMMV. I have no dog in this fight..... the question would be how well it works. the only bullpup conversion I've seen was on an AK and the trigger design was atrocious. not saying this one is the same, just throwing it out there I hear the BU is the real deal..... I just wish kel tec would make an rfb in 5.56.... |
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Well the KSG I was evaluating is still in the shop....I have heard nothing from Kel-Tec in regards to shipping date, price, or if they are going to make any improvements over the prototypes that some of us were asked to evaluate. I hope they make a few changes, but even i they do not, I will still buy one for myself.
-PC- |
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I have had one on order since very early this year. Just asked TGS about an update. "The KSG we have no updates on availability, we communicate with supplier and they have no further as well. There were and have been issues with the weapon that have and continue to be changed, which has slowed down the production etc.. Sorry we cannot be more helpful, but we have no information as well. Thank you for contacting us and have a great day! Matt Hill Customer Service" I have a couple KelTec weapons and have been very impressed with the innovation and value. I will wait. |
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have been very impressed with the innovation and value. I will wait. I completely agree with all three observations, especially the last one. Kel-Tec production is a joke that isn't funny anymore. I encourage anyone waiting like I am to put there name on the list and then promptly forget about it. If the phone rings one day and there is one with your name on it, good for you. If you die first and your next of kin picks up the phone maybe it will be funny again.
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I encourage anyone waiting like I am to put there name on the list and then promptly forget about it. What list? I should have said, "a list". Some on-line retailers were taking names, let your local dealer know you're interested, etc. Based on RFB distribution practices you could write your order on a piece of paper, stuff it in a bottle, and throw it in the ocean. Your chances would be just as good. |
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Do we know whether Keltec has received positive or negative feedback from those who have worked with the prototype units. They look great but only those who used the demos know whether the functionality is there, what the handling characteristics are, etc. I wonder if the projections for units sold has kept pace with our personal desires to have one.
If they've received a lot of negative feedback, or the list of fixes is long, then this KSG project may never be realized. |
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So, during this wonderful thanksgiving, I was at my sisters house and watched/played a little Call of Duty MW3 (Mods: please don't ban me for this), and wouldn't you know it the KSG is one of the weapons available......I couldn't believe it. The last time I checked the COC playing a little Call of Duty wasn't a ban-able offense. |
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Quoted: Do we know whether Keltec has received positive or negative feedback from those who have worked with the prototype units... Some first-hand feedback here and there in these threads... http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_43/354079_The_KSG_drew_some_blood___.html http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_43/346399_Bullpup_Shoot_2011____September_24th___Impact_Training___Mt__Carroll_Illinois__FREE__.html http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_43/352421_Bullpup_Shoot_After_Action_Report.html Maybe a few others as well, but I remembered these. |
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From the KTOG forum, it is only a rumor and it is not an official word from Kel-Tec. KTOG forum member Narsil wrote "I finally picked up an RFB today at the B & H Gunrack in Cocoa which is 20 minutes away from the Kel-Tec mothership. I headed straight to the mothership after leaving the B & H to pick up a couple accessories. I bought the tactical operating handle and the muzzle brake. I asked if one of their techs could swap the brake for the stock flash hider since I'd rather not have to mess with it (and it turned out that I'm glad I didn't) and I was willing to pay a service fee for them to do it. They swapped it out for me at no charge (turns out mine was on exceptionally tight and it took three guys to get it off) and when Chad brought my RFB out, he brought out his KSG with him.
