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Posted: 7/10/2011 3:03:24 PM EDT
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Well, I love my M4S90, but I also want a nice, simple, combat shotgun. Something without chokes. Without being semi-auto. Basically, I want an anvil of a weapon. Also, I would like to be able to reliably (my M4 is reliable with low-recoil stuff, but only if you hold it firm to the shoulder, etc.) fire reduced-recoil, etc.
Anyway, I am contemplating something like a Vang Comp 870, or a Nighthawk 870 (I used to not be a fan, but they are about the same price as a vang comp, and I researched a little and unlike Wilson (that I am aware of), they actually DO use Vang Comp barrel work. Plus the permakote finish is a perk, so I backpedal on my previous judgment of the NH for now.) My point is, I have heard a lot of woe about shell-stops and them coming loose. From what I understand, if they DO come un-staked, it's not like an AR-15 gas key coming un-staked. The weapon should still function 100% in every way. It will just be a real PITA to re-assemble until you re-stake the stops. Is this correct? How common do these come un-staked on Police models? Are there any other weak-points in the 870 design? |
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Your post brings back memories. I was at at shotgun class when my M4S90 shit a piston. Hans Vang was there and let me use one of his shotguns to finish the class. I really liked it Upon return home, I sent him my 870P for the "Vang Comp" treatment, backbored and ported, with LPA sights installed and then 'parked'. I've put that shotgun through a lot of work, probably around 800-1000 rnds. It has never hiccuped, or missed a step, and the shell stop has never given me any cause for concern. As far as I'm concerned, if you were to purchase one his guns, you would not be making a wrong choice.
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| In all my years, I have only heard about the shell stops coming unstaked only once but have never seen it in person. I don't think it is something to be even remotely concerned about. Buy an 870 and run it as hard as you can. You will find that it is one of the toughest, most dependable shotguns out there. |
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Your post brings back memories. I was at at shotgun class when my M4S90 shit a piston. Hans Vang was there and let me use one of his shotguns to finish the class. I really liked it Upon return home, I sent him my 870P for the "Vang Comp" treatment, backbored and ported, with LPA sights installed and then 'parked'. I've put that shotgun through a lot of work, probably around 800-1000 rnds. It has never hiccuped, or missed a step, and the shell stop has never given me any cause for concern. As far as I'm concerned, if you were to purchase one his guns, you would not be making a wrong choice. how did it pattern buck compared to your choked m4? Like what I'm hearing. I want a minimalist shotgun of high quality. My m4 is like a Rolls-Royce, I'm looking for a Ariel atom, too.. |
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In all my years, I have only heard about the shell stops coming unstaked only once but have never seen it in person. I don't think it is something to be even remotely concerned about. Buy an 870 and run it as hard as you can. You will find that it is one of the toughest, most dependable shotguns out there. I have been a 870 fan my whole life. I also currently own two 870's that wont pull shells out of the magtube 
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Haven't seen any issues in the several 870's I've had first-hand experience with (mine, some buddy's, etc). Very very solid.
And parts are cheap, so if anything goes wrong, it's usually an easy fix. And about the buckshot... If you use FliteControl wad rounds from Federal, or VersaTite from Hornady (same thing), then you'll get a 5" spread at 30 feet. That's out of a Cylinder bore, since that's what the wads were designed for. They actually get worse out of tighter chokes. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Your post brings back memories. I was at at shotgun class when my M4S90 shit a piston. Hans Vang was there and let me use one of his shotguns to finish the class. I really liked it Upon return home, I sent him my 870P for the "Vang Comp" treatment, backbored and ported, with LPA sights installed and then 'parked'. I've put that shotgun through a lot of work, probably around 800-1000 rnds. It has never hiccuped, or missed a step, and the shell stop has never given me any cause for concern. As far as I'm concerned, if you were to purchase one his guns, you would not be making a wrong choice. how did it pattern buck compared to your choked m4? Like what I'm hearing. I want a minimalist shotgun of high quality. My m4 is like a Rolls-Royce, I'm looking for a Ariel atom, too.. Once I got my 870 back from Hans, and finally got Beretta to send me a piston and some O rings for my M4, I took them both to the range and shot 00buck, both low recoil and standard. The choked Benelli will shoot a slightly tighter pattern than my 870P which is open cylinder. |
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In all my years, I have only heard about the shell stops coming unstaked only once but have never seen it in person. I don't think it is something to be even remotely concerned about. Buy an 870 and run it as hard as you can. You will find that it is one of the toughest, most dependable shotguns out there. I have been a 870 fan my whole life. I also currently own two 870's that wont pull shells out of the magtube Wow. I help maintain 500+ 870s and except for the occasional, and I do mean occasional, extractor or ejector spring replacement, we have had no problems with ours. I have two that see significantly more use then the other shotguns and again, no problems. Do you know what the problem is? |
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Hans builds a really great shotgun and is an absolute pleasure to do business with. Although an 870 is a rock solid gun they can break just like anything else. I had one that broke and was unable to be fired until the forearm assembly was replaced. Having a Vang Comp complete build I don't see the barrel mods to be completely nessasary to get the most out of your gun but the Vang comp sight package is better than others that I have seen. If your in the market for a custom 870 there is nobody better to deal with than Hans Vang.
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| I bought an old 870 police shotgun from the late 60s a couple years ago, and the right side shellstop needs restaked. It goes back together with a little more difficultly, but once you get the pins in the trgger assembly, it works fine. I will get it restaked sometime or another. I might try to do it myself. It doesn`t look that hard. |
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The 870 is about as solid as they come in pump operated shotguns. Mine has withstood terrible treatment, as it did not extract low brass normally, or anything when hot, so I was running failure to extract drills constantly in training and in competition. Chamber polishing helped it a little, but it never ran as reliably feeding or extracting as the Mossberg 930 that replaced it.
I'd say the weak points in the design are more ergonomic and will become evident in use. The 870 has a very small loading port and a lifter that stays down while reloading. It is therefore much more difficult to reload when grasping 2-4 shells at a time from a caddy than a weapon with a wider, longer loading port and/or lifter that stays out of the way. I also do not like the safety location. This is subjective, but I would rather it be on the receiver tang or forward of the trigger guard. I do not know if there is any difference in extractive power in tilt-bolt (870, 500/590, etc) vs rotary bolt (1300, Nova/Supernova). There are other factors at play, but all being equal, a camming rotary bolt should provide more mechanical advantage for chambering and extraction. |
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I have four of them, no issues. One is a Police Wingmaster that has been rocking since 1967. Any initial problems, rough action, trouble ejecting crap shells; will go away after shooting it a while. Get a basic or HD model, a bulk pack of Remington or Federal bird shot, lube it up and shoot away. This should smooth it up and break it in just fine.
Shoot it and it will get smooth as silk. You can polish the chamber a little (about 5 minutes using 0000 steel wool wrapped around a cleaning brush) and even the Winchester bulk pack shells will eject with no issues. AIP Tactical has a bunch of great how to videos...polishing and upgrades and such. I would get one of JD's scatterguns before Wilson. After you shoot it a while you can see what customizations you may want to meet your needs. I have replaced two stocks, one with a short LOP SpeedFeed and the other with a Mesa Tactical Urbino. With the (Limb Saver equipped) Urbino, there is very little felt recoil. I shot Mossbergs in the Navy and did not care for them. They seemed to be all rattled apart and there always a few about broken in the armory. M2C, YMMV |
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Spoke with Hans Vang today, and I really liked his attitude/mindset toward what an 870 should be. If I buy one of his 870's, I have faith that it will be G2G. I want something basic. My Benelli M4 is my "toy" gun that I do all the fancy stuff to. Hans Vang seems to be a KISS minded individual––if it doesn't WORK and provide tangible value, why?
Basic 870P from Vang Comp (refinish, LPA sights, Tritium front-sight, Vang-Comp barrel treatment, Vang safety) No ports +2 extension and spring/follower I will figure out what stock and add-ons (if any) I want later on, as recommended. Until then, I plan on shooting the hell out of it! One question for you Vang Comp owners...what does his finish look like? He explained it is not hot bluing, but not park/mag either. Anyone have a description of feel/look/up-close pix or anything? |
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In all my years, I have only heard about the shell stops coming unstaked only once but have never seen it in person. I don't think it is something to be even remotely concerned about. Buy an 870 and run it as hard as you can. You will find that it is one of the toughest, most dependable shotguns out there. I have been a 870 fan my whole life. I also currently own two 870's that wont pull shells out of the magtube Wow. I help maintain 500+ 870s and except for the occasional, and I do mean occasional, extractor or ejector spring replacement, we have had no problems with ours. I have two that see significantly more use then the other shotguns and again, no problems. Do you know what the problem is? The messed up thing is I bought them almost ten years apart. One is a police and one is a express. Being the shells wont come out of the tube I assume the stops need to be re staked. I havent fixed them because I never shoot the pumps anymore, went semi and never looked back |
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In all my years, I have only heard about the shell stops coming unstaked only once but have never seen it in person. I don't think it is something to be even remotely concerned about. Buy an 870 and run it as hard as you can. You will find that it is one of the toughest, most dependable shotguns out there. I have been a 870 fan my whole life. I also currently own two 870's that wont pull shells out of the magtube Wow. I help maintain 500+ 870s and except for the occasional, and I do mean occasional, extractor or ejector spring replacement, we have had no problems with ours. I have two that see significantly more use then the other shotguns and again, no problems. Do you know what the problem is? The messed up thing is I bought them almost ten years apart. One is a police and one is a express. Being the shells wont come out of the tube I assume the stops need to be re staked. I havent fixed them because I never shoot the pumps anymore, went semi and never looked back From what I understand, the shell-stops coming un-staked only matters on disassembly. It will not effect function of an assembled weapon. It just makes it a pain to put back together. |