He confirmed that it was a production model and I got to play with it for a few minutes, unfortunately he didn't offer to let me shoot it. It cycled beautifully smoothly and had a very crisp trigger, especially for a bullpup. If you've fired or dryfired an RFB, you know how nice Kel-Tec's bullpup triggers are. It's no custom two-stage match trigger but it is worlds better than an AUG, MSAR, or P90's long, mushy, spongy trigger. Not having gotten to fire it, it seems to be everything I was hoping it would be and I will definitely be looking to get one; I don't mind having first-gen teething problems. When I asked him about expected release dates, he said that they were already producing them and were trying to get more stock ready for this release than previous release dates where only a few people seemed to get one and everybody else was screaming, "Where's my PF9/RFB/PMR30??" He said they expected to release them before Kel-Tec shuts down for Christmas. Here's to hoping they succeed and there's plenty of stock available at Christmas! " Kel-Tec will be completely shut down for two weeks over the Holidays. This year will be from 12/24/11-1/08/12, returning to work January 9th. FYI for those still interested. |
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Well, I might have some good news guys. We transferred a KSG for a guy up here a month or so back, Kel-Tec direct, so I am assuming it was out for T&E for the winter.
Point is that they are being produced. Looked brand new when it was logged in. Wasn't allowed to touch though 
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Anyone seen a semi auto version with higher capacity yet?
I think SRM upped the anty on this one. 
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From the KTOG forum, it is only a rumor and it is not an official word from Kel-Tec. KTOG forum member Narsil wrote "I finally picked up an RFB today at the B & H Gunrack in Cocoa which is 20 minutes away from the Kel-Tec mothership. I headed straight to the mothership after leaving the B & H to pick up a couple accessories. I bought the tactical operating handle and the muzzle brake. I asked if one of their techs could swap the brake for the stock flash hider since I'd rather not have to mess with it (and it turned out that I'm glad I didn't) and I was willing to pay a service fee for them to do it. They swapped it out for me at no charge (turns out mine was on exceptionally tight and it took three guys to get it off) and when Chad brought my RFB out, he brought out his KSG with him.
He confirmed that it was a production model and I got to play with it for a few minutes, unfortunately he didn't offer to let me shoot it. It cycled beautifully smoothly and had a very crisp trigger, especially for a bullpup. If you've fired or dryfired an RFB, you know how nice Kel-Tec's bullpup triggers are. It's no custom two-stage match trigger but it is worlds better than an AUG, MSAR, or P90's long, mushy, spongy trigger. Not having gotten to fire it, it seems to be everything I was hoping it would be and I will definitely be looking to get one; I don't mind having first-gen teething problems. When I asked him about expected release dates, he said that they were already producing them and were trying to get more stock ready for this release than previous release dates where only a few people seemed to get one and everybody else was screaming, "Where's my PF9/RFB/PMR30??" He said they expected to release them before Kel-Tec shuts down for Christmas. Here's to hoping they succeed and there's plenty of stock available at Christmas! " Kel-Tec will be completely shut down for two weeks over the Holidays. This year will be from 12/24/11-1/08/12, returning to work January 9th. FYI for those still interested. Update? |
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From the KTOG forum, it is only a rumor and it is not an official word from Kel-Tec. KTOG forum member Narsil wrote "I finally picked up an RFB today at the B & H Gunrack in Cocoa which is 20 minutes away from the Kel-Tec mothership. I headed straight to the mothership after leaving the B & H to pick up a couple accessories. I bought the tactical operating handle and the muzzle brake. I asked if one of their techs could swap the brake for the stock flash hider since I'd rather not have to mess with it (and it turned out that I'm glad I didn't) and I was willing to pay a service fee for them to do it. They swapped it out for me at no charge (turns out mine was on exceptionally tight and it took three guys to get it off) and when Chad brought my RFB out, he brought out his KSG with him.