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In all my years, I have only heard about the shell stops coming unstaked only once but have never seen it in person. I don't think it is something to be even remotely concerned about. Buy an 870 and run it as hard as you can. You will find that it is one of the toughest, most dependable shotguns out there. I have been a 870 fan my whole life. I also currently own two 870's that wont pull shells out of the magtube Wow. I help maintain 500+ 870s and except for the occasional, and I do mean occasional, extractor or ejector spring replacement, we have had no problems with ours. I have two that see significantly more use then the other shotguns and again, no problems. Do you know what the problem is? The messed up thing is I bought them almost ten years apart. One is a police and one is a express. Being the shells wont come out of the tube I assume the stops need to be re staked. I havent fixed them because I never shoot the pumps anymore, went semi and never looked back From what I understand, the shell-stops coming un-staked only matters on disassembly. It will not effect function of an assembled weapon. It just makes it a pain to put back together. That is generally true. ALASKANFIRE: Have either of your 870s ever worked correctly? It sure sounds like you have the shell stops pushed to the wrong side of the action arm (might happen when you reassemble the the bolt and fore end). Without looking at your guns I can't say with 100% accuracy.... but I'd bet whatever the problem its going to be an easy fix. |
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In all my years, I have only heard about the shell stops coming unstaked only once but have never seen it in person. I don't think it is something to be even remotely concerned about. Buy an 870 and run it as hard as you can. You will find that it is one of the toughest, most dependable shotguns out there. I have been a 870 fan my whole life. I also currently own two 870's that wont pull shells out of the magtube Wow. I help maintain 500+ 870s and except for the occasional, and I do mean occasional, extractor or ejector spring replacement, we have had no problems with ours. I have two that see significantly more use then the other shotguns and again, no problems. Do you know what the problem is? The messed up thing is I bought them almost ten years apart. One is a police and one is a express. Being the shells wont come out of the tube I assume the stops need to be re staked. I havent fixed them because I never shoot the pumps anymore, went semi and never looked back From what I understand, the shell-stops coming un-staked only matters on disassembly. It will not effect function of an assembled weapon. It just makes it a pain to put back together. That is generally true. ALASKANFIRE: Have either of your 870s ever worked correctly? It sure sounds like you have the shell stops pushed to the wrong side of the action arm (might happen when you reassemble the the bolt and fore end). Without looking at your guns I can't say with 100% accuracy.... but I'd bet whatever the problem its going to be an easy fix. The express did. I would laugh my ass off if I just put them together wrong. A local gunsmith who I shoot with is very familiar with the platform and has offered to fix them for free. He thinks it is probably simple too I just have to get off my ass and take them in |
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You can use an automatic center punch to re-stake the shell stop latch (use the trigger pins and a small C clamp to hold it place while you upset some metal inside the receiver with that auto punch)
I'll got out on a limb and say 9 out of 10 loose shell latches are caused by someone driving the trigger group pins back into place without having the holes in the latches lined up with the hole in the receiver. The pin goes in, hits the latch, and pushes it out of place and loosens the staking. |
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It took 21 years before I broke my first part in my 870 Express. It was the slide plate which I just replaced. I still need to get to the range for tests. It took me a while to get it apart, because I never had to do it before now! 870's are good to go for the long hall... John |
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It took 21 years before I broke my first part in my 870 Express. It was the slide plate which I just replaced. I still need to get to the range for tests. It took me a while to get it apart, because I never had to do it before now! 870's are good to go for the long hall... John Slide Plate? Isn't that the large chunk of steel under the bolt? How did it break and how did that occur? |
| If you want an "anvil" of a tactical shotgun, then you would do well to look at the Nova/Supernova. Chromed Bores, rotory bolts, redy to run hard from the box. If I were going to a gunfight, and offered some overpriced, pretty painted Nighthawk/Vang/Wilson Tactical 870, or a Nova/Supernova Tactical straight from the box, I would take the Nova/Supernova tactical every single time. Modern versatite/flight control wad ammo has given every shotgun made the ability to shoot as tight or tighter groups than any "Vanged" barrel, and it provides that ability consistently and affordably. If I were going back to the gunfight, and given the choice of a Vang Comp barrel with regular wad buckshot, or a plain barrel with versatite/flightcontrol buckshot, I would take the plain barrel with the versatite/flightcontrol buckshot every time. |
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If you want an "anvil" of a tactical shotgun, then you would do well to look at the Nova/Supernova. Chromed Bores, rotory bolts, redy to run hard from the box. If I were going to a gunfight, and offered some overpriced, pretty painted Nighthawk/Vang/Wilson Tactical 870, or a Nova/Supernova Tactical straight from the box, I would take the Nova/Supernova tactical every single time. Modern versatite/flight control wad ammo has given every shotgun made the ability to shoot as tight or tighter groups than any "Vanged" barrel, and it provides that ability consistently and affordably. If I were going back to the gunfight, and given the choice of a Vang Comp barrel with regular wad buckshot, or a plain barrel with versatite/flightcontrol buckshot, I would take the plain barrel with the versatite/flightcontrol buckshot every time. In my experience, Benelli's hate FC. Mine sure does. Vang Comp makes it to where any buckshot will pattern very well. Besides, I like 000. I also like LPA sights. Just because the NH is "pretty" does not mean it won't run like a scalded dog and perform very well. |
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If you want an "anvil" of a tactical shotgun, then you would do well to look at the Nova/Supernova. Chromed Bores, rotory bolts, redy to run hard from the box. If I were going to a gunfight, and offered some overpriced, pretty painted Nighthawk/Vang/Wilson Tactical 870, or a Nova/Supernova Tactical straight from the box, I would take the Nova/Supernova tactical every single time. Modern versatite/flight control wad ammo has given every shotgun made the ability to shoot as tight or tighter groups than any "Vanged" barrel, and it provides that ability consistently and affordably. If I were going back to the gunfight, and given the choice of a Vang Comp barrel with regular wad buckshot, or a plain barrel with versatite/flightcontrol buckshot, I would take the plain barrel with the versatite/flightcontrol buckshot every time. In my experience, Benelli's hate FC. Mine sure does. Vang Comp makes it to where any buckshot will pattern very well. Besides, I like 000. I also like LPA sights. Just because the NH is "pretty" does not mean it won't run like a scalded dog and perform very well. How many "Benelli's" have you run FC through? 1? 10? What choke were you useing? Useing more than MOD will screw up the FC wads performance. In MY experience, 3 Benellis shoot FC buckshot just fine. |
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How many "Benelli's" have you run FC through? 1? 10? What choke were you useing? Useing more than MOD will screw up the FC wads performance. In MY experience, 3 Benellis shoot FC buckshot just fine. My Benelli M1 and M3 like FC just fine as well-of course, neither of mine have choked barrels. Am I dividing by zero when I shoot flight control buck through my Vang Comp ported M1? 
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If you want an "anvil" of a tactical shotgun, then you would do well to look at the Nova/Supernova. Chromed Bores, rotory bolts, redy to run hard from the box. If I were going to a gunfight, and offered some overpriced, pretty painted Nighthawk/Vang/Wilson Tactical 870, or a Nova/Supernova Tactical straight from the box, I would take the Nova/Supernova tactical every single time. Modern versatite/flight control wad ammo has given every shotgun made the ability to shoot as tight or tighter groups than any "Vanged" barrel, and it provides that ability consistently and affordably. If I were going back to the gunfight, and given the choice of a Vang Comp barrel with regular wad buckshot, or a plain barrel with versatite/flightcontrol buckshot, I would take the plain barrel with the versatite/flightcontrol buckshot every time. In my experience, Benelli's hate FC. Mine sure does. Vang Comp makes it to where any buckshot will pattern very well. Besides, I like 000. I also like LPA sights. Just because the NH is "pretty" does not mean it won't run like a scalded dog and perform very well. How many "Benelli's" have you run FC through? 1? 10? What choke were you useing? Useing more than MOD will screw up the FC wads performance. In MY experience, 3 Benellis shoot FC buckshot just fine. 3 Benelli M4's using chokes from IC to MOD. IC was best as you noted, but still not very good. I have not tried cyl. yet. Maybe that's the ticket. The first of the 3 I tried was with Hornady TAP, which uses a similar wad as the FC. It was horrible. Nothing hit the 16x24" target at 30 yards. I have not tested my latest M4, though. Maybe I will buy a CYL choke and give it a go. |
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If you want an "anvil" of a tactical shotgun, then you would do well to look at the Supernova. 
Benelli is the King of autoloaders, but they are not the anvil of pump-actions The 870 has the track record, numbers, durability, support, and availability the Benelli Supernova does not. I'm not even including the silly ass Nova. Proper fit is essential to a shotgun. With a stock molded to the receiver, the Nova is a joke. |
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If you want an "anvil" of a tactical shotgun, then you would do well to look at the Supernova.
Benelli is the King of autoloaders, but they are not the anvil of pump-actions The 870 has the track record, numbers, durability, support, and availability the Benelli Supernova does not. I'm not even including the silly ass Nova. Proper fit is essential to a shotgun. With a stock molded to the receiver, the Nova is a joke. So im guessing you own 870's. Gotta protect that investment. As far as the 870, it has quirks. ALot of them. Flexi tab and loading with the lifter down anyone? How about staked in shell stops coming loose and riveted in flimsy ejector that requires a complete re riveting and receiver refinish to replace. The 870 is long in the tooth, and it shows. The Nova/Supernova are modern designs that have none of the issues of the 870,and quite a few advantages over the 870. How much 3 1/2 mag you shot outta that express lately? Among the departments that use them, and the AAR's of the weapons from people who have used them in shotgun courses, there have been no negative reports about function or durability. I understand you like your 870s, however, much like the 1911, there are better options available now. |
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If you want an "anvil" of a tactical shotgun, then you would do well to look at the Supernova.