He confirmed that it was a production model and I got to play with it for a few minutes, unfortunately he didn't offer to let me shoot it. It cycled beautifully smoothly and had a very crisp trigger, especially for a bullpup. If you've fired or dryfired an RFB, you know how nice Kel-Tec's bullpup triggers are. It's no custom two-stage match trigger but it is worlds better than an AUG, MSAR, or P90's long, mushy, spongy trigger. Not having gotten to fire it, it seems to be everything I was hoping it would be and I will definitely be looking to get one; I don't mind having first-gen teething problems. When I asked him about expected release dates, he said that they were already producing them and were trying to get more stock ready for this release than previous release dates where only a few people seemed to get one and everybody else was screaming, "Where's my PF9/RFB/PMR30??" He said they expected to release them before Kel-Tec shuts down for Christmas. Here's to hoping they succeed and there's plenty of stock available at Christmas! " Kel-Tec will be completely shut down for two weeks over the Holidays. This year will be from 12/24/11-1/08/12, returning to work January 9th. FYI for those still interested. Update? Yup- one just sold for $2350. 
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=266959014 ...and another one just ended on Gunbroker for $2400......oh, the price you pay to be the first..... 
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Here's on that's at nearly $1,600 right now!
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=266951611 
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Anyone seen a semi auto version with higher capacity yet? I think SRM upped the anty on this one. Only 2.5k.... |
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I'm gonna bump this shit!
Here we are less then 36 hours til the new year, this huge ass web site full of gun nuts and survivolist freaks and nobody knows when or if this thing is coming to market? I can't believe that! Somebody knows something! 
Post up goddamit! 
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Quoted: I'm gonna bump this shit! Here we are less then 36 hours til the new year, this huge ass web site full of gun nuts and survivolist freaks and nobody knows when or if this thing is coming to market? I can't believe that! Somebody knows something! It's been posted elsewhere on this site and others already. The first ones have shipped, but the numbers are small (250, IIRC) and the prices, where one is available, are ridiculously inflated accordingly in most cases. It will likely be quite a while before prices come down anywhere near MSRP, but I would love to be wrong 'cause I want one too. |
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$599???????? http://aeonarms.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=&products_id=6189 "Number Available - 0" Regardless, they chose a bad time to release them. I respect that they close shop for a couple weeks, but why in the hell would you release a brand new concept firearm (and not release anywhere near the number demanded,) then to go on Holiday for 2 weeks, promising to make more when they get back.
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Ummm Because they had 200 of them made, so why not ship them.Because 200 doesn't satisfy any demand, creates the same issue they had with the RFB, and now everyone will laugh as they go for absurd amounts until people figure out they aren't worth it. That means people who are not stupid are going to have to wait months to get one at a reasonable cost. Had they waited and released a moderately acceptable amount, no one would be buying them for thousands of dollars, and gunshops wouldn't try to charge 1500 for them even when the internet costs come down. |
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If they didn't ship the 250 they had completed before their shop closing then people would be bitching that they hadn't been released yet. I totally dispute your assertion early buyers are stupid. We all know production is going to continue and they will be available at reasonable prices soon. If someone wants to pay a premium to get one sooner thats their business. Don't worry so much about what other people pay for something they want. |
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We all know production is going to continue and they will be available at reasonable prices soon. With Kel Tec's Monkeys on Meth production plan I don't know that. If someone wants to pay a premium to get one sooner thats their business. Don't worry so much about what other people pay for something they want. How about the people who paid three times what they should have for a house and now they've walked away from it? Can we call them stupid? If we are forced to live in this global economy and bail out the dumb asses, we damn well still be entitled to our own opinions. Here's mine: Anyone who pays more than $1500 for a KSG is pretty stupid. |
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I have to say, that a year of hype, a year of almost nothing from the company that created it and an approximate date of release for 200-250 units? That's pretty shitty! Not a great way of doing business. So, we the end user get fucked with a higher premium because the company can't deliver what was promised? Did Kel-tec charge a premium for the delivered units? Probably not, yet the consumer has to pay one! If they wanted more units by the end of the year, they could have easily contracted out work to other, bigger gun makers for parts or whole units! Somebody said already in this thread, I bet they will never give a release date again, after this fiasco! With all that being said, I still plan on buying one, but I won't pay a premium for one, ever!
It's sad that in this country profits and greed have replaced ethics and morals! |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - KSG (Page 1 of 3)
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