Benelli is the King of autoloaders, but they are not the anvil of pump-actions The 870 has the track record, numbers, durability, support, and availability the Benelli Supernova does not. I'm not even including the silly ass Nova. Proper fit is essential to a shotgun. With a stock molded to the receiver, the Nova is a joke. So im guessing you own 870's. Gotta protect that investment. As far as the 870, it has quirks. ALot of them. Flexi tab and loading with the lifter down anyone? How about staked in shell stops coming loose and riveted in flimsy ejector that requires a complete re riveting and receiver refinish to replace. The 870 is long in the tooth, and it shows. The Nova/Supernova are modern designs that have none of the issues of the 870,and quite a few advantages over the 870. How much 3 1/2 mag you shot outta that express lately? Among the departments that use them, and the AAR's of the weapons from people who have used them in shotgun courses, there have been no negative reports about function or durability. I understand you like your 870s, however, much like the 1911, there are better options available now. How many LE/Military/security use a 3.5" ?? I have never seen any. Most dont even run the 3" stuff How many 870 receivers have you seen that broke in half? I have seen at least two Nova's The only thing functionally I like on the benellis is the mag cutoff. there may be some advantages to the benelli but it is far from a golden child, especially in the ergo department. I have two 870's that need some work but I still feel the platform is solid and so does almost every law enforcement department in the country as well as our military |
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If you want an "anvil" of a tactical shotgun, then you would do well to look at the Supernova.
Benelli is the King of autoloaders, but they are not the anvil of pump-actions The 870 has the track record, numbers, durability, support, and availability the Benelli Supernova does not. I'm not even including the silly ass Nova. Proper fit is essential to a shotgun. With a stock molded to the receiver, the Nova is a joke. So im guessing you own 870's. Gotta protect that investment. As far as the 870, it has quirks. ALot of them. Flexi tab and loading with the lifter down anyone? How about staked in shell stops coming loose and riveted in flimsy ejector that requires a complete re riveting and receiver refinish to replace. The 870 is long in the tooth, and it shows. The Nova/Supernova are modern designs that have none of the issues of the 870,and quite a few advantages over the 870. How much 3 1/2 mag you shot outta that express lately? Among the departments that use them, and the AAR's of the weapons from people who have used them in shotgun courses, there have been no negative reports about function or durability. I understand you like your 870s, however, much like the 1911, there are better options available now. How many LE/Military/security use a 3.5" ?? I have never seen any. Most dont even run the 3" stuff How many 870 receivers have you seen that broke in half? I have seen at least two Nova's The only thing functionally I like on the benellis is the mag cutoff. there may be some advantages to the benelli but it is far from a golden child, especially in the ergo department. I have two 870's that need some work but I still feel the platform is solid and so does almost every law enforcement department in the country as well as our military Our military uses the 870 in very limited numbers. Mossberg rules the roost in numbers issued, follwed by the Benelli M4, with the 870 lagging FAR behind. Ergos are subjective, I have NO probelems with Benelli ergos, and find them vastly superior to a stock 870. Most departments USED to use the 870, however alot of those guns are being phased out for the patrol rifle. I own examples of both platforms. Hell, my first gun was a Remington 870. However, I refuse to "marry myself" to any gun because of nostalgia reasons or any other emotional reason. I will always look at the gun as a machine that serves a purpose, and pick the best machine for the purpose at hand, period. In my opinion, the Nova/Supernova Series is that platform over the 870. It is ready to go from the box, no "fluff and buff" or special packages from high end custom companies needed. As far as Novas broke in half? Bullshit, show me. If you can, I will rescind calling bullshit. Im guessing you cant.Thats pretty much all I have to say on this one. Opinions vary, YMMV, SMMFD, ICUP,ETC. |
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Coy-greer our military used to have better standards when we used JMB designed shotguns,the 520,525,Mod 37 ,mod 97 and some of the 620's may have seen combat .Even the Mod 1912 has
seen combat . Newer doesn't make it better. And all these shotguns have the liffter that cannot be shortstroked ,and can be slamfired by design.And none of these shotguns has a staked in anything. And they saw service in the jungles ,prisons,and police forces worldwide. Bob |
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I have a 870 wingmaster from 1979. My dad used it for a few hunting trips with the 28" barrel, but once he gave it to me. I changed the barrel to a 18" police barrel. I have shot over 20K through the gun, and not a single part has had to be replaced. Still running on original mag spring.
They are as tough as they come. I personally do not think there is another shotgun that can take and use and abuse like an 870. |
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If you want an "anvil" of a tactical shotgun, then you would do well to look at the Supernova.
Benelli is the King of autoloaders, but they are not the anvil of pump-actions The 870 has the track record, numbers, durability, support, and availability the Benelli Supernova does not. I'm not even including the silly ass Nova. Proper fit is essential to a shotgun. With a stock molded to the receiver, the Nova is a joke. So im guessing you own 870's. Gotta protect that investment. As far as the 870, it has quirks. ALot of them. Most everything does. Flexi tab and loading with the lifter down anyone? Flexi-tab is a "fix" for a quirk, and all the Benelli's I have played with load with the lifter down. Maybe the Nova doesn't, but the M1,2,3,and 4's do. How about staked in shell stops coming loose this doesn't matter. They are held in place with pins, and the staking is only for owner convenience during disasembly. The 590a1 has a very similar arrangement with no staking. It's kindof annoying, but functionally unimportant. and riveted in flimsy ejector How is it flimsy? It's a riveted in block of steel. The spring is only an assist, and I know very few smiths who have had to replace it. that requires a complete re riveting and receiver refinish to replace. Yes, that is a PITA I bet. The 870 is long in the tooth, and it shows. The Nova/Supernova are modern designs that have none of the issues of the 870,and quite a few advantages over the 870. How much 3 1/2 mag you shot outta that express lately? Why? They don't pattern nearly as well as 2.75" Among the departments that use them, and the AAR's of the weapons from people who have used them in shotgun courses, there have been no negative reports about function or durability. Because so few use them. What large departments can you show us that use Nova's? I understand you like your 870s, however, much like the 1911, there are better options available now. I do not see an issue with the 870 thus far. I see things that could be improved, yes, but the Nova has too many steps backward to justify the few it takes forward. I own a Benelli M4, but the above is the way I see it... |
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I understand you like your 870s, however, much like the 1911, there are better options available now. 
Dude, just stop why you are ahead. The Remington 870 is THE pump-action shotgun by which all others are judged. That is why they OWN the pump-action market. Mossberg is the only other real competitor, and they are just a cheaper option. In fact, the 500 was Mossberg's response to make something like the 870 since the 870 buried the competition when it came out including the venerable Winchester Model 12 & Ithaca 37. They had to make it cheaper, and that is why Mossberg is popular & has military contracts. Its not because its better, its cheaper. The Benelli Nova/Supernova are innovative, but they have a very small niche in the pump-action world. I am bias towards the 870, but it has the record it back it up. And investment? I've bought several 870s with hardly any finish for under $200. Absolutely beaten to death, but still worked perfectly expect for a new magazine spring. Like I said, Benelli makes arguably the best autoloading shotguns. However, you are only showing ignorance trying to pimp the Nova/Supernova. |
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The 870 is a great GP shotgun with fantastic durability, yes, but it would not be my first choice as a fighting and competition pump after running one for a while in 3 gun. I don't like the safety location and the small loading port/lifter. Mine and several other expresses I saw in multigun either had problems extracting or had previously needed chamber work to correct extraction problems.
Given equal time and ammunition in a training environment, I can run a Mossberg 500 or a Supernova faster than a remington. The port on the SN is so big, you can't screw it up. The magazine block is also great when you need to adjust loads on the fly without dumping your whole tube. Sure, I could train on an 870 to almost the same standards, but why fight your equipment? |
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I understand you like your 870s, however, much like the 1911, there are better options available now.
Dude, just stop why you are ahead. The Remington 870 is THE pump-action shotgun by which all others are judged. That is why they OWN the pump-action market. Mossberg is the only other real competitor, and they are just a cheaper option. In fact, the 500 was Mossberg's response to make something like the 870 since the 870 buried the competition when it came out including the venerable Winchester Model 12 & Ithaca 37. They had to make it cheaper, and that is why Mossberg is popular & has military contracts. Its not because its better, its cheaper. The Benelli Nova/Supernova are innovative, but they have a very small niche in the pump-action world. I am bias towards the 870, but it has the record it back it up. And investment? I've bought several 870s with hardly any finish for under $200. Absolutely beaten to death, but still worked perfectly expect for a new magazine spring. Like I said, Benelli makes arguably the best autoloading shotguns. However, you are only showing ignorance trying to pimp the Nova/Supernova. Your entire post = Fanboi Bullshit. The only shining example of ignorance is your own. |
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The 870 is a great GP shotgun with fantastic durability, yes, but it would not be my first choice as a fighting and competition pump after running one for a while in 3 gun. I don't like the safety location and the small loading port/lifter. Mine and several other expresses I saw in multigun either had problems extracting or had previously needed chamber work to correct extraction problems. Given equal time and ammunition in a training environment, I can run a Mossberg 500 or a Supernova faster than a remington. The port on the SN is so big, you can't screw it up. The magazine block is also great when you need to adjust loads on the fly without dumping your whole tube. Sure, I could train on an 870 to almost the same standards, but why fight your equipment? Come on man, you know better than to try and inject reality and actual end user experience into an ARFCOM discussion. 
Arfcom Fanboism=" The Nova/Supernova is different, unknown, change! We fear change! It rivals the Old King, the 870. Burn the Nova/Supernova, burn it at the stake!!All hail the old King, all hail the 870!" Oh wait, I forgot something. There must be something to the sucess of the Nova/Supernova, seeing as Remington tried to COPY it and cash in on some of the market share. Nevermind the fact that they failed miserably. Remington 887 anyone? They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. 
WTF ever, im gonna go shoot something. Out! |
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I understand you like your 870s, however, much like the 1911, there are better options available now.
Dude, just stop why you are ahead. The Remington 870 is THE pump-action shotgun by which all others are judged. That is why they OWN the pump-action market. Mossberg is the only other real competitor, and they are just a cheaper option. In fact, the 500 was Mossberg's response to make something like the 870 since the 870 buried the competition when it came out including the venerable Winchester Model 12 & Ithaca 37. They had to make it cheaper, and that is why Mossberg is popular & has military contracts. Its not because its better, its cheaper. The Benelli Nova/Supernova are innovative, but they have a very small niche in the pump-action world. I am bias towards the 870, but it has the record it back it up. And investment? I've bought several 870s with hardly any finish for under $200. Absolutely beaten to death, but still worked perfectly expect for a new magazine spring. Like I said, Benelli makes arguably the best autoloading shotguns. However, you are only showing ignorance trying to pimp the Nova/Supernova. Your entire post = Fanboi Bullshit. The only shining example of ignorance is your own. Yep One sits in damn near every police cruiser in the United States, is in use by many different world militaries, literally revolutionized the shotgun world, completely destroyed the competition, and has over 10,000,000 made. The other sits in damn near every "I need something different because I need to stand out" fanboi safe. I know them fondly because they tell you they use a Benelli about 20 times during a hunt/shoot. Even the Mossberg/Ithaca/Winchester guys roll their eyes. Only a fucking fool would even consider the Nova would be anywhere on par with the 870. A dumbass could argue over the Supernova since Benelli actually remembered that stock fit is one of the most critical components of properly using a shotgun. |
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I understand you like your 870s, however, much like the 1911, there are better options available now.
Dude, just stop why you are ahead. The Remington 870 is THE pump-action shotgun by which all others are judged. That is why they OWN the pump-action market. Mossberg is the only other real competitor, and they are just a cheaper option. In fact, the 500 was Mossberg's response to make something like the 870 since the 870 buried the competition when it came out including the venerable Winchester Model 12 & Ithaca 37. They had to make it cheaper, and that is why Mossberg is popular & has military contracts. Its not because its better, its cheaper. The Benelli Nova/Supernova are innovative, but they have a very small niche in the pump-action world. I am bias towards the 870, but it has the record it back it up. And investment? I've bought several 870s with hardly any finish for under $200. Absolutely beaten to death, but still worked perfectly expect for a new magazine spring. Like I said, Benelli makes arguably the best autoloading shotguns. However, you are only showing ignorance trying to pimp the Nova/Supernova. Your entire post = Fanboi Bullshit. The only shining example of ignorance is your own. Only a fucking fool would even consider the Nova would be anywhere on par with the 870.quote] Says who? You? That statement is the dumbest shit you have typed in this thread thus far. Your emotional investment in your 870's is beyond obvious. You have provided nothing but heated hyperbole and general butthurt responses to what you obviously believe is someone "attacking" your pet shotgun. Its okay, I didnt mean to bruise your weapon invested feelings. Regardless, your still wrong, and anyone who has run both weapons side by side extensivly will readily tell you that. OP, sorry about the thread derail, I didnt relize that there would be a couple of very easily bruised ego's over a shotgun. You have my observations and recommendations. Im done with this thread ETA: Special olympics,internet fighting, winning, still retarted. We are steadily reaching that point. Feel free to cross the finish line if you wish.
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I understand you like your 870s, however, much like the 1911, there are better options available now.
Dude, just stop why you are ahead. The Remington 870 is THE pump-action shotgun by which all others are judged. That is why they OWN the pump-action market. Mossberg is the only other real competitor, and they are just a cheaper option. In fact, the 500 was Mossberg's response to make something like the 870 since the 870 buried the competition when it came out including the venerable Winchester Model 12 & Ithaca 37. They had to make it cheaper, and that is why Mossberg is popular & has military contracts. Its not because its better, its cheaper. The Benelli Nova/Supernova are innovative, but they have a very small niche in the pump-action world. I am bias towards the 870, but it has the record it back it up. And investment? I've bought several 870s with hardly any finish for under $200. Absolutely beaten to death, but still worked perfectly expect for a new magazine spring. Like I said, Benelli makes arguably the best autoloading shotguns. However, you are only showing ignorance trying to pimp the Nova/Supernova. Your entire post = Fanboi Bullshit. The only shining example of ignorance is your own. Only a fucking fool would even consider the Nova would be anywhere on par with the 870.quote] Says who? You? That statement is the dumbest shit you have typed in this thread thus far. Your emotional investment in your 870's is beyond obvious. You have provided nothing but heated hyperbole and general butthurt responses to what you obviously believe is someone "attacking" your pet shotgun. Its okay, I didnt mean to bruise your weapon invested feelings. Regardless, your still wrong, and anyone who has run both weapons side by side extensivly will readily tell you that. OP, sorry about the thread derail, I didnt relize that there would be a couple of very easily bruised ego's over a shotgun. You have my observations and recommendations. Im done with this thread ETA: Special olympics,internet fighting, winning, still retarted. We are steadily reaching that point. Feel free to cross the finish line if you wish.
Who issues the nova? Who has run it extensively in the real world? |
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I've never been all that much into shotguns. I've never used a Nova/Supernova, so I'm not adding anything to, or taking a position in, that argument. I had an old, beat to shit, 870P issued to me a while ago. The thing looks a wreck on the outside and the internals have practically no parkerization or blueing (or whatever they do to the internal parts) left on them; they're all shiny. I have no guess as to this weapon's round count or maintenance record. I do know that the damn thing runs like a top. It got me interested enough in shotguns that I take it out now and shoot it sometimes in place of shooting my M4/ARs because I enjoy it so much. It got me interested enough in shotguns that I just ordered last week my own 870P from Buds, of which I hope to take possession sometime this week upcoming.
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Well this thread certainly took a crap
As some one who owned a Nova and still owns 870s I will say this. I did prefer the location of the slide release on the Nova. That was the only thing on the gun that was truly better than my 870P. In every other aspect, I find the 870 to be a better gun. |
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As far as Novas broke in half? Bullshit, show me. If you can, I will rescind calling bullshit. Im guessing you cant. You would be right about me showing you. I dont randomly take pics of the broken guns that come in for repair
First one was a guy duckhunting and fell back and leaned on the gun. Broke in front of where the stock starts. Last one was a couple days ago. Broke right where the pistol grip starts. If it is still at the store I will try to get pictures but I dont know if that is cool with the boss or not. Bottom line is I dont really give a shit if you believe me but if I have seen two break then there has to be more out there. The problem is that on a conventional gun similar damage just breaks the stock but on the Novas you have to get a new gun |
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I understand you like your 870s, however, much like the 1911, there are better options available now.
Dude, just stop why you are ahead. The Remington 870 is THE pump-action shotgun by which all others are judged. That is why they OWN the pump-action market. Mossberg is the only other real competitor, and they are just a cheaper option. In fact, the 500 was Mossberg's response to make something like the 870 since the 870 buried the competition when it came out including the venerable Winchester Model 12 & Ithaca 37. They had to make it cheaper, and that is why Mossberg is popular & has military contracts. Its not because its better, its cheaper. The Benelli Nova/Supernova are innovative, but they have a very small niche in the pump-action world. I am bias towards the 870, but it has the record it back it up. And investment? I've bought several 870s with hardly any finish for under $200. Absolutely beaten to death, but still worked perfectly expect for a new magazine spring. Like I said, Benelli makes arguably the best autoloading shotguns. However, you are only showing ignorance trying to pimp the Nova/Supernova. Your entire post = Fanboi Bullshit. The only shining example of ignorance is your own. Only a fucking fool would even consider the Nova would be anywhere on par with the 870.quote] Says who? You? That statement is the dumbest shit you have typed in this thread thus far. Your emotional investment in your 870's is beyond obvious. You have provided nothing but heated hyperbole and general butthurt responses to what you obviously believe is someone "attacking" your pet shotgun. Its okay, I didnt mean to bruise your weapon invested feelings. Regardless, your still wrong, and anyone who has run both weapons side by side extensivly will readily tell you that. OP, sorry about the thread derail, I didnt relize that there would be a couple of very easily bruised ego's over a shotgun. You have my observations and recommendations. Im done with this thread ETA: Special olympics,internet fighting, winning, still retarted. We are steadily reaching that point. Feel free to cross the finish line if you wish.
You can take your ball and leave the thread. As I said, the 870 has the track record to back up its reputation. Once again, only a fucking fool would try to debate it is not "the pump action shotgun". If it wasn't so good it would not have buried the Winchester 12, and there wouldn't be so many copies of it. The Nova & Supernova don't have anything going for them. Simple as that. Like I said, Benelli does make the best autoloading shotguns, but there pumps are no way in league with the 870 (or 500/590/37). |
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Your entire post = Fanboi Bullshit. And yet you've come in to a thread about the 870 and promoted the Nova.. doesn't that make you a fanbois too, just a little? and isn't that a bit like the Tea Pot calling the Kettle black?
Anyway, both the 870 and the Nova are great shotguns, but it comes down to different strokes for different folks to throw a second cliche in here. I've handled and shot both. My preference lies with the 870 but I don't discredit the Nova any. Shame the FP6 didn't take off, as to me it's got that product improved 870 feel to it. |
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